3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

The Samsung UN55D8000YF 3D LCD with LED edge-lit technology will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown for 3-D sources

August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

The Samsung UN55D8000YF offers Cinema quality frame rates in the 2-D mode. The Samsung UN55D8000YF properly displays 2-D 1080p/24 signals at 240Hz using the 10:10 pulldown repeating frame method when Auto Motion Plus is turned off.

3-D mode uses 3:2 pulldown for each eye: The Samsung 240Hz LCD screens that offer 3-D first convert the frame packed 3-D Blu-ray source material to 60Hz for each eye instead of 24Hz for each eye. Then it is my understanding that the Samsung 3-D LCD screens that are native 240Hz will then insert black frames between real frames so the effective total output is really 120Hz in 3-D mode (60Hz for each eye). The ideal flat screen display should offer triple flash technology at 144fps or quad flash technology at 192fps with no black frame insertion.

The following quote is from page 49 of the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

“LED Motion Plus may get a part of the motion resolution action, but Auto Motion Plus is the set’s primary feature designed to enhance both motion resolution and motion smoothness. When selected, it interpolates the extra frames needed to convert the source’s refresh rate to the LCD panel’s native 240-hertz refresh rate. A 2D source at 24 frames per second (such as from a Blu-ray player) is displayed at direct multiplies of 24 fps. However, in 3D, the set adds 3:2 pulldown to 24-fps sources. When Auto Motion Plus is off, the extra frames are simply repeated, not interpolated.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...d-led-lcd-hdtv

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic VIERA TC-L42E30 LED LCD 1080P flat panel (2-D only display)

August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

** The 2-D Panasonic LCD panel runs at 96 Hz with no 3:2 pulldown to preserve the Cinema quality motion **

** Above average off axis performance for an LCD screen **

** Poor contrast **

The Panasonic TC-L42E30 will properly display 2-D 1080p/24 material at 96Hz when Motion Picture Pro 4 (interpolation) is turned off (This is a 2-D only display). With the repeating frame method the 96Hz mode offers film like camera pans with no 3:2 pulldown judder. The Home Theater magazine reviewer did all 1080p/24 Blu-ray testing in the 96Hz mode with frame interpolation turned off since this mode has the closes film like look. The LCD panel uses 120Hz for all other non 24fps material.The Panasonic TC-L42E30 also offers excellent off axis performance when compared to most other LCD screens. This Panasonic LCD screen has poor contrast and black levels are below average according to the Home Theater magazine review. A plasma display still offers better off axis viewing, contrast ratios, and deeper blacks compared to the Panasonic TC-L42E30 LCD screen with LED edge lighting. List price of the Panasonic TC-L42E30 is $1,100.

The following are select quotes from the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review (Review located on pages 56-58)

“The Panasonic can refresh the source image at either 120 hertz or 96 hertz. With the Motion Picture Pro 4 control in either Weak or Strong, the Panasonic interpolates additional frames for each real source frame to bring the sources refresh rate up to either 120 Hz or, for 24-fps material, 96 Hz. Motion interpolation controls like this are now common in LCD designs, and as with the others, Motion Picture Pro 4 produces glassy-smooth, almost unnaturally fluid motion. But, also like other motion interpolation solutions, it significantly alters the look of film-based material and gives it a video-like character. You either like this effect or you don’t, but at least you can turn it off, as I did. In that case, the set simply repeats frames as needed to match the above refresh rates.”

“The set’s off –axis performance isn’t the equal of Panasonic’s plasma’s, but thanks to its IPS panel technology, it’s well above average for an LCD. Few viewers seated at any practical viewing angle will likely complain.”

“The TC-L42E30 is a mixed bag. The bad-cop, video perfectionist in me will rant on into the night about its skewed color gamut and substandard black level. But the good-cop, causal viewer in me enjoyed its consistently crisp images, subtly addictive (through not exceptionally accurate) color, above-average off-axis performance for an LCD set, and appealing price –all of which combine to provide a reasonable measure of real-world appeal.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...cd-hdtv-page-2

[HDTV1080P]

I enjoy IMAX 3-D movies. My local IMAX 3-D theater uses two 2K DLP projectors at an effective rate of 48Hz (24Hz each eye with no black time). The IMAX image is a very bright 3-D experience. Even in theaters that play 2K 3-D movies on a single DLP projector at 144fps (72fps each eye) the 3-D effective is good but usallly not as bright as a dual 2K DLP IMAX presentation. Passive glasses in theaters in general offers a quality 3-D experience without the dizzy ghosting effect.

In the United States to my knowledge all the theaters use passive glasses. In many areas of the world the Xpand active shutter glass technology is used in theaters at 144fps. At 144fps active glasses are flicker free without ghosting and a greatly reduced dizzy effect. My point is active glasses are more expensive but can offer excellent 3-D quality in the theater since they use triple flash 144fps technology.

Home 3-D can also be enjoyable on high-end projectors

(Both passive and active glasses offer 1080P quality for the high-end consumer projector market)

If one gets the opportunity to demo a 3-D 1080P Runco D-73d, Titan Reference 1080P 3-D projector, or a SIM2 C3X projector they will discover the best 3-D 1080P available in the home that is just below the quality of 2K 3-D found in the theater. The Titan Reference projector can do both passive and active 3-D with theater quality frame rates at 144fps. The SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D Solo and C3X Lumis 3D Solo HC both use Xpand active shutter glasses at 144fps. The SIM2 C3X Lumis 3D dual projector and the Runco D-73d both use passive glasses technology at 24Hz for each eye with no black time just like an IMAX presentation. These are all excellent projectors on the list but at a price range between $50,000-$85,000+ these displays are marketed to the consumer that wants high-end 3-D.

