Sony 2020 TV line-up, with surprise news

[Robert Zohn]

What Panasonic did is greatly increase the overall peak luminance of LG Display's OLED panel. Panasonic engineered and added heatsinks in the backside of the OLED module to dissipate heat so they can drive the panel harder.

Don't think Vincent was also comparing LG's OLED in this video.

[Darkmninya]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

What Panasonic did is greatly increase the overall peak luminance of LG Display's OLED panel. Panasonic engineered and added heatsinks in the backside of the OLED module to dissipate heat so they can drive the panel harder.

Don't think Vincent was also comparing LG's OLED in this video.

That's only on gz2000. Gz950 doesn't have that added brightness.

[Robert Zohn]

Thank you @cirik and @Darkmninya. You have proven the point of Sony's A9G presenting Dolby Vision darker than LG's E9. It's minimal, but LG is brighter and I'll try to reproduce that in our showroom and add this to my list of things to discuss with Sony's engineers.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thank you @cirik and @Darkmninya. You have proven the point of Sony's A9G presenting Dolby Vision darker than LG's E9. It's minimal, but LG is brighter and I'll try to reproduce that in our showroom and add this to my list of things to discuss with Sony's engineers.

Sony's TV team should get fired for pure incompetence. Maybe that is a little harsh, but seriously how in the world can they leave off HDMI 2.1 off their top of the line OLEDs? When:

a) - Sony is releasing the Playstation 5 this year, which is supposed to utilize many of the HDMI 2.1 features such as VRR and 4K/120 (granted most games wont approach that framerate). How could the TV team have not gotten the memo?

b) - every other major manufacturer will have it ready to in their TVs. You would think that Sony would be pushing HDMI 2.1 harder than all other manufacturers SINCE THEY'RE THE ONES RELEASING A GAMING CONSOLE that would take advantage of those features. But they have completely ceded that to LG, Samsung and now Vizio!

I realize that the Sony's OLEDs aren't aimed at gamers, but there is no doubt of the advantages that OLED gaming provides and many hardcore gamers won't even consider a Sony OLED due to the lack of that feature.

It seems that so far the only Sony TV with HDMI 2.1 will be the 900H.

[Nothing371]

So is there no true Z9D successor? Sony has just done away with the high-end LCDs (besides the outrageous 8K model)? That's really sad. Nothing since then even gets as bright as my 930E. I'd recommend the 950H to most new buyers then, but sheesh. Things haven't really changed or improved much at all since 2016. Plus that whole top end of LCDs is simply gone.

Originally Posted by MerrickG

Sony's TV team should get fired for pure incompetence. Maybe that is a little harsh, but seriously how in the world can they leave off HDMI 2.1 off their top of the line OLEDs? When:

a) - Sony is releasing the Playstation 5 this year, which is supposed to utilize many of the HDMI 2.1 features such as VRR and 4K/120 (granted most games wont approach that framerate). How could the TV team have not gotten the memo?

b) - every other major manufacturer will have it ready to in their TVs. You would think that Sony would be pushing HDMI 2.1 harder than all other manufacturers SINCE THEY'RE THE ONES RELEASING A GAMING CONSOLE that would take advantage of those features. But they have completely ceded that to LG, Samsung and now Vizio!

I realize that the Sony's OLEDs aren't aimed at gamers, but there is no doubt of the advantages that OLED gaming provides and many hardcore gamers won't even consider a Sony OLED due to the lack of that feature.

It seems that so far the only Sony TV with HDMI 2.1 will be the 900H.

Yeah, it's amazing to me how Sony isn't including HDMI 2.1 on their LCDs. Especially when the PS5 is coming out this fall like you said. The truth is however that these new consoles won't be running any brand new AAA games at > 4K60 anyways. Their GPUs aren't going to be able to come even close. RTX 2080 Ti's can't even do 4K60 in modern titles. But the main problem is that the Sony TVs aren't going to make for high-end gaming monitors like the LG sets will.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

So is there no true Z9D successor? Sony has just done away with the high-end LCDs (besides the outrageous 8K model)? That's really sad. Nothing since then even gets as bright as my 930E. I'd recommend the 950H to most new buyers then, but sheesh. Things haven't really changed or improved much at all since 2016. Plus that whole top end of LCDs is simply gone.


