The Incredibles 4K UHD (2004)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

But if you have or plan to have a >7.1.4 Atmos system, things start to fall apart. It's another print-out, for one.
When you compare the 5.1 track and the Atmos track, deficiencies besides volume do rear up.

Well, the bass is bit overcooked on the 5.1 EX track. Imaging and immersiveness on the Atmos is superior.


Yes it's annoying Disney locks the objects to 7.1.4 or 7.1.6

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...&noredirect=on


The Atmouse track comment:


OK, so I took one more for AVS and picked up The Incredibles on UHD/Atmos. It’s barely a 7.1.4 mix, with occasional use of the top middles to accentuate a fire in a building or rain overhead, let alone anything more immersive. The top middles get pulled in briefly after the initial interviews with the heroes, though, so it isn’t pre-rendered to 7.1.4, at least.

No wides or the extra Atmos presence speakers I have light up at all. And all the usual Disney complaints (low dynamic range, not much bass, etc.) still apply...

...Move on, nothing to hear...you’ll be just as good with a Netflix rental LOL. Returning it to Best Buy and picking up something else to test that I don’t have.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, the bass is bit overcooked on the 5.1 EX track. Imaging and immersiveness on the Atmos is superior.


Yes it's annoying Disney locks the objects to 7.1.4 or 7.1.6

It can’t be just “barely a 7.1.4 mix”, Atmos, by its nature, does not allow that. The metadata of Atmos objects give a location in 3D space, with the algorithms determining which speakers to send the sound to given the number of speakers, where they are, and the location of the sound object. So it doesn’t really make sense that it’s barely a 7.1.4 mix since what speakers are being used by certain sounds cannot be predetermined in an Atmos mix unless you’re simply playing it in a non-Atmos receiver (with everything folded down into the sound bed). That’s the whole point of Atmos, that it is so versatile because the sound objects have location metadata and are not “hardcoded” to play in specific, pre-determined speakers.

And I’ll repeat myself again; the Atmos re-mix of this is excellent, and it doesn’t lack anything in any way (including dynamics and low end). It uses the surrounds and heights aplenty, and it sounds like an original, native Atmos mix. People really need to learn how to make proper, fair comparisons, and if they don’t do that, then they shouldn’t give an opinion on the subject. In this case, yes, the Atmos mix is encoded at a lower volume, but once you raise it to where the characters’ voices are clear and at a good level, dynamics and bass support are plentiful. Perhaps the bass sounds less harsh here because it is not as overcooked as it is in the other mix like mentioned by PeterTHX, and that’s why people are complaining, but again, it doesn’t mean it’s “weak”, it’s just more proper and better encoded now to where there’s more detail in the sound dynamics, and in the low end, without sacrificing such dynamics.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

A good home 24.1.10 mix is jaw dropping and puts 7.1.4 to shame. It's like you're at a commercial Atmos theater. Sure, you're "only" getting up to 34.1 rather than up to 62.2 in a commercial render, but still... Wow!!

You have some good Atmos movie theaters near where you live. ...Dolby Cinema.
You prefer the big experience in large venues than home.
You go @ least once every week see a movie out. ...Twice a week.
The Incredibles 2...3D?

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by samlop10

It can’t be just “barely a 7.1.4 mix”, Atmos, by its nature, does not allow that. The metadata of Atmos objects give a location in 3D space, with the algorithms determining which speakers to send the sound to given the number of speakers, where they are, and the location of the sound object. So it doesn’t really make sense that it’s barely a 7.1.4 mix since what speakers are being used by certain sounds cannot be predetermined in an Atmos mix unless you’re simply playing it in a non-Atmos receiver (with everything folded down into the sound bed). That’s the whole point of Atmos, that it is so versatile because the sound objects have location metadata and are not “hardcoded” to play in specific, pre-determined speakers.

And I’ll repeat myself again; the Atmos re-mix of this is excellent, and it doesn’t lack anything in any way (including dynamics and low end). It uses the surrounds and heights aplenty, and it sounds like an original, native Atmos mix. People really need to learn how to make proper, fair comparisons, and if they don’t do that, then they shouldn’t give an opinion on the subject. In this case, yes, the Atmos mix is encoded at a lower volume, but once you raise it to where the characters’ voices are clear and at a good level, dynamics and bass support are plentiful. Perhaps the bass sounds less harsh here because it is not as overcooked as it is in the other mix like mentioned by PeterTHX, and that’s why people are complaining, but again, it doesn’t mean it’s “weak”, it’s just more proper and better encoded now to where there’s more detail in the sound dynamics, and in the low end, without sacrificing such dynamics.

