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Old 06-21-2020, 11:11 PM   #81
sfmarine sfmarine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnoyes View Post
I use my Oppo on a daily basis and I've only seen a few discs ever do this. FWIW I took the disc out and gave it a good wipe and was able to replay the same scene with no issues. Would be a bummer if my Oppo is fading, though. I don't even know if they're still servicing the 203...
I was also surprised to learn they were still servicing them. I would imagine not for much longer. It was a major bummer for me to send it in. It was the king but no more as it failed after very low use. I only use it for 4K films.

Back to topic....when can we expect a stand-alone release?
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:01 AM   #82
Kyle15 Kyle15 is offline
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The screens on Caps-a-holic look a lil blown-out...
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:36 AM   #83
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle15 View Post
The screens on Caps-a-holic look a lil blown-out...
Yes, because they just slap on a generic tone map and call it a day. I'll gladly use their stuff to look at detail, but range? Nope.
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Old 06-23-2020, 02:41 PM   #84
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is offline
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2006 restoration in detail:

This has been used since 2006 till today for the UHD disc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1905...ew?usp=sharing

Last edited by MisterXDTV; 06-23-2020 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 06-23-2020, 02:50 PM   #85
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
2004 restoration in detail:

This has been used since the 40th Anniversary DVD till today for the UHD disc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1905...ew?usp=sharing
Oh that's so cool. Thanks! What book is that from?
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Old 06-23-2020, 02:56 PM   #86
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Oh that's so cool. Thanks! What book is that from?
https://www.amazon.it/Grain-Pixel-Ar.../dp/B005SQFDPS

Correction: this restoration is from 2006 not 2004

Last edited by MisterXDTV; 06-23-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 06-23-2020, 03:20 PM   #87
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
https://www.amazon.it/Grain-Pixel-Ar.../dp/B005SQFDPS

Correction: this restoration is from 2006 not 2004
I've had a PDF of that book for ages
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Old 06-23-2020, 04:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
2006 restoration in detail:

This has been used since 2006 till today for the UHD disc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1905...ew?usp=sharing
Absolutely fascinating read. Thank you so much for sharing it!
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Old 07-02-2020, 08:42 PM   #89
OutOfBoose OutOfBoose is offline
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So what's the consensus on this one? Is it blown-out?
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Old 07-02-2020, 10:49 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBoose View Post
So what's the consensus on this one? Is it blown-out?
A couple stragglers say otherwise, but the consensus says No.
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Old 07-02-2020, 11:44 PM   #91
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBoose View Post
So what's the consensus on this one? Is it blown-out?
Good lord no. Forget how the range looks in the caps (and not just for this UHD) and definitely don't listen to anyone who says it looks more blown out on their TV.
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Old 07-03-2020, 10:24 PM   #92
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Dr Strangelove (1962) 4K HDR10 review, US UHD disc. HDR metadata: P3-D65 colour primaries. Mastering display levels: 4000/0.005 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 10,000 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 563 nits.

Strangelove comes to us via the 2004 4K restoration carried out by Sony using intermediate elements because the OG negative had been destroyed long ago. I thought that the UHD of Lawrence of Arabia suffered a little for using the 2012 restoration of that one, so surely a restoration of Strangelove that's twice as old (16 years vs Lawrence's 8) and not even using camera negative should come off far worse on UHD? Well...no.

It's worth saying straight away that the actual spatial detail in 4K is only resolving a fraction more than what the 1080p BD does - not surprising, given the source materials available - and that the HDR highlight range is similarly constricted, resolving little more than what the SDR BD is already very capable of handling (the Sony and Criterion Blu-rays are interchangeable in these regards). Okay, so what does the UHD do better then? The thing about the 1080p BD, and this even dates all the way back to the 2004 DVD edition of the 4K remaster which some people may recall was criticised for being too dark (my old DVD Debate review is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20041112...ticle&sid=4883, note that even 16 years ago I was comparing highlight information between old and new versions, although the screencaps are long gone ), is that drawing out all that highlight information comes at the expense of a rather low brightness level that has great blacks but tends to eat up shadows, while the SDR highlights lack any kind of impactful luminance and so the contrast feels quite soft and dull. But the physical brightness of the HDR gives a new dimension to the crisp black and white imagery, literally.