Yeah, it's amazing to me how Sony isn't including HDMI 2.1 on their LCDs. Especially when the PS5 is coming out this fall like you said. The truth is however that these new consoles won't be running any brand new AAA games at > 4K60 anyways. Their GPUs aren't going to be able to come even close. RTX 2080 Ti's can't even do 4K60 in modern titles. But the main problem is that the Sony TVs aren't going to make for high-end gaming monitors like the LG sets will.

This year also has the Z8H, which will be a comparatively more affordable 8K option. I'd guess it'll perform something similar to the Z9F. Comes in 75" and 85".

Sony's high-end LCDs for 2020 are:

- Z9G (carries over from 2019)
- Z8H
- X950H

If we must compare to 2017's lineup, then the Z9G is the closest thing to the Z9D, the Z8H = X940E and the X950H = X930E.

But of course there are several essential differences between that year and this year. The nomenclature is a bit different, obviously. Performance-wise the older sets prioritized the best possible contrast and blooming control, while these have given some of that up and are going for improved viewing angles instead.

[Nothing371]

viewing angles...

I can't believe that's a thing. Yeah, no interest in these 75", 85", or 98" crazy 8K sets at astronomical pricing. I'm interested in a true 65" Z9D successor. The Z9F was garbage in reviews, and it seems like that class of Sony televisions just kind of evaporated...

Sony is probably going to interpret the Z9F as 'poor sales'. But it was an inferior set with downgraded performance and that's why people didn't buy it. Like you have the 950G, which isn't any better than my TV, and then there's just this large gap of empty space unless you want to graduate up into one of their expensive OLEDs. Which is not what everyone wants.

[Robert Zohn]

Sony's A9H Master Series OLED TV will have HDMI 2.1.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sony's A9H Master Series OLED TV will have HDMI 2.1.

I see. All OLEDs should have it. The A8 series is now priced reasonably well.

[Robert Zohn]

I ^ agree, but please remember that HDMI 2.1 is more about 8K than anything we'll need on a 4K TV. The gaming features that are in the HDMI 2.1 spec are already included in Sony's HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 2020 TVs.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I ^ agree, but please remember that HDMI 2.1 is more about 8K than anything we'll need on a 4K TV. The gaming features that are in the HDMI 2.1 spec are already included in Sony's HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 2020 TVs.

HDMI 2.1 offers many things beyond 8K for gamers. It offers 4K/120 Hz at 10-bit color HDR @ 4:4:4 or RGB, while HDMI 2.0 is limited to 4K/60 at 4:2:2 or 8-bit RGB. 4K/120 Hz with 10-bit HDR 4:4:4 requires pretty close to 40GBps, which is well beyond the bandwidth of HDMI 2.0.

HDMI 2.0 VRR is limited to a 40 - 60 fps range.

[rroeder]

Overall I'd say the DV titles I've seen might be a little more dim but there are examples of DV titles that are just as bright or brighter, and HDR10 titles that are dim as well.

So is it the TV or the mastering of the discs?

[Robert Zohn]

Sorry it's my mistake, not all of Sony's Dolby Vision settings are locked out. Here's a good explanation and work around to make Dolby Vision brighter.

So they are not locked but there is no way to calibrate or validate DV since Sony uses Profile 5 and there are not any test pattern generators sending that DV mode yet. Here's my calibrators suggests to brighten-up Dolby Vision content.

Select Dolby Vision Dark in the user menu and the content will look slightly brighter and closer to the LG by setting the Advanced Contrast Enhancer ACE to Low in the picture mode menu when DV content is playing. Once set it will apply to all inputs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sorry it's my mistake, not all of Sony's Dolby Vision settings are locked out. Here's a good explanation and work around to make Dolby Vision brighter.

So they are not locked but there is no way to calibrate or validate DV since Sony uses Profile 5 and there are not any test pattern generators sending that DV mode yet. Here's my calibrators suggests to brighten-up Dolby Vision content.

Select Dolby Vision Dark in the user menu and the content will look slightly brighter and closer to the LG by setting the Advanced Contrast Enhancer ACE to Low in the picture mode menu when DV content is playing. Once set it will apply to all inputs.

I was told the same thing by Sony to rectify the DV grey bars problem, to use the ACE. Only I hate automated contrast adjustment modes because they're always playing catch-up, they just don't react quickly enough to changes in the content so by the time it's altered the contrast to suit one shot it might've cut back to another shot and, true to form, ACE causes noticeable 'pumping' of the brightness on the ZD9. So that's a no from me.

