Xbox Series X - $499/£449 or $35pm/£28.99 via All Access Nov 10

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Yeah MS is anxious to get the hell away from current gen as quickly as possible. They completely took a "mulligan" this generation and have been building solely for next gen.

I'm going to go out on a limb right now and say Xbox is going to make a big comeback next gen. I don't think they will outsell PS5 because they simply do not have the global acceptance that PlayStation does. However I fully expect them to take back the US in market share. The race next gen will be much closer than it was this gen.

As long as they both have a "consumer first" mentality and have amazing games, there will be no losers.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

Nope, completely disagree tbh.

We have to move on from the current gen, it's been 7 bloody years almost and tech has moved on too a lot. Their decision to keep it prolonged with no Series X exclusives from 1st party studios is what baffled me tbh.

The faster loading and whatnot though is pure incentive imo to upgrade and see tangible benefits. I think people have been going through some crappy loading times for a while now since the PS3 gen and fully installing games the entire PS4 gen didn't much improve it. We finally seem to have got to a stage where it's better. That's a huge selling point of these new systems. Hell, not like graphics can be the sole marketing tool much more.

That’s fine.

I look at the System they used. It’s not even 3 years old. Maybe I would of looked at the video under a different light had it been the Xbox One.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Derb

That’s fine.

I look at the System they used. It’s not even 3 years old. Maybe I would of looked at the video under a different light had it been the Xbox One.

True but loading times are almost nigh on identical between One X and base.

I think we should have a mid life cycle boost with more powerful models but that's just my opinion and i know others aren't on board with it but hey ho, if it starts somewhere, art least it becomes a thing.

[TheWildWhelk]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

True but loading times are almost nigh on identical between One X and base.

I think we should have a mid life cycle boost with more powerful models but that's just my opinion and i know others aren't on board with it but hey ho, if it starts somewhere, art least it becomes a thing.

I'm absolutely certain THAT is why the PS5 is less powerful than the X2, Sony want to hedge their bets with the vaguest of possibilities of a mid-gen refresh looks like happening. By the time the full power of the PS5 is maxed out, we are going to be seriously far down the road of games development...

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by TheWildWhelk

I'm absolutely certain THAT is why the PS5 is less powerful than the X2, Sony want to hedge their bets with the vaguest of possibilities of a mid-gen refresh looks like happening. By the time the full power of the PS5 is maxed out, we are going to be seriously far down the road of games development...

Here's my $0.02 on it.

MS can absorb a far bigger hit per console than Sony since it's not their biggest department and Sony relies on Playstation for a huge chunk of income, whereas MS see the Xbox brand as a way to expand more of their services and so on. So if it came down to that, it would hurt Sony in a pricing "war".

2nd, i think MS know they had to make a strong hook with the fact they aren't going to have a 1st party exclusive for 2 years post-release and extra power helps those 3rd party titles and 1st look a little more pretty.

Sony probably figured if they could slant the "experience" side vis haptic feedback on the DualSense and faster loading instead, down the line, they could release a more powerful console if need be. Mark it as "8k" even i guess just as MS may.

Say what we will, but rumour has it that the next 3000 series from Nvidia is a BEAST. We haven't seen what AMD has as a response either and yet even if Pro consoles come along, i think it's not till 2023 at minimum.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

Here's my $0.02 on it.

MS can absorb a far bigger hit per console than Sony since it's not their biggest department and Sony relies on Playstation for a huge chunk of income, whereas MS see the Xbox brand as a way to expand more of their services and so on. So if it came down to that, it would hurt Sony in a pricing "war".

2nd, i think MS know they had to make a strong hook with the fact they aren't going to have a 1st party exclusive for 2 years post-release and extra power helps those 3rd party titles and 1st look a little more pretty.

Sony probably figured if they could slant the "experience" side vis haptic feedback on the DualSense and faster loading instead, down the line, they could release a more powerful console if need be. Mark it as "8k" even i guess just as MS may.

Say what we will, but rumour has it that the next 3000 series from Nvidia is a BEAST. We haven't seen what AMD has as a response either and yet even if Pro consoles come along, i think it's not till 2023 at minimum.

Narmak, which "advantage" do you think will be the most immediately noticeable and impact ful to gamers, the spec advantage with XSX or the SSD/IO advantage with PS5?

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Narmak, which "advantage" do you think will be the most immediately noticeable and impact ful to gamers, the spec advantage with XSX or the SSD/IO advantage with PS5?

Off the bat, i'd say loading. It's by far the easiest thing to notice because it requires practically no optimisation to benefit from whereas graphics require a touch more finesse but extra headroom means they could probably push it further on Series X than PS5.