I love when things are more proper.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by HumanMedia

So sad this wasn’t re-rendered at 4k and given a GOOD Atmos mix.

There’s no sadness required if you respect the original art (as the disc does).

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

I love when things are more proper.

I like when they’re less improper.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by samlop10

It can’t be just “barely a 7.1.4 mix”, Atmos, by its nature, does not allow that. The metadata of Atmos objects give a location in 3D space, with the algorithms determining which speakers to send the sound to given the number of speakers, where they are, and the location of the sound object. So it doesn’t really make sense that it’s barely a 7.1.4 mix since what speakers are being used by certain sounds cannot be predetermined in an Atmos mix unless you’re simply playing it in a non-Atmos receiver (with everything folded down into the sound bed). That’s the whole point of Atmos, that it is so versatile because the sound objects have location metadata and are not “hardcoded” to play in specific, pre-determined speakers.

Actually, there is a mode that "locks" the objects to specific speakers.
It's only supposed to be used in situations where bitrate is constrained, such as streaming or live broadcast. Disney is abusing this ability.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Actually, there is a mode that "locks" the objects to specific speakers.
It's only supposed to be used in situations where bitrate is constrained, such as streaming or live broadcast. Disney is abusing this ability.

They are more than likely doing a one and done streaming friendly mix and that gets put on the disc too.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Actually, there is a mode that "locks" the objects to specific speakers.
It's only supposed to be used in situations where bitrate is constrained, such as streaming or live broadcast. Disney is abusing this ability.

Originally Posted by samlop10

It can’t be just “barely a 7.1.4 mix”, Atmos, by its nature, does not allow that. The metadata of Atmos objects give a location in 3D space, with the algorithms determining which speakers to send the sound to given the number of speakers, where they are, and the location of the sound object. So it doesn’t really make sense that it’s barely a 7.1.4 mix since what speakers are being used by certain sounds cannot be predetermined in an Atmos mix unless you’re simply playing it in a non-Atmos receiver (with everything folded down into the sound bed). That’s the whole point of Atmos, that it is so versatile because the sound objects have location metadata and are not “hardcoded” to play in specific, pre-determined speakers.

And I’ll repeat myself again; the Atmos re-mix of this is excellent, and it doesn’t lack anything in any way (including dynamics and low end). It uses the surrounds and heights aplenty, and it sounds like an original, native Atmos mix. People really need to learn how to make proper, fair comparisons, and if they don’t do that, then they shouldn’t give an opinion on the subject. In this case, yes, the Atmos mix is encoded at a lower volume, but once you raise it to where the characters’ voices are clear and at a good level, dynamics and bass support are plentiful. Perhaps the bass sounds less harsh here because it is not as overcooked as it is in the other mix like mentioned by PeterTHX, and that’s why people are complaining, but again, it doesn’t mean it’s “weak”, it’s just more proper and better encoded now to where there’s more detail in the sound dynamics, and in the low end, without sacrificing such dynamics.

Oh contrare...

As PeterTHX mentioned, you can create a fixed print-out to any chosen speaker layout. Disney has chosen 7.1.4 (like DTS: X) or this time 7.1.6. These fixed objects become little more than channels that allow object sounds to pass-through. There are no 3D objects used in a print-out. However, the actual Pro Tools mix session uses pannable 3D objects with renderable position/size metadata from which a 34.1 home render or 62.2 commercial render can be created.

This is meant to make the Atmos track conducive to low bitrate situations where bandwidth is a premium. Blu-ray is not one of those situations... hence the problem.

Call it Atmos Lite. Similar to streaming Dolby Vision Lite.

[aetherhole]

Just stating this for the record, I didn't say that there's NO dynamics, I just said there are parts that don't have the same dynamics as the original DTS-HD Mix.

Bass may have been overcooked on the original blu-ray, so maybe they dialed it back, but the dynamics across the board are different, which goes along with what samlop said regarding Disney creating a different mix for the recent release.

My personal complaint wasn't with the surround usage comparatively, it was simply dynamics, which may include bass in some instances.