I am disappointed in the 3-D quality being offered by today’s flat panel screens and lower cost 3-D consumer projectors

A few times I have checked out the LG passive glasses 3-D technology display in Best Buy. When done correctly I am a big fan of passive glasses. The problem is the existing passive glasses technology at 120Hz looks terrible on a flat screen. When I first put on the LG 3-D glasses in Best Buy and viewed the demo a couple of times I noticed a few good 3-D effects but the image appeared to have scan lines with less details. Since passive glasses on today’s flat screens is 540P SD lines of resolution instead of 1080P HD for each eye that would explain the issue. The biggest problem I noticed is a terrible ghosting problem with the passive 540 line 120Hz LG flat screen that was out for demo at my local Best Buy. For the first time I experience a brief blurry ghosting effect from 3-D as the images from the left and right eye combined (this blurry ghosting effect happen in a few scenes). Now another brand of TV that was being demoed by Best Buy used active shutter glasses. The quality of 3-D was better with flat panel active shutter glasses but nothing like the true movie theater experience. I noticed some small flicker with the active shutter glasses but the ghosting problem was less of an issue and the detail was much better since the image was true 1080P for both eyes. The 3-D effect also looked artificial on the flat screen 3-D displays. These displays were not properly calibrated and these conditions were not in a dark room, but what I saw made me upset with the 3-D quality todays flat panels offer and what lower cost consumer projectors offer.

2-D comments

In the movie theaters 2-D 24fps movies were always shown in the theater at a minimum of 48Hz since 24Hz on an old film projector was never used since it would produce an unwatchable flicker on the screen. Many old film projectors still use 48Hz but newer projectors use 72Hz or higher. A modern Digital Projector with no black time can show 24fps movies at 24Hz with no flicker (IMAX and Sony SXRD RealD). When 1080P 2-D consumer displays came on the market they all were able to do 60Hz and the higher end plasmas like the 2006 1080P Pioneer PRO-FHD1 uses triple flash 2-D technology at 72Hz just like in the movie theater (3:3 pulldown). Mainstream consumers since they have been watching 60Hz 480i TV programs for years with 3:2 pulldown judder were not that interested in the improvement of Cinema quality frame rates. Most consumers are happy with the quality a 60HZ image offers in the 2-D world. Sure 60Hz does have some 3:2 pulldown motion issues during camera pans but on the positive side 60Hz is flicker free and above the minimum refresh rate of 48Hz that is found in movie theaters (48Hz is watchable on a film projector since the image is darker, but on many flat screens that offer a 48Hz mode, 48Hz produces a unwatchable flicker since flat screens are a lot brighter when compared to a film projector).

3-D comments

In the movie theater 3-D in modern times is either shown at an effective rate of 48Hz (24Hz for each eye with no black time), or 3-D is shown at 144fps (72fps for each eye). For more details see the old link .

When 2-D 1080P consumer flat screens came out they were all 60HZ which is flicker free since it was above the 48fps 2-D movie theater minimum. When 3-D consumer flat screens came out they were all 120Hz in 3-D mode which is below the 144fps 3-D movie theater minimum. Besides the 3:2 pulldown issue for each eye, consumer flat panel 3-D displays are below the minimum frame rate of what one experiences in the theater. The frame rate is much more important when it comes to 3-D quality. Much research went into 144fps as the minimum 3-D rate for display technologies that use only one projector or one light source.

144fps and 192fps offers the following benefits with passive and active glasses

No 6:4 pulldown judder issues (No 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye)

A higher quality 3-D experience with no screen flicker

Ghosting and dizzy effects are almost completely eliminated

Hopefully in the future some flat panel screens will offer 144fps triple flash technology. Full 1080P plasma displays are an ideal future candidate at 144fps with the use of the Xpand active shutter glass technology. Then later on Samsung or other manufactures could develop full 1080P passive glasses technology for flat screens instead of 540P SD quality that is being used today by companies that offer flat panel 3-D passive glasses. The ideal flat screen would use triple flash 144fps or quad flash 192fps technology with passive 1080P quality glasses. Perhaps even one day JVC might make a low cost active or passive 3-D projector that uses triple flash 144fps technology.

[HDTV1080P]

Some of the old links on the list are not working due to the UAV and HTD merger

The list and this thread are full of links from UltimateAVmag.com and other magazines. The UltimateAVmag.com website has merged with the Home Theater magazine website. Some of the old links from the UltimateAVmag.com website do not work anymore. To read more about the merger of the two websites click on the following link:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/uav-htd-now-merged-hometheatercom

[HDTV1080P]

240HZ Sony BRAVIA VPL-VW90ES SXRD 3-D Front Projector

(July/August 2011 Widescreen Review magazine)

** 3-D source material is most likely at 120HZ (60HZ for each eye), but that is only a theory and not a fact **

There is a strong possibility that the Sony VPL-VW90ES uses frame interpolation and/or black frame insertion when a frame packed 3-D signal is received. The ideal single light source 3-D projector should offer Digital Cinema technology like triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) when a frame packed 48Hz 3-D image is received. The Sony VPL-VW90ES does properly display 2-D 1080P/24 source material at 192Hz using an 8:8 pulldown repeating frame method to maintain the original frame rate of 2-D films (motionflow must be turned off).

The following are select quotes from the July/August 2011 Widescreen Review magazine (review located on pages 52 and 53)

“As an attempt to re-create more closely the film projector/CRT approach, some projectors have a mode that uses the 120 Hz or 240 Hz capabilities of the display, not to insert interpolated frames, but to insert black or very dark frames. The idea is to create a more “movie theatre” – like experience, and make moving objects appear sharper. The downside of this approach is that it cuts the light output considerably. Since every other frame is black, one might assume that the light would get cut by 50 percent, but in fact, it is worse than that, because the LCoS panel takes a certain amount of time to go from bright to black and back to bright again, so the total light output in this mode is closer to 35 percent of peak output.”

“Sony doesn’t make it clear which of the video modes is black frame insertion mode, but a bit of experimenting with a variety of motion patterns made it clear that the in the Motionflow sub-menu, setting Film Projection to “Mode 1” put the projector in black frame insertion mode. Light output was reduced considerably, but not nearly as much as it is when watching 3-D movies. In a room with good light control, the light output was more than adequate.”

“We found that the Motion Enhancer setting (also under Motionflow) controlled the frame interpolation feature.”

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic TC-P50ST30 3D Plasma HDTV

(August 2011 Home Theater magazine review link)

“Flicker was obvious and annoying on the ST30 in its 48Hz setting.”

