Commentary from the Insiders Thread

[RUR]

Originally Posted by amillians

Attention Team Blu: you'll soon get your own "your yields suck too" bullet point.

Word has leaked that The DVD Forum's WG-11 has approved HD DVD TL51 (the triple layer 51GB varient) as well as the TL HD/DVD combo format...the formal approval is forthcoming, but it's apparently a done deal, and yes, as expected, there's an excellent chance that players using G1 OPUs/controllers will be left in the cold on TL51 due to the inability to correct enough for spherical aberation.

Alex, that is hilarious! I must've been hallucinating the past few months when Amir and his minions went on and on about how completely unnecessary those GB were. It also neatly moots HD DVD's incessant rant about BD player owners' purported rebellion when their players won't execute 1.1 tasks, since a fairly huge number of HD DVD owners will have players which won't play movies on TL discs at all, no?

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by amillians

Attention Team Blu: you'll soon get your own "your yields suck too" bullet point.

Word has leaked that The DVD Forum's WG-11 has approved HD DVD TL51 (the triple layer 51GB varient) as well as the TL HD/DVD combo format...the formal approval is forthcoming, but it's apparently a done deal, and yes, as expected, there's an excellent chance that players using G1 OPUs/controllers will be left in the cold on TL51 due to the inability to correct enough for spherical aberation.

Thanks for the info Alex, it's always appreciated.

[GaS]

Originally Posted by amillians

Attention Team Blu: you'll soon get your own "your yields suck too" bullet point.

Word has leaked that The DVD Forum's WG-11 has approved HD DVD TL51 (the triple layer 51GB varient) as well as the TL HD/DVD combo format...the formal approval is forthcoming, but it's apparently a done deal, and yes, as expected, there's an excellent chance that players using G1 OPUs/controllers will be left in the cold on TL51 due to the inability to correct enough for spherical aberation.

Hell, they can't even get the stuff currently in spec to play reliably on all players. This should be interesting.

[Razzy]

Originally Posted by amillians

Attention Team Blu: you'll soon get your own "your yields suck too" bullet point.

Word has leaked that The DVD Forum's WG-11 has approved HD DVD TL51 (the triple layer 51GB varient) as well as the TL HD/DVD combo format...the formal approval is forthcoming, but it's apparently a done deal, and yes, as expected, there's an excellent chance that players using G1 OPUs/controllers will be left in the cold on TL51 due to the inability to correct enough for spherical aberation.

So was this the "huge news" they were giggling about over at AVS?

[Proteus]

It was only the TL51 that was approved according to the statement. The combo won't be approved until an expected timeframe of 'before the end of the year'.

Getting to the point of implementation on these is probably at _least_ a six month process if not longer given all of the manufacturing issues and such that arise.

Frankly, HDDVD could be dead in the water by the time these see the market.

The date of approval (Aug. 31) is telling also. CE manufacturers have all known about this I'm sure (probably knew long before it was approved when it would be) and still have chosen to only make Blu-ray players.

This also flies smack in the face of HDDVD's argument that they are a 'finished spec' when they just released a new spec that is not necessarily compatible with today's players. I suspect this is why a press release was not initially done upon approval. It's only getting out now via rumors finally being confirmed. Obviously, this was not meant for public disclosure just yet... If I were HDDVD inc. I wouldn't be getting too worked up about this right now. Might be in for a big let down.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by amillians

Attention Team Blu: you'll soon get your own "your yields suck too" bullet point.

Word has leaked that The DVD Forum's WG-11 has approved HD DVD TL51 (the triple layer 51GB varient) as well as the TL HD/DVD combo format...the formal approval is forthcoming, but it's apparently a done deal, and yes, as expected, there's an excellent chance that players using G1 OPUs/controllers will be left in the cold on TL51 due to the inability to correct enough for spherical aberation.

Did they approve a bandwidth boost, or is this a marketting bullet that may never be used beyond the combo form?

How about the add-on and the LG drives?

And which form are they planning for the twin? SL DVD + DL HD DVD or DL DVD and SL HD DVD?

After all, we all "know" how "crappy" MPEG-2 is. Or are all the walls falling here?

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

^^^ PLEASE New Line. TL51 Lord of the Rings. Then we can get a half-decent port.

Gary

[The Guardian]

Of course this won't help their other issues will it? In other words they could up the LENGTH of the movie put on a disc with a TL disc, but they can't up the visual quality, correct?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by The Guardian

Of course this won't help their other issues will it? In other words they could up the LENGTH of the movie put on a disc with a TL disc, but they can't up the visual quality, correct?

Don't know. Amir was implying and pushing early on for a bandwidth increase too. But, that would probably make all the current players incompatible.

