The Shining (1980)

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by shogun123

Kubrick appreciated that people in Europe are generally more intelligent and more able to think for themselves than people in the US, this is why Kubrick chose Britain as his home, he was among more people that were on his level.

Actually he choose Britain as his home because he wanted to live in close proximity to a suitable movie studio. LA had the studios, but he didn't like living in LA. He liked living on Long Island, but there were no movie studios to his standards on the east coast. Britain fit the bill as he liked the lifestyle there and the studios were close and very advanced.

As for the European cut of THE SHINING somehow being "more intelligent", how exactly? It completely eliminates Jack's history of alcoholism, one of the main driving points of his growing madness. No, he cut THE SHINING for purely commercial reasons. The cuts are even placed in such a way that he was able to cut the film without remixing the sound.

Chris

[CM Putnam]

The European version is the better version. I'm from the US so there's no European bias here. I find the "extra" scenes in US version completely slow the film down and do nothing to enhance it. A perfect example of this is in the European version the doctor scene at the beginning is cut out. The film cuts from Danny's vision in the bathroom to the drive to the overlook and of course the infamous skeleton scene has been removed.

For me the main reason it's better is it eliminates all scenes of them watching TV and greatly eliminates any scenes of the outside world. Now I know that more Kubrick should be considered better. But this is a case of less is more. The European version is not the result of censorship but was made by the artist himself. None of the added scenes in the US version are necessary to the plot.

The US version is still a great movie. But in my opinion the European version is a masterwork and should be seen by any fans of Kubrick or the film itself.

[shogun123]

I always knew that Torrance was an alcoholic and this was way before reading the novel or watching the US cut, it is blindingly obvious. The extra scenes in the US cut do nothing but slow down the film and spell things out that do not need spelling out.

[eiknarf]

Oh... i love when Wendy tells the visiting female doctor that some good came after injuring Danny's arm: That Jack promised never to drink again. Jack "hasn't had any alcohol in five months".

Then later Jack also tells Lloyd it's been "five miserable months on the wagon" - but follows that telling Lloyd that he accidentally injured Danny's arm "three goddamn years ago!"


This huge mismatch of time is very difficult to pass off as a script error. Combine this with the revelation that it was Jack who strangled Danny in the Overlook and a simple truth is revealed … Jack Torrance was and still is a violently abusive father...

[Ned Schneebly]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

yeah. Never knowing there was a shorter version, I went out of my way to watch it... just to see.

No way is the shorter version worth owning!

The full length/USA version is stellar! I need every minute.

Amen

[jdc115]

It always amuses me that this thread seems to die for long periods but every time it comes back to life it soon becomes the US version vs the European version.

I just watch the Blu-ray 2 nights ago as this thread just reminded me it was time to rewatch it. I think the transfer is quite good, I doubt we would see any rescan of it.

It was disappointing that they did recently do a 4K scan of Clockwork Orange but they did a re-release of of the original BD scan.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Oh... i love when Wendy tells the visiting female doctor that some good came after injuring Danny's arm: That Jack promised never to drink again. Jack "hasn't had any alcohol in five months".

Then later Jack also tells Lloyd it's been "five miserable months on the wagon" - but follows that telling Lloyd that he accidentally injured Danny's arm "three goddamn years ago!"


This huge mismatch of time is very difficult to pass off as a script error. Combine this with the revelation that it was Jack who strangled Danny in the Overlook and a simple truth is revealed … Jack Torrance was and still is a violently abusive father...

Exactly- AND the time discrepancy drives home the fact that Wendy is an enabler. She told him she'd leave him if he ever drank again, but he dislocated Danny's shoulder "three goddamn years ago" and hasn't had any alcohol in "five months", so obviously he fell off the wagon at least once already and she still stayed with him. This is completely lost in the European cut, which was done strictly for commercial reasons.

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by CM Putnam

The European version is the better version. I'm from the US so there's no European bias here. I find the "extra" scenes in US version completely slow the film down and do nothing to enhance it. A perfect example of this is in the European version the doctor scene at the beginning is cut out. The film cuts from Danny's vision in the bathroom to the drive to the overlook and of course the infamous skeleton scene has been removed.

For me the main reason it's better is it eliminates all scenes of them watching TV and greatly eliminates any scenes of the outside world. Now I know that more Kubrick should be considered better. But this is a case of less is more. The European version is not the result of censorship but was made by the artist himself. None of the added scenes in the US version are necessary to the plot.