** No 72Hz or 96Hz setting to eliminate flicker (60Hz required with 3:2 pulldown) **

** No Cinema quality triple flash 144fps 3-D setting **

According to the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic TC-P50ST30 has an obvious and annoying flicker when the display is set for 48Hz and a 1080p/24 signal is received (ST30 series has this flicker issue). I am very surprised that Panasonic is still making plasmas with the 48Hz setting. According to every single review I have read over the years, the 48Hz setting on Panasonics has either a “unwatchable flicker” or a very annoying flicker issue when 48Hz is engaged. In comparison according to LG every single 2011 LG plasma screen offers a 72Hz Cinema quality mode just like every Pioneer plasma screen starting in 2006 did (Even all the lower cost 2011 LG 1024 X 768P plasmas have a 72Hz mode according to the LG spec sheets). Hopefully in the future all new 2012 or 2013 Panasonic plasmas might replace the 48Hz setting with either 72Hz or 96Hz setting when a 2-D 1080p/24 signal is received (Then again maybe that will never happen since 72Hz and 96Hz mode is more expensive). Like all other existing flat panels this Panasonic also lacks a Cinema quality 144fps triple flash mode for 3-D material. The Panasonic TC-P50ST30 displays 3-D and interlaced material at 120Hz. Black levels on the ST30 are also still not as good when compared to a 2008 model Pioneer plasma.

The following are select quotes from the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

“For 24-frame-per-second material, the ST30's 24p Direct In setting gives you a choice of 48Hz (frames per second, with each 24fps frame displayed twice) or 60Hz, which is selected automatically for 60Hz progressive material or interlaced sources such as 1080i. It refreshes the image at 120Hz."

"Choosing 60Hz for 24fps sources adds 3:2 pulldown. Why might you do that? Flicker. Flicker was obvious and annoying on the ST30 in its 48Hz setting. To eliminate it, I used the 60Hz setting for all of my viewing, both 2D and 3D. Converting a 24fps source to 60Hz via 3:2 pulldown is normally considered bad form, but in this case, it produced no obvious artifacts. This didn't surprise me; I've done the same on reviews of Panasonic sets for the past few years (the 24p Direct In feature isn't new) and for the same reason.”

“This was disappointing, as we were hoping for steadily increasing improvement in Panasonic's already very good black levels. The ST30's overall performance is still near the current state of the art for plasma, which can still beat the usable black-level performance of most LCDs. But note the word "current" in the last sentence. Even the best black-level measurement turned in by current flat panels is still well short of our gold standard: the 0.001 ft-L measured on the last generation of the now long-discontinued Pioneer Kuros.”

"The ST30 also has a 2D-to-3D conversion mode and a Motion Smoother. The latter provides a three-position control (Off/Weak/Strong) that can produce more fluid motion, but it makes filmed content look wrong, as we often see with these features in LCDs. Fortunately, you really don't need this, as plasmas have inherently fast response times. That is, of course, unless you like the unnaturally oily smoothness this feature can produce. I don't."

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic TC-P50GT30 3D Plasma HDTV

(August 2011 Home Theater magazine review link)

“Flicker was obvious and annoying on the GT30 in its 48Hz setting.”

** No 72Hz or 96Hz setting to eliminate flicker (60Hz required with 3:2 pulldown) **

** No Cinema quality triple flash 144fps 3-D setting **

According to the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic TC-P50GT30 has an obvious and annoying flicker when the display is set for 48Hz and a 1080p/24 signal is received (GT30 series has this flicker issue). I am very surprised that Panasonic is still making plasmas with the 48Hz setting. According to every single review I have read over the years, the 48Hz setting on Panasonics has either a “unwatchable flicker” or a very annoying flicker issue when 48Hz is engaged. In comparison according to LG every single 2011 LG plasma screen offers a 72Hz Cinema quality mode just like every Pioneer plasma screen starting in 2006 did (Even all the lower cost 2011 LG 1024 X 768P plasmas have a 72Hz mode according to the LG spec sheets). Hopefully in the future all new 2012 or 2013 Panasonic plasmas might replace the 48Hz setting with either 72Hz or 96Hz setting when a 2-D 1080p/24 signal is received (Then again maybe that will never happen since 72Hz and 96Hz mode is more expensive). Like all other existing flat panels this Panasonic also lacks a Cinema quality 144fps triple flash mode for 3-D material. The Panasonic TC-P50GT30 displays 3-D and interlaced material at 120Hz. Black levels on the GT30 are also still not as good when compared to a 2008 model Pioneer plasma.

The following are select quotes from the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

“For 24-frame-per-second material, the GT30's 24p Direct In setting gives you a choice of 48Hz (frames per second, with each 24fps frame displayed twice) or 60Hz, which is selected automatically for 60Hz progressive material or interlaced sources such as 1080i. It refreshes the image at 120Hz. (The manual mistakenly says this parameter can also be set to 96Hz, but it can't.)”

“Choosing 60Hz for 24fps sources adds 3:2 pulldown. Why might you do that? Flicker. Flicker was obvious and annoying on the GT30 in its 48Hz setting. To eliminate it, I used the 60Hz setting for all of my viewing, both 2D and 3D. Converting a 24fps source to 60Hz via 3:2 pulldown is normally considered bad form, but in this case, it produced no obvious artifacts. This didn't surprise me; I've done the same on reviews of Panasonic sets for the past few years (the 24p Direct In feature isn't new) and for the same reason.”

“This was disappointing, as we were hoping for steadily increasing improvement in Panasonic's already very good black levels. The GT30's overall performance is still near the current state of the art for plasma, which can still beat the usable black-level performance of most LCDs. But note the word current in the last sentence. Even the best black-level measurement turned in by current flat panels is still well short of our gold standard: the 0.001 ft-L measured on the last generation of the now long-discontinued Pioneer Kuros.”