That said, i think its interesting we have two different approaches because we'll have a much better opportunity to finally see how a "traditional" x86 set up works against a more custom x86 as Sony seem to have developed. Also the difference between the NVMe speeds and their ability to influence optimisations for titles 3rd party or 1st party.

Both consoles will do well if priced right i think. I just give PS5 as edge due to sales momentum and perception from current gen.

[GRD43L]

We probably won't know how the entire ensemble (CPU/GPU/SSD etc.) will perform in general until several 3rd party games have been out for couple of months. It's like trying to buy a car based solely on HP, torque, fuel mileage, etc. when it is the marriage of the entire package as a system that's more important.

Sony's Pro (performance make-up) sort of makes sense but surely MS will also has a similar plan. MS had the console performance edge since the X1X so Sony really has to be bold to jump ahead of MS's momentum.

As X1X has proven (rather not proven) on current gen that having the performance edge is only that; if the performance does NOT come at good price, the edge is lost on attracting general consumers.

New console MUST have highest performance, lowest price out of the game, and a simple message. MS seems to have good understanding of this now.

[Mavrick]

The key differences between XSX and PS5 is the architecture of the systems I/O. The PS5 has a drastically faster throughput that is built in from the ground up that the Xbox cant compete with.

The Xbox has more horsepower so to say but theres a bigger bottleneck to contend with.

It could have 600hp but how much of that hp can it put down on the tarmac?

I can only guess that it will only mean slower load times but by slower load times it could be a case if milliseconds or there could be more pop up when rendering distant objects.

Its impossible to know until they are both out and games are compared under a microscope.

But how many people are going to notice it with the naked eye? A blind test of 3rd party games would be interesting.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

The key differences between XSX and PS5 is the architecture of the systems I/O. The PS5 has a drastically faster throughput that is built in from the ground up that the Xbox cant compete with.

The Xbox has more horsepower so to say but theres a bigger bottleneck to contend with.

It could have 600hp but how much of that hp can it put down on the tarmac?

I can only guess that it will only mean slower load times but by slower load times it could be a case if milliseconds or there could be more pop up when rendering distant objects.

Its impossible to know until they are both out and games are compared under a microscope.

But how many people are going to notice it with the naked eye? A blind test of 3rd party games would be interesting.

I very well could be wrong and I will freely admit it if I am. However I truly believe when it's all said and done, the spec sheet differences between PS5 and X1X will be largely be a wash. Both consoles have advantages/disadvantages and once developers learn how to exploit both console's strengths the end results will identical. From what I'm understanding, the performance gap between the PS4 Pro and X1X is much greater than the gap between PS5/XSX and in most cases, I have to squint to see the differences between Pro and X1X.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by GRD43L

We probably won't know how the entire ensemble (CPU/GPU/SSD etc.) will perform in general until several 3rd party games have been out for couple of months. It's like trying to buy a car based solely on HP, torque, fuel mileage, etc. when it is the marriage of the entire package as a system that's more important.

Sony's Pro (performance make-up) sort of makes sense but surely MS will also has a similar plan. MS had the console performance edge since the X1X so Sony really has to be bold to jump ahead of MS's momentum.

As X1X has proven (rather not proven) on current gen that having the performance edge is only that; if the performance does NOT come at good price, the edge is lost on attracting general consumers.

New console MUST have highest performance, lowest price out of the game, and a simple message. MS seems to have good understanding of this now.

I mean, i'd say buying a console is a little less high stakes than a car

Right now, it is still speculation but i think it's a bit early to also say MS have a good grip on pricing and whatnot given they went balls to the wall with spec for Series X. If that wasn't the case, then they would have pared back a little imo. They may be willing to bite a chunk on their RRP i guess. Time will tell but i thought the MS strategy was flawed with no Series X exclusives for 2 years. I stand by that and we'll see how that happens to play out too.

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I mean, i'd say buying a console is a little less high stakes than a car

Right now, it is still speculation but i think it's a bit early to also say MS have a good grip on pricing and whatnot given they went balls to the wall with spec for Series X. If that wasn't the case, then they would have pared back a little imo. They may be willing to bite a chunk on their RRP i guess. Time will tell but i thought the MS strategy was flawed with no Series X exclusives for 2 years. I stand by that and we'll see how that happens to play out too.

I don't remember if it's more than a couple of games or not, but there's at least 2 or 3 of those games that were announced during their 3rd party event that will be Series X exclusives. I know The Medium is for sure, so while their 1st party titles will indeed be cross-gen, they'll at least have a handful that are exclusive to the Series X. Whether they are just timed exclusives or not remains to be seen of course.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by KilloWertz

I don't remember if it's more than a couple of games or not, but there's at least 2 or 3 of those games that were announced during their 3rd party event that will be Series X exclusives. I know The Medium is for sure, so while their 1st party titles will indeed be cross-gen, they'll at least have a handful that are exclusive to the Series X. Whether they are just timed exclusives or not remains to be seen of course.