Normally I'm the first one to stick the boot in when Sony applies the HDR Light Cannon™ to whatever catalogue movie because I no longer feel that this approach is right for older stuff shot on film, but here it works like gangbusters. More by dumb ****ing luck than judgement, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Why does it work so well? Because black and white is predominantly about contrast, about that interplay between light and dark, and what the UHD does so brilliantly is allow the deep blacks to remain in place while giving the luminance of the brighter parts a chance to break out; as I said before, we're not getting any more highlight detail but the intensity of the highlights transforms the perception of contrast, the lighting looks sharper but moodier at the same time. The movie makes use of a fair bit of top lighting and in HDR the effect is heightened, if you'll pardon the pun. And I love how punchy the A-Bomb montage looks at the end. Even the blacks themselves have a slightly lower gamma than the SDR so you can see into the shadows a little better, all without comprising that rich low end. If the older open matte transfer was far too bright and the DVD/BD versions of the 4K transfer a touch too dark (though you get used to it), then the UHD is just right. If your tone mapping is on form then you should not be losing ANY highlight detail vs the BD, nor should the average brightness be dimmer than the SDR (when the latter is viewed at the intended ~100 nits, anyway).

As mentioned, the outright resolution doesn't seem to be greatly advanced over the 1080p BD, if at all, but in motion the one thing that sets them apart is the grain. Yes, again, this is usually an aspect that I dislike about Sony's HDR treatment because all that brightness amps up the grain way beyond where it should've ever gone but, again, here it just works. The grain looks so tight and sharp, even for coming off of intermediate elements, and where it tends to fall off in the BD the UHD just keeps on going. It never swarms or overwhelms the image mind you, it just gives it a constant sense of texture that makes it feel so much sharper in motion than the BD.

Something else that gives the UHD image more integrity over the BD is how the grain manages to dither the image more successfully. Pyoko pointed out in his comparisons that the BD has a posterised look to the gradations and by god he's right, there's a kind of solarised feel to people's faces where the mid tones hit the shadows, even the grain in the title sequence has a kind of two-tone look to it and there's some outright banding during the A-Bomb montage. I mean, I ****ing gushed over the Criterion BD when I reviewed it for The Digital Fix (when re-reading it I secretly hoped I'd mentioned something about the gradations but nope, gushing it is: https://www.thedigitalfix.com/film/b...on-collection/) and I suppose it was easier to chalk up any slight imperfections to the usage of lower generation elements, but compared to the UHD there's no contest, and not just with a few still frames but in motion throughout. That solarised look is banished on the UHD, the gradations are superbly handled and it's got a more organic feel than the slightly electronic countenance of the BD.

Another concern of mine with Sony's HDR approach is how the more pronounced grain becomes trickier to compress than it otherwise should be, but it's handled impressively here. Perhaps it's because there's no colour component bouncing around in there, or that not a lot of the movie takes place in bright exteriors where grain shows up the most, but even so, hectic sequences like the attack on Burpelson AFB (still some of the best combat footage ever filmed for a dramatic production IMO) show no signs of the compression creaking under the strain. The one time it looks fractionally less wholesome is in the scene with Miss Foreign Affairs answering Turgidson's phone, it seems to get a bit chunkier there but it could well be the source.

From older viewings of this transfer I can recall seeing some restoration artefacts, like buzzing columns of noise where scratches were painted over, especially in the stock footage, but the UHD looks wonderfully competent in that regard. There are still a few blips of dirt but what I found interesting was that the UHD has been cleaned up a bit more vs the 2009 Sony BD, I know that the book with the restoration notes said this but upon checking the Criterion BD that same clean up was in evidence, like here with Miss Foreign Affairs' face getting bisected by a massive scratch that's gone in the UHD and Criterion:

2009 BD

[Show spoiler]


UHD

[Show spoiler]


I'm going to do something I don't usually do and mention the audio, specifically the OG mono track. Now, with the hefty caveat that I'm only listening with TV speakers (long story short: partial hearing loss in one ear, tinnitus, so home cinema is just too fatiguing on my ears) there are some marked differences between the mono as heard on the Sony 2009 BD and Criterion BDs and the mono as heard on the UHD. The 2009 and the Criterion both have a very 'bright' presentation that sounds quite strident at times (which I noted in both of my previous DVD and BD reviews of Strangelove, back when I was using an AVR with speakers etc etc, so that's not just the TV speakers doing it ), and although the Criterion's uncompressed PCM 1.0 encoding is slightly cleaner than the compressed Dolby Digital 2.0 of the Sony 2009 they're clearly the same source.