“It also has a 2D-to-3D conversion mode and a Motion Smoother. The latter provides a three-position control (Off/Weak/Strong) that can produce more fluid motion, but it makes filmed content look wrong, as we often see with these features in LCDs. Fortunately, you really don't need this, as plasmas have inherently fast response times. That is, of course, unless you like the unnaturally oily smoothness this feature can produce. I don't.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic TC-P55VT30 3D Plasma HDTV

(August 2011 Home Theater magazine review link)

** Cinema quality 96Hz 2-D setting for 1080p/24 movies **

** Black levels on the VT30 are not as good when compared to last year’s VT25 model **

** No Cinema quality triple flash 144fps 3-D setting **

“The VT25 had better blacks—0.006 ft-L on the VT30 versus 0.004 ft-L on the VT25.”

The Panasonic VT30 series offers a 48Hz flicker mode just like the GT30 and ST30. The big advantage of the VT30 series is it offers a 96Hz 4:4 pulldown mode to maintain the original film quality look when watching 1080p/24 Blu-rays. The Home Theater magazine reviewer used the 96Hz mode when watching 1080p/24 source material since that setting eliminates the 3:2 pulldown judder of 60Hz. Consumers that want a Panasonic plasma that offers 96Hz mode are forced to always purchase the top of the line VT models every year. Panasonic should offer a 72Hz or 96Hz 2-D mode on every single plasma model from the lowest priced to the highest priced model. In 2011 LG offers 72Hz on every single plasma screen in production according to the LG spec sheets. If LG can offer 72Hz mode on every single plasma screen then Panasonic hopefully in 2012 or 2013 might offer either 72Hz or 96Hz on every plasma screen. Another disappointment is that all flat screen manufactories including Panasonic do not offer a triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) mode for 3-D. Instead 3-D material is refreshed at 120Hz. The black levels on the 2011 VT30 are not as good as the 2010 VT25. A 2008 Pioneer plasma still outperforms a 2010 and 2011 Panasonic in terms of black levels and overall 2-D picture quality performance.

Panasonic could become a industry leader in plasma picture quality if they did the following:

1. All future Panasonic plasma models from the low-end to the high-end should offer 72Hz or 96Hz mode when a 2-D 1080p/24 signal is received (LG already offers 72Hz on all their 2011 plasma screens).

2. The top of the line flagship Panasonic plasma screens in the future should offer triple flash (144fps) or quad flash (192fps) technology when a 3-D frame packed signal is received. Triple flash technology at 144fps (72fps each eye) is used in all 3-D theaters that have a single light source.

3. A future flagship Panasonic plasma should either match or beat the black level performance that the Pioneer 2008 Kuro technology offers. Right now the 2008 Pioneer’s that are 3 years old have the deepest black levels with no fading black level issues.

The following are select quotes from the August 2011 Home Theater magazine review

“For 24-frame-per-second material, the VT30's 24p Direct In setting gives you a choice of 48Hz (frames per second, with each 24fps frame displayed twice), 60Hz (which is selected automatically for 60Hz progressive material or interlaced sources such as 1080i), or 96Hz. I used 96Hz for watching 24fps movies.”

“We still had our review sample of last year's top-of-the-line TC-P50VT25 on hand, so a comparison between that and the VT30 was clearly irresistible. There was only time for a 2D face-off, but one thing was clear: In terms of picture quality, the VT30 was neither better nor worse than the VT25 in any respect save one: The VT25 had better blacks—0.006 ft-L on the VT30 versus 0.004 ft-L on the VT25. The visible difference on a full black field was subtle but unmistakable. This was disappointing,as we were hoping for steadily increasing improvement in Panasonic's already very good black levels. The VT30's overall performance is still near the current state of the art for plasma, which can still beat the usable black-level performance of most LCDs. But note the word current in the last sentence. Even the best black-level measurement turned in my current flat panels is still well short of our gold standard: the 0.001 ft-L measured on the last generation of the now long-discontinued Pioneer Kuros.”

“It also has a 2D-to-3D conversion mode and a Motion Smoother. The latter provides a three-position control (Off/Weak/Strong) that can produce more fluid motion, but it makes filmed content look wrong, as we often see with these features in LCDs. Fortunately, you really don't need this, as plasmas have inherently fast response times. That is, of course, unless you like the unnaturally oily smoothness this feature can produce. I don't.”

“The VT30 deserves its place as Panasonic's flagship 3D plasma—its detail, color, blacks, shadow detail, and feature set are among the best offered by today's flat panels, though it doesn't quite reach the benchmark for blacks set by Pioneer's gone-but-not-forgotten Kuro plasmas. Still, the VT30's blacks beat the GT30's and ST30's, so if you've got the dough, I say go for it.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Home Theater magazine website **

[HDTV1080P]

Well the new 2011 Sharp Elite LCD screens with LED technology be able to match or beat the picture quality of a 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD plasma screen???

CNET, Home Theater magazine, and almost all professional flat screen reviewers still use the 2008 Pioneer plasma models as a reference display to compare all other flat screens to in terms of deep black levels and picture quality. The top of the line Pioneer PRO-141FD list price in 2008 was $7,000. It went out of production in April of 2009 when Pioneer stopped assembling plasma screens (The Pioneer plasmas were assembled in the United States using both US and imported parts).

As of early August 2011 the 2008 model Pioneer plasmas still offer the best picture quality compared to any other consumer flat panel screens. In August 2011 Sharp will start shipping the PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD LCD screens that will use some of the Pioneer Elite technology. The 2011 Sharp PRO-60X5FD 60 inch screen will list for $5,999.99 which is $1,000 cheaper compared to the 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD 60 inch that listed for $7,000. The 70 inch PRO-70X5FD has a list price of $8,499.99.

The big question is will the new Sharp Elite LCD screens that are assembled in Mexico be able to match or beat the picture quality of the 2008 Pioneer Elite plasma screens?? The answer to that question will not be known until a professional reviewer is able to compare the 60 inch 2011 Sharp PRO-60X5FD to the 60 inch Pioneer PRO-141FD.

Another issue is how well does the Sharp Elite LCD screens handle motion? It appears that the Sharp Elites will be 120Hz with frame interpolation. Hopefully the Sharp Elites will offer a true 5:5 pulldown repeating frame method for 1080p/24 material. Another big question is will the Sharp Elite LCD screens with LED backlighting properly display 3-D material without 3-2 pulldown judder for each eye??? Will the Sharp Elites be able to offer triple flash technology for 3-D? Right now it appears the displays will be 120Hz with a 240Hz effect.