The thing that will hurt them the most imo is not having 1st party exclusive titles for 2 years as things stand and time will tell.

[GRD43L]

MS is going to have XB exclusives, just not XSX exclusives.

My speculation: MS studio titles such as Forza will be available on both X1 & XSX, but better looking and possibly more features on XSX version. MS's strategy is to retain current gen console owners with new games but ease them into the next gen.

MS is giving customers the options to choose and that's usually a good thing.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by GRD43L

MS is going to have XB exclusives, just not XSX exclusives.

My speculation: MS studio titles such as Forza will be available on both X1 & XSX, but better looking and possibly more features on XSX version. MS's strategy is to retain current gen console owners with new games but ease them into the next gen.

MS is giving customers the options to choose and that's usually a good thing.

I understand what they're doing, that's not my point. There's being less incentive to upgrade day 1 with Series X. At least with PS5 the argument is that they have BC and they're going to have next gen exclusives not possible on current gen. MS has that via 3rd parties only on their current trajectory and i don't think it's "Leaving people behind" because we know in past gens, BC was that hook to keep people in the ecosystem but now you have online services where friends are, game passes with monthly titles and so on you lose. So they'll imo be creating more obstacles than incentives to people in buying Day 1 rather than waiting 2 years and price drops. Just my feelings on it.

Obviously i don't know how things will 100% play out as nobody does come sales but i feel like the status quo of Sony leading sales will remain and in part MS is helping them do that. They probably won't suffer as much from a PR perspective but the question will hopefully be answered whether it was a bad choice and kay have factored into a loss of sales.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I understand what they're doing, that's not my point. There's being less incentive to upgrade day 1 with Series X. At least with PS5 the argument is that they have BC and they're going to have next gen exclusives not possible on current gen. MS has that via 3rd parties only on their current trajectory and i don't think it's "Leaving people behind" because we know in past gens, BC was that hook to keep people in the ecosystem but now you have online services where friends are, game passes with monthly titles and so on you lose. So they'll imo be creating more obstacles than incentives to people in buying Day 1 rather than waiting 2 years and price drops. Just my feelings on it.

Obviously i don't know how things will 100% play out as nobody does come sales but i feel like the status quo of Sony leading sales will remain and in part MS is helping them do that. They probably won't suffer as much from a PR perspective but the question will hopefully be answered whether it was a bad choice and kay have factored into a loss of sales.

MS is obviously counting on the jump in performance from X1 to the XSX to be significant enough to motivate gamers to want to upgrade, despite the fact those games will be available on the current hardware. I can tell you for myself, I'm already waiting to play The Last of Us, Cyberpunk 2077, and Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 for this very reason.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

MS is obviously counting on the jump in performance from X1 to the XSX to be significant enough to motivate gamers to want to upgrade, despite the fact those games will be available on the current hardware. I can tell you for myself, I'm already waiting to play The Last of Us, Cyberpunk 2077, and Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 for this very reason.

I completely understand on the PS5 side some may want to hold off if say they didn't have a PS4 Pro because they could finally play in 4K assuming there was a compatible TV and also get exclusives only on PS5.

For Xbox, why wouldn't i just wait for a price drop on One X when Series X launches, pick that up and play games in 4k on the cheap and have the Series X version ready to go after 2 years and Series X has had a price drop. That to me at least makes the most logical sense.

[Derb]

With how open MS has been with SX marketing, you think they will drop an announcement of Lockhart (cheaper) Series S?

It seems almost too late to market it without stealing SX’s thunder.

Maybe they scraped it.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Derb

With how open MS has been with SX marketing, you think they will drop an announcement of Lockhart (cheaper) Series S?

It seems almost too late to market it without stealing SX’s thunder.

Maybe they scraped it.

It seems like a silly move imo. A system barely more powerful than Xbox One X? Priced higher and again, probably for an in between console, causing confusion?

I think Locheart has been buried by now but never say never. From a company not giving their next gen console 1st party exclusives for 2 years, it's more than possible i guess.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

It seems like a silly move imo. A system barely more powerful than Xbox One X? Priced higher and again, probably for an in between console, causing confusion?

I think Locheart has been buried by now but never say never. From a company not giving their next gen console 1st party exclusives for 2 years, it's more than possible i guess.

I agree. I think it's utterly pointless. If they did release it, my bet is that it would be discontinued within 2 years because unless the XSX is priced into the stratosphere (and I don't think it will be), nobody is going to want it.