The US version is still a great movie. But in my opinion the European version is a masterwork and should be seen by any fans of Kubrick or the film itself.

Well for starters, the U.S. version doesn't have "added scenes", they were there to begin with. The European version exists solely because Kubrick wanted the film to be a bigger hit, so he cut it down to try and make it faster paced and more commercial. You can pretend that he cut it down because European audiences are "more sophisticated" all you want, but the fact is it was an entirely commercially-minded decision.

Chris

[zbinks]

Originally Posted by cash_black

I just want an edition that includes the better shorter version that played in the European market

Unless I'm mistaken, most of the European Blu-Rays ARE the shorter, European cut of the film.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by zbinks

Unless I'm mistaken, most of the European Blu-Rays ARE the shorter, European cut of the film.

All of them are. The EU market hasn't gotten the longer version on BD as far as I know (not even sure if they did on DVD either). It really would be nice if Warner put out a definitive set with both cuts included. I think that can certainly be accomplished using seamless branching.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

I'm sure it's already been discussed, but how does the commentary work for the European cut? Do they just omit commentary from all the cut scenes?

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Well for starters, the U.S. version doesn't have "added scenes", they were there to begin with. The European version exists solely because Kubrick wanted the film to be a bigger hit, so he cut it down to try and make it faster paced and more commercial. You can pretend that he cut it down because European audiences are "more sophisticated" all you want, but the fact is it was an entirely commercially-minded decision.

Chris

Was it cut then to simply cut the running time down to make it more appealing for cinemas (so that they can get through more films etc) ?. Im sure Ive read something about this happening a lot back in the day. Is this the case with The Shining though?

As I said before, Im so used to the European cut that the US cut is my favourite - the 'extra' bits always surprise me! Im not interested in buying the European cut again or watching it - The US cut of The Shining was one of my first blu-ray buys..a must for me!

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

Was it cut then to simply cut the running time down to make it more appealing for cinemas (so that they can get through more films etc) ?. Im sure Ive read something about this happening a lot back in the day. Is this the case with The Shining though?!

Its happening right now with The Grandmaster.. but in this case its the american audience that gets an edited down version/shorter.

The orig Asian version is 130 minutes - while the edited version playing in the usa is 108 minutes - one if the reasons; so the theaters can get an extra run on its screens.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Well for starters, the U.S. version doesn't have "added scenes", they were there to begin with. The European version exists solely because Kubrick wanted the film to be a bigger hit, so he cut it down to try and make it faster paced and more commercial. You can pretend that he cut it down because European audiences are "more sophisticated" all you want, but the fact is it was an entirely commercially-minded decision.

Chris

Exactly.
The USA version doesn't have extra scenes... the European version in missing scenes, plain and simple.

[TheAnimeLegend]

I didn't know that there was an extended version of the film? I hope that one of these days that whenever they re-release the film again that they include both film cuts on it.

[shogun123]

Kubrick cut the coda from the American release just after a week of it being in theatres, he then cut it further for the UK release, not because of pacing or pressure from studio (Kubrick had full power) but because he later deemed that it needed a further edit.

Kubrick's preferred cut is the Euro release, the only ones saying that it is not are Americans.

[returnofthemack]

I watched the shining blu ray again last night for the first time since I got my new tv and I think this is a pretty good looking disc. I did notice some weird blu flickering at the start of the movie on the top of the screen though.

[shogun123]

Originally Posted by returnofthemack

I watched the shining blu ray again last night for the first time since I got my new tv and I think this is a pretty good looking disc. I did notice some weird blu flickering at the start of the movie on the top of the screen though.

That's the helicopter.

[EvilAshLives]

Originally Posted by shogun123

Kubrick's preferred cut is the Euro release.

Source?


EvilAshLives

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by shogun123

Kubrick's preferred cut is the Euro release, the only ones saying that it is not are Americans.

What the phuck kind of idiotic statement is that?
That's just as assinine as the post that "European's are more intelligent hence they get a shorter version"

Ummmm no! That would be like it if I said "Europeans got a shorter version because they have shorter attention spans!"

Who gives a shit where the version comes from? Let's say the longer cut is "The Mars Version". Well then I love the Mars Version!

This isn't America vs Britain! I like the longer version, as do the majority of people that love (not like) this film. If youre one of the many that like to analize the film and Kubriks story on a deeper level, then the Longer Mars Version is what one watches