The following are the links to the marketing hype regarding the Sharp Elites; only several professional reviews will be able to prove if the Sharp LCD Elites offer a picture quality similar to the old 2008 Pioneer plasma Elites.

Sharp Resurrects the Elite Brand

Sharp, Pioneer Unveil Elite LCD TV Line

[HDTV1080P]

In the future one day I plan on taking a trip to the Best Buy Magnolia store in early September to see the new Sharp Elite displays in person. Also I am looking forward to a Home Theater magazine shootout between the 60 inch Pioneer PRO-141FD and the 60 inch Sharp PRO-60X5FD (No shoot out between those models has been announced by Home Theater magazine but since the PRO-141FD is used as a reference display by Tom Norton it is a possibility).

The 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD plasma is only 2.5 inches thick compared to the 2011 Sharp PRO-60FX5FD which is slightly over 3 inches thick (3 1/32 inches). The full array LED backlighting technology needs to be that thick to offer a picture quality improvement over Edge LIT LED. The 70 inch PRO-70X5FD is the same thickness as the 60 inch Sharp Elite model. Back in 2008 Sony had a high-end LCD screen with LED backlighting that was almost 6 inches thick, so things have improved for those that want performance and thin profiles for their LCD screens. Power consumption has greatly improved over the last 3 years with LCD’s that use LED’s. The PRO-70X5FD uses 282 Watts and the PRO-60X5FD uses 204 watts (http://elitelcdtv.com/full-elite-spe...ons-downloads/).

Every year Pioneer kept improving on power performance but 2008 technology used a lot of power. The 60 inch PRO-141FD uses 481 watts and the 50 inch PRO-101FD uses 384 watts. So clearly the Sharp 70 inch Elite at 282 Watts uses less power but the big question will be can it match or beat the picture quality of a 2008 Pioneer Kuro model (We will have to wait and see to get the answer to that question).

Pricing info for the Sharp Elites

It is good to support local Elite dealers to keep them in business, but Elite products do end up online at discount wholesale consumer mail order companies. The advantage of retail stores is one gets full warranty, better support, and better customer service. From one of my mail order sources I have learned the following mail order prices for the Sharp Elites once large qty's of the screens are shipped. These low prices might not occur until after the Christmas season. Mail order companies sell screens sometimes 5% or 10% above what they paid for the screens compared to retail which has a 30% or 40% mark up for new models (Some old models on clearance at retail sometimes are a 15% markup).

The suggested retail price on the Sharp PRO-70X5FD is $8,499.99 (Mail order price will be around $5,205 according to one of my sources).

The suggested retail price on the Sharp PRO-60X5FD is $5,999.99 (Mail order price will be around $3,580 according to one of my sources).

Just like the Pioneer Elites ended up online what I am hearing is after the Christmas season Sharp Elites will end up being sold online. Of course, most the online dealers are not authorized Elite dealers.

Another thing I learned from my source is Sharp is coming out with a standard 80 inch non Elite LCD LED screen this year that some mail order companies will be selling for around $3,900. In 2012 a high-end 80 inch Sharp Elite might also be released.

[HDTV1080P]

Sharp XV-Z17000 3D DLP Projector (Will not be added to the list)

The Sharp XV-Z17000 3D DLP Projector will not be added to the list since it uses 3:2 pulldown when viewing both 2-D and 3-D film based material. Hopefully future Sharp projectors in the years to come will offer 72Hz for 2-D and 144Hz for 3-D when a Blu-ray movie is played (Note: 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, or 120Hz would be fine for 2-D 1080p/24 sources. 3-D needs a minimum of 144Hz to maintain the original Digital Cinema quality frame rate).

The following quotes are from the October 2011 Home Theater magazine review (review located on pages 66-68)

“The projector refreshes 2D images at a rate of 60 hertz and 3D images at 120 Hz (60 Hz for each eye in 3D). The Sharp first converts 24-fps 2D sources to 60 Hz, and 24-fps 3D sources to 120 Hz, by adding 3:2 pulldown. This isn’t the best approach, but since the Sharp lacks a refresh rate that’s even multiple of 24 Hz, it’s the only workable alternative.”

“3D remains a work in progress on this and most other affordable projectors when it comes to producing a bright image on a very big screen at a sensible price.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...-dlp-projector

[HDTV1080P]

New JVC Home Theater Projectors Display Images With 4K Precision

(outstanding low price for a 4K projector)

(Scheduled release November 2011)

Important update: These new so called 4K JVC projectors are using e-Shift technology with 3 standard 1080p D-ILA chips instead of using native 4K panels. Also the JVC projectors are unable to display native 4K content. This low price was too good to be true, people get what they pay for.

Quote

“JVC is calling its 4K technology e-Shift, and rather than using a native 4K panel as Sony’s new projector will, it uses some electronic trickery to mimic the extra resolution. The projectors actually use JVC’s standard 1080p D-ILA chips, but electronically shift the image half a pixel to the side and half a pixel up — then back — at 120Hz, effectively quadrupling the number of visible pixels to 4K resolution, or 3840 x 2160.
Unlike Sony’s consumer 4K projector, which will display actually display true 4K content, JVC’s e-Shift-equipped projectors will only upscale 1080p content.”

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/jvc-continues-march-toward-consumer-4k-with-e-shift/

I was amazed to learn that JVC will release a total of 4 projectors that support 4K resolution at an outstanding low price starting at only $7,999. Prior professional high-end 4K projectors cost between $100,000-$250,000+. JVC in November is going to offer the 4K DLA-X90R and 4K DLA-RS65 for a list price of only $11,999. A lower cost 4K DLA-X70R and 4K DLA-RS55 will list for $7,999.

HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.4a supports two 2-D 4K standards. Both 3840 X 2160 4K and 4096 X 2160 4K resoultion is supported over HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.4a. 3840 X 2160 is twice the horizontal and vertical resolution when compared to 1080P HD (Four times the number of pixels with over 8 megapixels).

