T2 ROTF Audio Poll

[ClaytonMG]

I seriously am doubting that DRC was applied to the soundtrack. For one, dialogue would be much, MUCH easier to hear, not the opposite. And two, there were a couple of moments in the film with incredibly loud sound effects. One is in the first 2 minutes when we're first introduced to the fallen. If DRC was applied, those scenes wouldn't be nearly as loud or powerful.

[BozQ]

I think it's just a placebo effect altogether.
Yes, the Dialnorm affected the initial experience, but even after volume matching, the mind doesn't want to accept it's the same.

Anyway, I can't tell for now. My copy will only arrive in two weeks time.

[HDPlasma]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Dialnorm affects the entire soundtrack, it's not just dialog. It's called that because it establishes the decible zone where speech falls.

Thanks for the clarification of Dialnorm.

[DualEdge]

Okay, so just to clarify (I haven't watched my IMAX copy yet), are you all talking about raising the center channel by +4db to compensate for dialnorm or the entire soundstage?

[Jeff Kleist]

How is that possible since IMAX theaters dont use subwoofers (according to FilmMixer)? According to him, all the bass is mixed into the mains in the IMAX version for the commercial theater version.......Wouldnt you have to remix it to get a discrete .1 channel for the constant AR version for the standard theaters? Please explain this to me.

IMAX does have subwoofers, and if it does lack a discrete sub channel, that would be handled after the mix is delivered to IMAX

3)#3 could potentially be false, because if I recall correctly, DRC is a Dolby thing and not DTS.

DRC is not a feature of DTS correct

Okay, so just to clarify (I haven't watched my IMAX copy yet), are you all talking about raising the center channel by +4db to compensate for dialnorm or the entire soundstage?

Push volume button up 4 times. Problem solved

[MrRoy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Push volume button up 4 times. Problem solved

Simplicity at its best...gotta love it .

[progers13]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

IMAX does have subwoofers, and if it does lack a discrete sub channel, that would be handled after the mix is delivered to IMAX



DRC is not a feature of DTS correct



Push volume button up 4 times. Problem solved

Thanks...that's what I've been trying to find out

[EWL5]

Ok folks. I've finally caught up to all the comments and I recall only a handful of people really stating what is going on. First of all, I don't believe that the current issue is a dialnorm issue. My experience has been that the audio is all over the place in consistency but the biggest example is the opening sequence in China as others have stated. I recall mid to high frequencies having their appropriate impact but the LFE is a bit "shy." This reminds me of the earlier generation UniPhier players that had that darn LFE bug when outputing PCM over HDMI (LFE was down by -10dB). Unfortunately, my system does not have that bug and I am using an Oppo BDP83 multichannel analog out to a Rotel receiver with the Oppo doing the decoding. Oddly enough, this reduction in LFE occured during a non-IMAX scene! The LFE returned but then was absent in other areas where you expect it to be.

In my opinion, the issue is with how the IMAX soundtrack was mixed and mastered. That LFE is too low in certain places and that is why some action sequences lose their impact. It is not a volume issue as I am very sensitive to where frequencies should be and having the correct treble mid-bass range tied to LFE-starved frequencies jumped out at me like the aformentioned LFE bug. Does anyone out there feel the same way?

I have the capability of switching to the digital input (optical) to the Rotel on the fly so I'll compare the lossless DTS-HD MA track against the "core." If the "core" sounds normal, then there is something wrong with the DTS-HD MA extensions.

[progers13]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Ok folks. I've finally caught up to all the comments and I recall only a handful of people really stating what is going on. First of all, I don't believe that the current issue is a dialnorm issue. My experience has been that the audio is all over the place in consistency but the biggest example is the opening sequence in China as others have stated. I recall mid to high frequencies having their appropriate impact but the LFE is a bit "shy." This reminds me of the earlier generation UniPhier players that had that darn LFE bug when outputing PCM over HDMI (LFE was down by -10dB). Unfortunately, my system does not have that bug and I am using an Oppo BDP83 multichannel analog out to a Rotel receiver with the Oppo doing the decoding. Oddly enough, this reduction in LFE occured during a non-IMAX scene! The LFE returned but then was absent in other areas where you expect it to be.

In my opinion, the issue is with how the IMAX soundtrack was mixed and mastered. That LFE is too low in certain places and that is why some action sequences lose their impact. It is not a volume issue as I am very sensitive to where frequencies should be and having the correct treble mid-bass range tied to LFE-starved frequencies jumped out at me like the aformentioned LFE bug. Does anyone out there feel the same way?

I have the capability of switching to the digital input (optical) to the Rotel on the fly so I'll compare the lossless DTS-HD MA track against the "core." If the "core" sounds normal, then there is something wrong with the DTS-HD MA extensions.

If this is the case, my AVR has a setting in the HDMI window that adds +10 db for the PCM signals. I usually keep it off because turning it on makes my blus too heavy (or other media too soft). In this case, it may very well solve the issue. Anyone else know about this feature in the AVR? Or am I way off base again...as usual...

[ClaytonMG]

What I find odd is the fact that people are making the same complaints about the bass that they made about the first film. When viewing both, I have never once thought any scene was lacking bass. I am starting to think this film is mixed the same way as the first, where the bass is sent more to the main speakers than to the sub and people don't have their speaker size/crossover settings correct. That could easily cause the bass to be there in some scenes and not others.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by progers13

If this is the case, my AVR has a setting in the HDMI window that adds +10 db for the PCM signals. I usually keep it off because turning it on makes my blus too heavy (or other media too soft). In this case, it may very well solve the issue. Anyone else know about this feature in the AVR? Or am I way off base again...as usual...