[David Vaughn]

Originally Posted by gand41f

Proteus, see my post above (#1126). He is not lying that 1080i60 has the same amount of information as 1080p24 (or 1080p60 generated by the player from 1080p24 on the disc). What he failed to mention that, most consumer devices out there cannot correctly put the 1080i60 back into 1080p (either in 60Hz or multiple of 24Hz). Thus, you can both be right -- you can see a difference between 1080p and 1080i, and he cannot.

It's almost like the DTS-HD MA vs. uncompressed PCM situation. Technically they contain the exact same amount of information, but the vast majority of devices out there cannot decode DTS-HD MA, thus people only hear the lossless core. So one guy can claim they hear the difference, another can claim they don't, and they both can be right.

My opinion is that 1080p output is still a very good thing for the players. People who buy 1080i players are more likely to be buying cheap displays that cannot do inverse telecine correctly, so they will be watching HD DVD in (essentially) 540p for a long while (maybe forever, given how low in priority inverse telecine seems to be for TV manufacturers). Ironically, only people who have real high-end displays can purchase a low-end 1080i player and not notice a difference.

enjoy
gandalf

Very well stated and extremely accurate. I use the PS3 set to 1080p/24 and a Toshiba HDA1 for HD DVD playback. When I review a movie that is dual format and I have both discs on hand, which movie do you think I pop in first? Into the player that starts the movie instantly or the one that allows me to take a nap during the boot-up?

But once the A1 is playing, it is a decent player. Not great, but it does the job. I won't buy another HD DVD player until it does 1080p without a 1080p to 1080i back to 1080p solution. I may hold out for the Onkyo player for this reason and also so it can output bitstream over HDMI...I will be reviewing the Integra 9.8 soon and look forward to testing this ability out.

[Brain Sturgeon]

So 30GB isn't enough then?

[dialog_gvf]

^^^ Tee hee, apparently not.

Originally Posted by RUR

Amillians posted elsewhere here that, as expected, G1 players won't be able to handle the TL discs, so they had better not put movies on them or the fur will fly.

What is a few people not being able to play a movie? I mean we're not talking about something vital like PiP not being able to be displayed, right?

[dialog_gvf]

So, is all this BD50 FUD a head fake to draw attention away from extremely bad TL51 yields?

Unless they changed something, TL51 is a DVD-14 form factor, so a DL and SL glued together with an optically transparent glue layer.

Think of the yield problems with that.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

So, is all this BD50 FUD a head fake to draw attention away from extremely bad TL51 yields?

Unless they changed something, TL51 is a DVD-14 form factor, so a DL and SL glued together with an optically transparent glue layer.

Think of the yield problems with that.

A triple-layer disc type should have double the rejects due to layer glueing etc over a double-layer disc, right?

I really am curious to see if they upped the bandwidth.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

What is a few people not being able to play a movie? I mean we're not talking about something vital like PiP not being able to be displayed, right?

Exactly. This could be fun.

There must not be a GB gap!

[The Guardian]

Oh, and who cares if all current players won't be able to play these new movies. These are just the "early EARLY adopters" and it's only going to be important when we get to the "early adopters".

[radagast]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Did they approve a bandwidth boost, or is this a marketting bullet that may never be used beyond the combo form?

How about the add-on and the LG drives?

And which form are they planning for the twin? SL DVD + DL HD DVD or DL DVD and SL HD DVD?

After all, we all "know" how "crappy" MPEG-2 is. Or are all the walls falling here?

Gary

Wait a minute. Who said anything about recordable hd-dvds? I don't see that in the original post.

Furthermore, I will bet a buck or two that anyone buying a cheap hd-dvd player from China is going to be pissed when they find out they can't play a three layer hd-dvd.

[Fozziwig]

Originally Posted by shamus

Insiders, I hate to post "rumors", but should we be preparing for some more bad news????????

The only event that would warrant the kind of language jampot was using would be studio movement. Given that it is BIG news for HD DVD that would have to be one of the following (in order of probability):

New Line announce HD DVD exclusivity with LOTR as first title(s).
Warner go HD DVD exclusive
Disney or Fox (or both) go dual format

I don't see any of that likely, based on recent events (except maybe the New Line event), but anything can happen these days.

If it isn't a studio move then it's really a low level event - TL51 has been mentioned (that would be a NONE event), maybe more CE's switching to HD DVD production?

[dialog_gvf]

Old document on the TL45 process

Note the bonding with a L2 substrate.

Gary

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Teazle

A triple-layer disc type should have double the rejects due to layer glueing etc over a double-layer disc, right?

I really am curious to see if they upped the bandwidth.

Bring it on!!! Haven't two different companies already successfully demonstrated a 100gb four-layer Blu disc?