The Shining (1980)

[Robert S]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

What I dislike, some of which I absolutely HATE:

12:07 (5 min, 33 sec)
40:35 (38 sec)
51:18 (1 min, 24 sec)
78:55 (12 sec)
91:40 (2 min, 28 sec) - This scene is absolutely horrible.

[Show spoiler]He wanted us to know Wendy's intentions, but a soliloquy of Wendy talking to herself out loud was so uber-corny. If he really wanted us to know her intentions, a voice inside her head like when Halloran says "How'd you like some ice cream, doc?" would've worked much better.

94:56 (54 sec)
96:12 (2 min, 32 sec)
99:29 (1 min, 47 sec)
133:27 (19 sec) - The worst and corniest part of the movie. Even Wendy's scream is acted out so badly and seems forced.

That's the one scene I really miss from the US cut. One of the most quietly eerie moments in the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But I think that a 'dual version' edition will be a hard sell for the exact reasons we've seen in this thread: people who like the long version simply won't want the shorter cut.

I *suspect* this is the reason why the US version is still in circulation - the horse had bolted, so to speak. Considering Kubrick wouldn't allow the US version to be shown elsewhere, I'm seriously doubtful that this was his preferred version. Then again, perhaps he simply didn't want to be accused of dithering.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by Robert S

I *suspect* this is the reason why the US version is still in circulation - the horse had bolted, so to speak. Considering Kubrick wouldn't allow the US version to be shown elsewhere, I'm seriously doubtful that this was his preferred version. Then again, perhaps he simply didn't want to be accused of dithering.

Learn something new everyday.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert S

There are good arguments in favour of both versions, but I find the international cut the more intense and disturbing film - the second half is reconfigured to bring the audience closer to Jack's darkly comic breakdown, trimming the scenes that focus on Wendy and Danny's plight, therefore dulling our empathy for them. I always wonder who I'm rooting for during those final scenes!

I also like the nervous rhythm of the shorter version, even if the overall effect is perhaps a little less hypnotic. The film's beyond brilliant either way.

Well said, sir. The short version is a little more skittish, more jumpy, but if you're on the wavelength of the longer version then it can have that mesmeric pull which Kubrick's work is famed for.

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by MrHT

What's ironic is that BDs don't use two layers glued together. That was just DVDs. BDs use one big thick layer with a protective coating placed on top. If anything, it looks like the coating is separating or something. So far, it still plays, but for how long... who knows?

Ah, I did not know that. My bad. Thanks for the info!

I don't think I have ever had a DVD rot on me, though to be fair I have quite a lot DVDs I probably haven't touched in 10 years, so who knows whether they work now.

Rot was hell on laserdisc, though.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by Robert S

There are good arguments in favour of both versions, but I find the international cut the more intense and disturbing film - the second half is reconfigured to bring the audience closer to Jack's darkly comic breakdown, trimming the scenes that focus on Wendy and Danny's plight, therefore dulling our empathy for them. I always wonder who I'm rooting for during those final scenes!

I also like the nervous rhythm of the shorter version, even if the overall effect is perhaps a little less hypnotic. The film's beyond brilliant either way.

My take is that I am rooting for the whole family, but the place clearly has intentions to keep Jack. It did not care what happened to them as long as Jack remains. That dynamic is better fleshed out with a longer version, and it makes more sense with the cut scene at the end with the tennis ball. To me, this is the best horror film ever made. It is rare for a horror film to be played straight and also be intellectual. I also like Kubrick's films in that nothing is spoon fed to the viewer, and it is up to them to interpret what it means.

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well said, sir. The short version is a little more skittish, more jumpy, but if you're on the wavelength of the longer version then it can have that mesmeric pull which Kubrick's work is famed for.

That mesmeric pull is exactly what makes the movie work. In the U.S. version Jack was all sorts of messed up before he even got to the hotel (alcoholic, etc.). That slow dreamlike pace is what pulled us as the viewers into his escalating madness. I didn't buy his craziness in the European cut. He wasn't an alcoholic. He just went crazy instantly for no reason.

[Geoff D]

I appreciate that, but one of the main criticisms that people level at the film is the casting of Jack Nicholson, because the cat seems crazy from the get-go. I love what he did, more importantly Kubrick loved what he did, but it rubs some people (usually die hard fans of the book) up the wrong way.

[MrHT]

[Oscar Rothman]

Originally Posted by shogun123

Kubrick was a master mason and this was why he had full powers over his films

You are a riot!