I had listened to The Incredibles on Blu-ray probably well over 20 times, probably similar amount of times on DVD, then watched the film 4 times in theaters (I'm just that big of a fan of the film ), so it could be that I am just used to how it sounded previously. Some parts sounded the same, then some parts didn't. Either way, they did SOMETHING different with the Atmos track, which I am still somewhat disappointed in. As I've stated before, this is not Black Panther or Age of Ultron bad.

If this example of The Incredibles is the direction Disney's going to take with their audio mixes going forward, it will likely be passable and maybe even satisfactory for the vast majority of the population (including enthusiasts).

[Hardback247]

I hope that when Toy Story 1 and 2 come out in 4K, that the original CG Disney logo with the Randy Newman theme will be at the beginning.

[LordoftheRings]

Regarding Dolby Atmos:
• https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...have-714-sound
• https://www.audioholics.com/audio-te...upmixing-atmos

Not many home theaters use all the 128 speaker channels, most only use two stereo speakers, from the TV itself.

It's true that if you buy The Incredibles on 4K Blu-ray, the Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack included on the 4K disc won't have all the 128 channels, but only 14 channels...it is restricted. ...To save metadata ... @ 7.1.6

If you want to go beyond that don't buy 4K BR discs; there is simply not enough space on a BD66 and BD100. They would need to compress the picture and sound back to the level of DVD and Laser Disc.

What we got is what we got. Ten years from now we might have four or six more channels, true native ones, like 11.1.6 ... But 128, we ain't there yet, not this side of Hollywood Japan in our homes.
It's like holography, picture and sound. For that we need multi rainbow layer Blu-ray discs (10 layers plus), with one terabyte of space per disc...BD-1000 (T-1000).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq5y...ature=youtu.be

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Actually, there is a mode that "locks" the objects to specific speakers.
It's only supposed to be used in situations where bitrate is constrained, such as streaming or live broadcast. Disney is abusing this ability.

That just sounds like it would take more data to lock a sound to a specific speaker. It would make more sense to do that if the processor/computer on the receiver is not capable enough of processing the metadata because there are too many objects or something similar to that, in which case locking the sounds to specific speakers would then provide less metadata for the receiver to process. Can an object play through the heights without metadata? Because if that’s not possible then it would be adding more data instead of less since you have to have the metadata plus the data that locks the sound to specific speakers.

May I ask where you read that? I was going through the documents on Dolby’s website for Dolby Atmos for the Home and I couldn’t find any mention of such feature/capability for Atmos to reduce the bitrate by doing that. It would make more sense to just turn it into Atmos in DD+ if you want to lower the bitrate.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

I hope that when Toy Story 1 and 2 come out in 4K, that the original CG Disney logo with the Randy Newman theme will be at the beginning.

That would be . . . incredible.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

That would be . . . incredible.

Since the old logo was kept in the new Incredibles release, I feel optimistic about this.

[LordoftheRings]

We need a new algorithmic Dolby Atmos audio codec for the 4K and the future 8K Blu-ray disc, like MQA.

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mast..._Authenticated

[fighthefutureofhd]

That's a terrific idea! Though the codec would need to have universal playability. Unlike MQA. MQA is a great format, but can only be played on certain players and such. Luckily, my DAP can play the codec.

[IXOYE1989]

$40.49 as of now at Amazon.com . This is why we need to keep supporting other retailers like Best Buy, Target, and Walmart. If these 3 stop selling physical media, Amazon will be the sole retailer selling at outrageous price like this.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by IXOYE1989

$40.49 as of now at Amazon.com . This is why we need to keep supporting other retailers like Best Buy, Target, and Walmart. If these 3 stop selling physical media, Amazon will be the sole retailer selling at outrageous price like this.

If you think Amazon is "the enemy", and then you throw in Wal-mart as an alternative, you should really - REALLY - look into Wal-mart's practices. They have 1700+ lawyers backing up their more-than-shady practices.

[IXOYE1989]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

If you think Amazon is "the enemy", and then you throw in Wal-mart as an alternative, you should really - REALLY - look into Wal-mart's practices. They have 1700+ lawyers backing up their more-than-shady practices.

Since we don't live in Utopia, I'm pretty sure shady practices exist in all of these big retailers. Just stating that without the other 3 to put Amazon on a leash, I'm very much not looking to what the future may hold when perhaps Amazon does take over the world.