The first thing that struck me about the DTS-HD MA 2.0 mono of the UHD is how much lower in volume it is than the previous mono mix, and yet even when turned up to the same level it sounds fuller and way less harsh, with a notable reduction in sibilance and more of a percussive 'snap' to the gunfire, rather than it just being loud for loudness' sake. I had a feeling that Sony might've remastered the OG audio for this release after the amazing job they did with the mono on the Easy Rider UHD (which sounded much better than the mono as presented on the previous Sony and Criterion BDs), and I believe that to be the case. But hey, that's just the opinion of old cloth ears here, compare the UHD's mono to the 2009 BD or the Criterion and see what you think.

To sum up, I think Strangelove is a triumph on UHD. Not the cleanest, sharpest, showiest bit of 4K content ever, as such it would be very easy to take a look and say "it's the same as the BD", but the refinements to the grain and the lighting are most welcome and once again show that 4K HDR can be a true friend to black and white material. The film is of course a darkly satirical masterpiece that will never go out of fashion as long as we humans are still ****ing and fighting.

Last edited by Geoff D; 05-10-2025 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 07-03-2020, 11:14 PM   #93
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Thanks Geoff.
Next week is my big week of watching the whole collection. Can’t wait.

I spent much of this week pondering on a new shelf for my discs as I was running out of room. Pondering, then acquiring, putting the flat-pack together and then spending hours on end sorting the films - you all know how long these things take!
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Old 07-03-2020, 11:19 PM   #94
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Great write-up as always, Geoff! I got mine from eBay last week and have yet to pop it in.
Will be changing that soon!
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:27 AM   #95
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Nice review Geoff! I don't remember making any mental note of the odd-looking grade on the BD either at the time, but the gradation on the UHD really is so much more natural. I believe doing a new digital restoration at some point would be worthwhile—even with the suboptimal elements, but this was still quite nice.

My OLED however did not like this disc at all and I had to lower the light output to almost half the standard value before it stopped producing funky grain/posterization in the highlights.
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:40 PM   #96
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Sold.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:06 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyoko View Post
Nice review Geoff! I don't remember making any mental note of the odd-looking grade on the BD either at the time, but the gradation on the UHD really is so much more natural. I believe doing a new digital restoration at some point would be worthwhile—even with the suboptimal elements, but this was still quite nice.

My OLED however did not like this disc at all and I had to lower the light output to almost half the standard value before it stopped producing funky grain/posterization in the highlights.
On the ZD9 the highlights looked perfect, and despite the silly 10k nit MaxCLL - your analysis showed that it's far lower in practice, albeit still into the thousands of nits - I didn't need any outside intervention like the HDR Optimiser to resolve them. When set to follow the PQ EOTF my TV can output about 1800 nits peak for luminance but colour starts clipping well before that, at around 1200 nits or so, and I think it's what makes many of Sony's Light Cannon™ grades look so harsh and 'pushed' in the skies, the grain looking ugly and blocky, because I'm seeing the brightness but not the colour that would be 'filling in' the grain. But on Strangelove there's no colour to start with and the grain looks perfick, even in the highlights.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:22 PM   #98
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Is the mono soundtrack the original soundtrack, or is it a fold down?
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:25 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andantelise View Post
Is the mono soundtrack the original soundtrack, or is it a fold down?
Original.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:31 PM   #100
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Very glad I don't need to buy the overpriced Criterion BD since I own this from the Columbia Classics Volume 1 set. I heavily prefer original cinematic audio and don't give a toss about remixes. Agreed DVDBeaver and Mr. tooze is a joke but as others mentioned I'm there for bits of information more than his lazy screenshots. Very delighted to see Criterion are being overshadowed by other companies. They're not the be-all-end-all company out there.
Might've mentioned in another thread, I'm ecstatic I wanted all 6 titles from the Volume 1 set. Hope it's the same for Volume 2.
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