I did try upping the contrast which in turn boosts luminance, but above level 90 - which is the default on the menu slider, though it was set to 100 when Dobly was first activated - then it clips highlight detail more and more. 90 is good for resolving ~4000 nits (verified using DV test patterns) but I can't be arsed to keep adjusting it so I leave it on 91. But with slightly duller luminance in DV comes slightly duller colour volume, so I put Live Color on Low to counteract it. And to correct the grey black bars I set Black Level to 49, it shaves off a tiny fraction of black detail but it's worth it.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I was told the same thing by Sony to rectify the DV grey bars problem, to use the ACE. Only I hate automated contrast adjustment modes because they're always playing catch-up, they just don't react quickly enough to changes in the content so by the time it's altered the contrast to suit one shot it might've cut back to another shot and, true to form, ACE causes noticeable 'pumping' of the brightness on the ZD9. So that's a no from me.

I did try upping the contrast which in turn boosts luminance, but above level 90 - which is the default on the menu slider, though it was set to 100 when Dobly was first activated - then it clips highlight detail more and more. 90 is good for resolving ~4000 nits (verified using DV test patterns) but I can't be arsed to keep adjusting it so I leave it on 91. But with slightly duller luminance in DV comes slightly duller colour volume, so I put Live Color on Low to counteract it. And to correct the grey black bars I set Black Level to 49, it shaves off a tiny fraction of black detail but it's worth it.

I've been reading about that grey bar issue for the longest, but now that I've watched a couple of DV titles myself, I must say I did not notice it. Is it with all DV content or particular titles? Also, I was under the impression it had been resolved a couple of firmware updates ago?

[Geoff D]

All DV content. And nothing changed in the firmware. Watching any kind of normally lit content it won't stand out, but the darker the content gets the more it becomes apparent, and on full field black i.e. a fade or cut to black then it's very apparent when you watch in darkness (no ambient light) as I do, the whole screen stays up instead of dimming down to off. Not every piece of content goes down to total black, true, but when the HDR10 layer on the same disc dims the screen down to off just fine then it's clearly a problem with the actual DV implementation.

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

All DV content. And nothing changed in the firmware. Watching any kind of normally lit content it won't stand out, but the darker the content gets the more it becomes apparent, and on full field black i.e. a fade or cut to black then it's very apparent when you watch in darkness (no ambient light) as I do, the whole screen stays up instead of dimming down to off. Not every piece of content goes down to total black, true, but when the HDR10 layer on the same disc dims the screen down to off just fine then it's clearly a problem with the actual DV implementation.

Is that just with your UB820 or other sources too? With my X700 and Apple TV it's content specific. A lot of studios are just implementing DV incorrectly, but there are plenty of DV movies/shows where I do get complete black (dimmed to off) with the black level at 50 on my Z9D.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bytor

Is that just with your UB820 or other sources too? With my X700 and Apple TV it's content specific. A lot of studios are just implementing DV incorrectly, but there are plenty of DV movies/shows where I do get complete black (dimmed to off) with the black level at 50 on my Z9D.

I don't use other sources like streaming. If you come across a DV disc that dims down to off on a black screen (viewed in a dark room, as ambient lighting is crucial) with the above settings then I'd love to try it for myself.

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't use other sources like streaming. If you come across a DV disc that dims down to off on a black screen (viewed in a dark room, as ambient lighting is crucial) with the above settings then I'd love to try it for myself.

I tried a few DV discs last night on the X700 and I had to change the black level to 49 on all of them to get them to dim to off. And I just got Doctor Sleep on disc so compared the theatrical DV disc to the theatrical DV stream. I needed 49 to get full black on the X700 but 50 did it for the Apple TV on both the Vudu and iTunes stream I tried. I assume your Oppo 203 also needs to be at 49? I wonder if that's the case for all the DV players out there.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bytor

I tried a few DV discs last night on the X700 and I had to change the black level to 49 on all of them to get them to dim to off. And I just got Doctor Sleep on disc so compared the theatrical DV disc to the theatrical DV stream. I needed 49 to get full black on the X700 but 50 did it for the Apple TV on both the Vudu and iTunes stream I tried. I assume your Oppo 203 also needs to be at 49? I wonder if that's the case for all the DV players out there.

Thanks for checking. It's the same on the OPPO and the 820.