The Blu-ray format that launched in the year 2006 offers only a maximum of 1920 X 1080P resolution (Blu-ray currently is the best quality consumer format available in terms of both picture and sound quality, but that could change in 5 years from now). Blu-ray is estimated to be around its half life before a new optical format is released. It is estimated that possible in 5 years, sometime around the year 2016 a new 4K optical format might be released. The new 4K optical format might end up being an entirely different format unrelated to the Blu-ray format or it could end up being an extension to the existing Blu-ray format that uses new 200GB+ optical disc technology with a new lossy or lossless video compression system. It’s almost impossible to predict the future. We should have another 5 years before we have to worry about a new 4K optical format being released to challenge the Blu-ray format.

In the commercial movie theaters 4K projectors are currently in use to display standard 2-D Digital Cinema sources at native 4K quality. Since there is no 4K movie sources for the consumer market yet the JVC 4K projectors can only be used to upconvert Blu-ray 1080P and other HD sources to 4K quality. Upconvert at 4K is not as good of quality when compared to native 4K material. Also the JVC e-Shift 4K technology will not allow native 4K technology to be displayed when and if 4K source material for the home becomes a reality.

The JVC 4K projectors will only upconvert standard 2-D HD images to 4K quality and will not upconvert 3-D sources to 4K quality. In the commercial movie theater all 3-D source material is currently 2K quality when projected on a 2K or 4K projector. Perhaps in the future 3-D 4K source material might be released in the commercial movie theaters. If 4K 3-D is every released for the home market it will require a new digital interface or an extension to the existing HDMI standard. HDMI 1.4 and 1.4a only handles 4K resolution for 2-D material and not 3-D material.

The new 2011 JVC Front Projectors do not offer triple flash or quad flash technology for 3-D:In the Digital Cinema with one light source 3-D movies are always shown at 2K quality using triple flash technology at 144fps. JVC’s motion drive can only handle up to 120Hz. The ideal JVC projector should have a 144Hz or 192Hz motion drive instead of 120Hz. It appears all the new November 2011 JVC Front Projectors being released will use 96Hz in 3-D mode (48Hz each eye). In the commercial movie theaters with a single light source projector 3-D is shown at 144Hz to offer a flicker free 3-D experience. Research was done many years ago and it was found that 50% of the people experience a visible flicker when watching 3-D at 96Hz (That’s why only 144fps is used in movie theaters now for single light source projectors). So in theory just like last year some people might see flicker on the new JVC 3-D projectors when watching 3-D material. In theory 2-D 1080P/24 source materal will be properly upconverted to 4K with a flicker free Cinema quality rate of 96Hz on the new 4K projectors (need professional review to verify refresh rate). If 3-D material would have been displayed at 144fps or 192fps this JVC projector would have been ideal for 3-D.

Technically it is possible with a 4K projector to show the left eye image at full 1920 X 1080 and the right eye image at 1920 X 1080 at the same time on a 4K projector using passive glasses technology. The Sony 4K SXRD system in commercial movie theaters offers 2K quality 3-D using passive glasses technology.Since the JVC projectors are only using 1080P panels to upconvert to 4K this would explain why passive glasses can not be used.

It would be ideal if JVC would develop a way to combine two 4K projectors together to offer a very bright 3-D image at 192HZ (96Hz each eye) that uses passive glasses technology.

The bottom line is the new so called 4K JVC projectors will most likely become the new reference standard for upconverted 4K 2-D picture quality for the consumer market when watching 1080P material with deep black levels. But when it comes to 3-D quality there is more work that needs to be done. The Titan 1080P Reference projector for $85,000 is still King of 3-D with its bright 144fps 3-D image using either passive or active glasses. The 1080P Runco D-73d also is a reference 3-D projector system that is similar to an IMAX experience at home using passive glasses.

The new JVC D-ILA home theater projectors will be available in November at the following prices:

DLA-X90R/DLA-RS65 $11,999 (So called 4K quality)
DLA-X70R/DLA-RS55 $7,999 (So called 4K quality)
DLA-RS4800 $4,995 (1080P quality)
DLA-X30/DLA-RS45 $3,499 (1080P quality)

http://newsroom.jvc.com/2011/09/new-jvc-home-theater-projectors-display-images-with-4k-precision/

http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/new/692408.html

[HDTV1080P]

Click here to read the latest updated information regarding this new 4K Sony projector

Sony 4K VW1000ES Front Projector with true 4096 X 2160 pixel resolution

(Scheduled to be released in December 2011 with an estimated price somewhere between $25,000-$30,000)

True Cinema quality 4K resolution

The Sony VW1000ES is a low priced consumer projector that is comparable to the commercial 4K SXRD Projectors (low priced when compared to a Titan 1080P 3-D Reference Projector for $85,000 and other more expensive 4K projectors). High-end 4K projectors can easily run $100,000-$250,000+. In the commercial Cinema Sony uses a single 4K projector in conjunction with RealD systems to offer native 2K 3-D movies at 48Hz (24Hz each eye) without the need for triple flashing. Native 24Hz for each eye is ideal and comparable to the IMAX system. The specs for the VW1000ES have not been released yet. 2-D 4K content would display at the full 4096 X 2160 over a single HDMI 1.4a connection. 3-D 2K content would display at full 2K quality (this projector uses active shutter glassses technology. Passive glasses is used in most commercial theaters around the world). There is no 3-D 4K source material in the commercial theaters, only 2K for 3-D so far. When and if 4K 3-D content becomes a reality it would require an 8K SXRD projector to use passive glasses at 4K quality. HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.4a can only handle 2-D 4K. So if home 3-D 4K every happens we will need a new digital high speed interface or a new HDMI standard.

Quote

“Sony used the opening of the annual CEDIA installers show on Wednesday to showcase its new top-of-the-line consumer projector, which bears its Elevated Standard (ES) branding and throws a full 4K picture: 4096 x 2160 pixels. That’s the same resolution used in high-end digital cinemas, and more than four times the resolution of a 1080p picture.”