The problem I am describing cannot be fixed by the end user as the problem exists in the source. We are not getting the full range of frequencies at the same levels. It appears to me frequencies ~100-200Hz and lower are being output about 10dB lower than the frequencies above.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Ok folks. I've finally caught up to all the comments and I recall only a handful of people really stating what is going on. First of all, I don't believe that the current issue is a dialnorm issue. My experience has been that the audio is all over the place in consistency but the biggest example is the opening sequence in China as others have stated. I recall mid to high frequencies having their appropriate impact but the LFE is a bit "shy." This reminds me of the earlier generation UniPhier players that had that darn LFE bug when outputing PCM over HDMI (LFE was down by -10dB). Unfortunately, my system does not have that bug and I am using an Oppo BDP83 multichannel analog out to a Rotel receiver with the Oppo doing the decoding. Oddly enough, this reduction in LFE occured during a non-IMAX scene! The LFE returned but then was absent in other areas where you expect it to be.

In my opinion, the issue is with how the IMAX soundtrack was mixed and mastered. That LFE is too low in certain places and that is why some action sequences lose their impact. It is not a volume issue as I am very sensitive to where frequencies should be and having the correct treble mid-bass range tied to LFE-starved frequencies jumped out at me like the aformentioned LFE bug. Does anyone out there feel the same way?

I have the capability of switching to the digital input (optical) to the Rotel on the fly so I'll compare the lossless DTS-HD MA track against the "core." If the "core" sounds normal, then there is something wrong with the DTS-HD MA extensions.

I hate when I'm right. Just toggled the film back and forth b/w the lossless DTS-HD MA over analog and DTS "core" over optical. No contest. The DTS "core" had all the impact and LFE I was expecting. Anyone with a PS3 can try connecting an optical cable to their AVR and toggle b/w outputting PCM decoded lossless MA and "core" DTS over optical. Here are some choice scenes:

1) In the beginning battle when Optimus jumps across the giant Decepticon, rumbling from the tires can be heard whereas the impact is entirely lost in the lossless track.
2) In the IMAX sequence when Optimus battles Megatron, Optimus grabs a tree and pummels Megatron, followed by great metal reverberation. You won't get that with the lossless track.
3) In the desert sequence, Starscream flys over and emits an EMP. You know the rest...

I was wrong about one thing. LFE from a certain frequency down wasn't missing from choice scenes, it was missing throughout the whole track! It's just that action sequences where you expected it were more pronounce. So the "core" track sounds great and as you expect. I don't expect we will somehow get the correct extensions for MA to get back the LFE? I'm hoping a firmware update will solve the issue but since the problem seems to be in the source, it looks like a recall may be imminent.

[webmaster@michaelbay]

Just got a call from Paramount, and I'll post their explanation @michaelbay.com of what happened in regards to the audio in the Walmart Imax Blu-ray.

The gist: The technician encoded the Imax version at -31db and the regular version at -27db. Why? Who knows.

[RokHD]

I have Sony 350 bitstreaming into Onkyo 805 , just dialog sounds low on DTS-MA only, tryed other languages and they sound loud and clear.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by webmaster@michaelbay

Just got a call from Paramount, and I'll post their explanation @michaelbay.com of what happened in regards to the audio in the Walmart Imax Blu-ray.

The gist: The technician encoded the Imax version at -31db and the regular version at -27db. Why? Who knows.

I don't buy that. Anyone who compares the lossless MA track against a volume matched lossy "core" track knows what I'm talking about.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by EWL5

I don't buy that. Anyone who compares the lossless MA track against a volume matched lossy "core" track knows what I'm talking about.

You know the core basically gets worked back into the track, right? Any flaws like less bass would happen on the core track as well. If you're using a PS3, when the receiver decodes the core, your receiver might be adjusting for Dialnorm but when playing the lossless track, the PS3 is decoding and isn't sending the metadata over to the receiver for the dialnorm adjustment.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

You know the core basically gets worked back into the track, right? Any flaws like less bass would happen on the core track as well. If you're using a PS3, when the receiver decodes the core, your receiver might be adjusting for Dialnorm but when playing the lossless track, the PS3 is decoding and isn't sending the metadata over to the receiver for the dialnorm adjustment.

I'm using an Oppo BDP83 with analog output to a Rotel receiver. I'll try the disc in my Denon 3800 and send PCM over HDMI to my Pioneer receiver in the living room tomorrow evening.

Hopefully FilmMixer can explain why the DTS "core" sounds fine while the MA extension does not.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by EWL5

I'm using an Oppo BDP83 with analog output to a Rotel receiver. I'll try the disc in my Denon 3800 and send PCM over HDMI to my Pioneer receiver in the living room tomorrow evening.

Hopefully FilmMixer can explain why the DTS "core" sounds fine while the MA extension does not.

Actually, in my experiences with analog outputs, it's much, MUCH harder to calibrate them. I've tried with my HD-A1 and my BDP-S1 and the bass is never right and I can never get it powerful enough (or I do, but then the settings for everything else are wrong).

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by webmaster@michaelbay

Just got a call from Paramount, and I'll post their explanation @michaelbay.com of what happened in regards to the audio in the Walmart Imax Blu-ray.

The gist: The technician encoded the Imax version at -31db and the regular version at -27db. Why? Who knows.

I don't see it anywhere over there. Where exactly did you post it?

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by EWL5

I'm using an Oppo BDP83 with analog output to a Rotel receiver. I'll try the disc in my Denon 3800 and send PCM over HDMI to my Pioneer receiver in the living room tomorrow evening.

Hopefully FilmMixer can explain why the DTS "core" sounds fine while the MA extension does not.

All bets are off when using analog from my experience......I think your issue is setup/equip related in all honesty.