He also directed the fake moon landing, right?

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Yes. That's what I meant when I wrote "how it was first received here in the us"

He's still a human being and wanted to please people from a business standpoint. He's still a brand. So he tinkered with it in hopes the reviews in europe would fare better.

But there's no way he spent years adaptining and making and editing this film in the meticulous way we all know, only to go "Oops, I made it too long. I better edit it for European theaters"

I really do not understand why everybody seem to want to convince themselves that the version they like is also the real version the Kubrick would have preferred.

Any amount of justification really seem irrelevant. I don't mind have a preferred version of something that maybe at odds of a director. But when there really is no way to know if he had a preferred version or even cared, it seems little reason to try rationalize what really would be his preferred version.

Just enjoy which ever version, I can understand the debate about why one maybe better over the other to some people but the idea of trying to tie it back to what Kubrick would have preferred really seems useless

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I appreciate that, but one of the main criticisms that people level at the film is the casting of Jack Nicholson, because the cat seems crazy from the get-go. I love what he did, more importantly Kubrick loved what he did, but it rubs some people (usually die hard fans of the book) up the wrong way.

The Shining without Jack?! Unthinkable!

All this talk of The Shining is really making me want to see it again - and with Halloween coming up there's no excuse really!

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Robert S

That's the one scene I really miss from the US cut. One of the most quietly eerie moments in the whole thing.

I agree. The scene in itself is quite nice, but the fact that it has TV ruins the whole sense of claustrophobia and isolation of the characters. For such a long time I thought that the characters were completely isolated without any TV. But then after I saw the US cut for the first time and saw that they had access to news reports and knew what was happening in the outside world, which made the atmosphere not quite at scary for me.

Again, that's what I thought was the whole point of the Simpsons "No TV and no beer make Homer go crazy" joke from The Shinning, which I also saw before I saw the US cut.

[shogun123]

Originally Posted by jdc115

I really do not understand why everybody seem to want to convince themselves that the version they like is also the real version the Kubrick would have preferred.

Exactly. I prefer the US cut and at the same time am able to admit that the Euro cut is Kubrick's preferred version.

[spanky87]

Where can I see this european cut? Is it available in HD?

[shogun123]

Originally Posted by spanky87

Where can I see this european cut? Is it available in HD?

You can buy the blu ray from Amazon UK or you could go the non-legal route.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by shogun123

You can buy the blu ray from Amazon UK or you could go the non-legal route.

Oh yeah thats right. Totally forgot about the UK blu. The transfer is on par with the US?

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I agree. The scene in itself is quite nice, but the fact that it has TV ruins the whole sense of claustrophobia and isolation of the characters. For such a long time I thought that the characters were completely isolated without any TV. But then after I saw the US cut for the first time and saw that they had access to news reports and knew what was happening in the outside world, which made the atmosphere not quite at scary for me.

Again, that's what I thought was the whole point of the Simpsons "No TV and no beer make Homer go crazy" joke from The Shinning, which I also saw before I saw the US cut.

But do you really expect a five Star hotel to not have a working TV? Hell, there should have been one in every room!

And especially there should be a working tv before the storm comes, no?

[shogun123]

Originally Posted by spanky87

Oh yeah thats right. Totally forgot about the UK blu. The transfer is on par with the US?

Exact same PQ and SQ

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

But do you really expect a five Star hotel to not have a working TV? Hell, there should have been one in every room!

And especially there should be a working tv before the storm comes, no?

Who would "expect" a pointlessly isolated hotel like that to begin with?

There aren't that many minutes where a working TV is shown in the movie, only 2-3 minutes and I don't think that it's a coincidence that all of them have been deleted from the shortened cut - to increase the sense of isolation claustrophobia.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Who would "expect" a pointlessly isolated hotel like that to begin with?

There aren't that many minutes where a working TV is shown in the movie, only 2-3 minutes and I don't think that it's a coincidence that all of them have been deleted from the shortened cut - to increase the sense of isolation claustrophobia.

HaaAaaa that's true about the hotel. If its not for skiing and its out of the way of any city, who is staying there and why? Business men sure aren't.

But, I don't mind the TVs. Television is a one-way medium. No different than if they had a turn table.

Plus they needed to show Wendy watching the news on the hotel kitchen TV so we can learn of the storm coming... which also works as a great metaphor.

Phone and CB Radios create less isolation... and Kubrick showed them.

Another film which utilizes great use of isolation is The Thing. And I think they have the crew watching a TV at some point.. I know they crank music .