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/sony-ushers-in-the-4k-home-theater-with-vw1000es-projector/

Sony is in talks with the Blu-ray Disc Association to offer a 4K feature sometime in the future

In around 5 years from now one might be able to purchase 4K Blu-ray movies. Possible a format war between a new 4K optical format and the older Blu-ray technology. Remember the HD-DVD and Blu-ray 1080P format war. The higher bit rate Blu-ray format with its 50GB discs won the format war when it was up against the lower bit rate 30GB HD-DVD format. The fact that the Blu-ray format had more studio support played a key part in winning the 1080P format war.

Perhaps around 5 years from now we could see a 4K format war. Maybe a new 500GB optical disc up against a multi-layer 200GB Blu-ray disc?

Quote from Sony regarding 4K Blu-ray discs:

“Sony reps claim the company is in talks with the Blu-ray Disc Association to iron out a standard compression scheme for squeezing 4K movies onto discs, and has already promised a 4K release of the next Spider-Man movie, but the July 2012 release date for that flick should be telling: Sony won’t yet talk timelimes on when 4K movies could hit shelves.”

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/sony-ushers-in-the-4k-home-theater-with-vw1000es-projector/

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic TC-P55VT30 3D Plasma HDTV

(September 2011 Sound and Vision magazine review link)

** Cinema quality 96Hz 2-D setting for 1080p/24 movies **

** No Cinema quality triple flash 144fps 3-D setting **

The big advantage of the VT30 series is it offers a 96Hz 4:4 pulldown mode to maintain the original film quality look when watching 2-D 1080p/24 Blu-rays. Hopefully future Panasonic plasma screens in the years to come would start offering 144fps triple flash technology or 192fps quad flash technology when a frame packed 3-D Blu-ray is played (120Hz 3-D has 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye at 60Hz). Also hopefully future Panasonic plasmas will either match or beat the black level of 2008 Pioneer plasma technology. The current 2011 VT30 does not offer as good as blacks as a Pioneer and even worse the black levels are not even as good as the 2010 VT25 plasma.

The following are select quotes from the Sound and Vision magazine review

“There’s also a 96-Hz display option available in Custom mode that lets the TV display 1080p/24 sources with no 3:2 pull-down processing.”

“And while the Panasonic’s black-level performance didn’t exactly rival my— admittedly dimming — memory of Pioneer’s late, lamented plasma TVs, I was nonetheless impressed.”

** Click here to read the complete review at the Sound and Vision magazine website **

[HDTV1080P]

A few interesting Quotes

“For a time, there was Kuro, and Kuro was king. Kuro made other TVs envious of its awesomeness. Then. . . there was no Kuro. TV reviewers wept; everyone else bought LCDs. Under-intelligenced “pundits” foretold the end of plasma TVs — but Panasonic, Samsung, and LG quietly coughed and politely said, “Umm, we still make plasmas.”

“Ha!” said the pundits. “You won’t much longer. See, your king is dead.” In reply, feet were shuffled, hands were raised: “Umm, so?” So, indeed. While much attention is paid to the latest LED this and 480-Hz that, plasma TV development hasn’t stopped. Pioneer’s Kuro plasmas may have been a high-water mark in flat-panel TV picture quality, but, as engineers will do, they saw the mark and shrugged. “We can do better.”

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-lg-50pz950-3d-plasma-hdtv?page=0,0

[HDTV1080P]

I realize it’s been around a couple of months since I posted to this thread. My research and posts are all volunteer work I do and sometimes I get busy with other projects and do not have time to post in this thread. I have been very busy lately working on projects constantly for the last few months. In general I have been keeping up with the latest technologies but I have some reading I plan on catching up on that is on my pile to read. In general not much has changed in terms of the list of 3D displays that support Cinema quality frame rates. All 3-D flat panel screens currently in production are still using 3:2 pulldown in 3-D mode as far as I am aware. Also most Front Projectors are still 60Hz for each eye in in 3-D mode with 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye except for the ultra high-end models which are on the list.

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung Ends RealD 3DTV Plan

On or around November 3rd Samsung decided to not release the next generation of 3D flat panels that would have allowed true 1080P resolution using RealD passive glasses technology. This means consumers that want 1080P quality displays with passive glasses will for the near future be limited to high-end Front Projectors between $50,000-$85,000+. Currently all flat panel displays that offer 3-D passive technology offer 540 lines of resolution for each eye which is not even HD quality. It is not known why Samsung ended the license agreement with RealD but possible the technology might have been too costly to produce in a bad economy. Maybe the first generation Samsung RealD true 1080P flat panel might have cost $10,000.

RealD is now looking for other flat screen manufactories to possible license the true 1080P passive technology. Some people would be interested in a Sharp Elite if it used RealD passive technology with 144fps or 192fps in 3-D mode. A Panasonic plasma or a LG plasma screen would be ideal product if RealD modified the technology to work with plasma technology. LG already makes 3-D passive glasses displays at 540 lines, adding 144fps with RealD 1080P passive technology would be ideal. All plasmas use active glasses so far and are true 1080P for each eye at 60Hz. Hopefully this Film Pattern Retarder technology that RealD developed will get developed by some LCD or plasma flat screen manufactory. Of course plasma screens would most likely need a modification to the RealD active/passive system since it is my understanding that the RealD technology was developed for LCD technologies.

Quote
“"RealD has recently learned that Samsung's initiative to manufacture panels under the RealD license agreement is not being pursued at this time," RealD said in a statement on its financial report. "As a result, RealD is now pursuing other potential partners for its 3D display technology among consumer electronics panel manufacturers."

The technology would have allowed Samsung to produce 3DTVs that allowed the use of passive 3D glasses, like those used in movie theaters, but would have also preserved some of the benefits of active-shutter 3D technology by placing right/left-eye switching in the panel instead of the glasses.

The design as expected by some analysts to be a higher quality, but more expensive approach to passive 3D TV systems based on Film Pattern Retarder technology.”

Report: Samsung Ends RealD 3DTV Plan

[HDTV1080P]

The Samsung PN59D8000 3D plasma will not be added to the list since it uses 60Hz for each eye in 3-D mode

The Samsung PN59D8000 will properly display standard 2-D 1080P/24 Blu-ray sources and other 2-D 1080p/24 sources at 96Hz just like a Digital Cinema projector when Cinema Smooth is switched on. The disappointment is just like all other flat screen panels on the market, the Samsung PN59D8000 will display 1080P 3-D frame packed Blu-ray sources at 60Hz for each eye instead of 72Hz or 96Hz for each eye. The ideal 3-D flat screen panel should offer triple flash technology at 144fps or quad flash technology at 192fps to maintain the original Digital Cinema frame rate with no 3:2 pulldown judder. It should be mentioned that there is no flat panel screens on the market yet from any company that offer triple flash or quad flash technology in 3-D mode.

The following are quotes from Home Theater magazine review link

“All Samsung plasmas refresh at a rate of 60 hertz. With a 24-fps, 2D source and Cinema Smooth selected in the film mode control, the refresh rate increases to 96 Hz, and the set displays 24 fps at four times its original refresh rate, with no 3:2 pulldown conversion. Cinema Smooth isn’t a motion-interpolation feature; the set neither has one nor needs one. The added frames are merely repeated."

"If you have selected Cinema Smooth and feed the set a non-24-fps source, the refresh rate reverts to 60 Hz and the set defaults to one of the auto film mode settings. However, 3D playback always uses 3:2 pulldown on 24-fps sources.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...3d-plasma-hdtv

[HDTV1080P]

2 new 3-D Front Projectors from Digital Projection Inc is now added to the list

Titan Quad Reference 3D 1080P (112-145) (144Hz for 3-D 48Hz sources, 72Hz for 2-D 24Hz sources)

Titan Quad 3D 1080P (111-872) (144Hz for 3-D 48Hz sources, 72Hz for 2-D 24Hz sources)

Click the following link for a diagram on how the ideal consumer 3-D Front Projector or 3-D display should work when unpacking the frame packed 1920 X 2205 image.

http://cepro.com/images/uploads/frame_packed_3d_large.jpg

Full 1080P 3-D quality using either passive or active glasses

3-D Blu-ray movie discs refreshed at 144Hz and 2-D 1080p/24 material refreshed at 72Hz

These new Titan Quad projectors have HDMI 1.4 inputs plus a dual DVI link compared to prior models that used only a dual DVI link to a HDMI adapter. Both the Titan Quad and Titan Quad Reference 3-D projectors can be configured to use either active or passive glasses at full 1080P quality for each eye. Extremely bright 3-D projectors rated between 8,000 and 16,000 lumens. True Digital Cinema refresh rates of 144fps for 3D frame packed Blu-ray movie material and 72fps for 2-D 1080p/24 Blu-ray material.

More information about the Titan Quad 3-D projectors can be found in the October 2011 Widescreen Review magazine on page 16.

Quotes
“Digital Projection International (DPI), an Emmy® Award-winning manufacturer of high-performance projection systems, announces the complete reinterpretation of the advanced 3D display with the introduction of the new TITAN Quad 3D product line. Incredibly compact for such powerful projectors, the 8,000 lumen TITAN Reference Quad 1080p-3D and 16,000 lumen TITAN Quad 1080p-3D are both active and passive 3D capable with HDMI 1.4 compliant 3D connectivity. Furthermore, the new TITAN Quad projectors include DP’s exclusive ColorMax color management system for consistent color performance and precise color gamut control. The new TITAN Quad displays now represent the flagship of DPI’s TITAN product line, which incorporates over 30 distinct 3D capable models.

DPI’s Reference Displays are widely regarded as the ultimate displays for creating exclusive home entertainment experiences, and the new TITAN Reference Quad serves as powerful evidence that this reputation is well deserved. TITAN Quad projectors make 3-chip DLP® performance available in a compact chassis that produces dazzlingly bright, high contrast and color saturated imagery. As brightness is an essential characteristic when considering a 3D projector purchase, the TITAN Quad displays ensure awe-inspiring home entertainment on the largest screens, through their unprecedented 8,000 and 16,000 lumens. Incomparable brightness stands as only one key benefit however, as the TITAN Quads also boast incredible color performance due to DPI’s exclusive Xenon Color Mode. This color-space replicating capability assures the skin tones of your favorite actors and the team colors of your favorite sports heroes are rendered true and accurate.

With over four years of experience designing, manufacturing, distributing and supporting powerful 3D projectors, DPI has developed exclusive 3D advances that extend the remarkable flexibility found within each TITAN Quad display. FastFrame motion blur reduction all but eliminates motion artifacts associated with rapidly moving content, such as what may be seen when viewing sporting events or participating in video games. DPI’s Dual-Flash Processing assures the smoothest in screen imagery, by frame doubling 60 Hz 3D sources to be displayed at 120 Hz on screen, or by frame tripling 24/48 Hz 3D sources, such as frame-packed 3D Blu-ray discs, to be displayed at 144 Hz. These powerful new capabilities perfectly complement other legacy characteristics that have made DPI’s precision displays the reference standard for exclusive home cinemas for more than a decade.”
http://www.digitalprojection.com/NewsMedia/tabid/56/newsid370/277/Default.aspx

[HDTV1080P]

The Runco D-113d 3-D Front Projector has been added to the list

(Starting MSRP of $199,995. Optional items are CineWide and CineWide with Autosope)

Key features

1. Offers true native 24fps for each eye in 2D and 3D without the need to triple flash. The Runco dual light source 24fps system with no black time equals no flicker for 2-D 24fps sources and 48fps 3-D sources.

2. Full 1080P passive glasses technology.

3. Panavision 3D technology uses passive glasses without polarization so any white or silver screen can be used for both 3-D and 2-D.

4. Extremely bright 3-D picture.

5. In theory the Runco D-113d 3-D Front projector will end up being the best consumer 3-D projector in 2011 in terms of picture quality. A professional review will need to verify if the Runco D-113d is truly the best of the best in consumer 3-D projectors for the year 2011.

More details about the Runco D-113d 3-D Front Projector can be found on pages 33 and 34 of the October 2011 Widescreen Review magazine.

Click here to read the September 8th 2011 Runco D-113d press release