UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[shredking9000]

I'll definitely upgrade to UHD, eventually. I'm not really one to adopt things at launch; while I had a blu-ray player (PS3) since 2007, I didn't switch from DVDs until late 2008/early 2009. If it sticks and is still around in 2-3 years, I'll be happy to switch over to UHD; I just don't want to invest in a format that ends up abandoned after 2 or 3 years.

As far as my current BD buying is concerned, I have no intention of "holding off" for UHD. Some of my favorite movies are just now coming out on BD, after close to a decade. Not waiting another 9+ years to upgrade my DVDs.

[The Debts]

YouTube

[GC Riot]

CD's are still being made. How does the market look for DVD-Audio or SACD? Most people buy their music on iTunes, which is inferior to CD's in quality. Better doesn't always mean it'll be the more adopted format. I think there will be a market for UHDBD, but I think it will be very limited, and most people will stick to DVD or Blu-ray, and a lot of people will stick with streaming. Remember, when people jumped from DVD to BD, streaming wasn't even close to where it is today.

For most people, DVD is good enough, for most of the rest, BD is good enough, and for a very, very small percentage, UHDBD will be a dream come true. If there's not a market for these discs however, then the pickings will be slim. I can actually see UHDBD failing unless the studios actually force it upon us, which they won't, because they're not THAT stupid.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

CD's are still being made. How does the market look for DVD-Audio or SACD? Most people buy their music on iTunes, which is inferior to CD's in quality. Better doesn't always mean it'll be the more adopted format. I think there will be a market for UHDBD, but I think it will be very limited, and most people will stick to DVD or Blu-ray, and a lot of people will stick with streaming. Remember, when people jumped from DVD to BD, streaming wasn't even close to where it is today.

For most people, DVD is good enough, for most of the rest, BD is good enough, and for a very, very small percentage, UHDBD will be a dream come true. If there's not a market for these discs however, then the pickings will be slim. I can actually see UHDBD failing unless the studios actually force it upon us, which they won't, because they're not THAT stupid.

I don't think it's fair to compare audio to video. CDs were already a very near perfect format. 99.9% of people can't tell ANY difference between iTunes and a CD, 99.9999% of people can't tell ANY difference between a CD and a DVD-audio.


but video is much more in your face, and especially with larger and larger tvs becoming cheaper and cheaper, the difference in quality is much more visible.

If even not everybody can tell the difference, or even if the majority can't tell the difference, there are still more than enough people who can, unlike DVD audio.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by spectre08

I don't think it's fair to compare audio to video. CDs were already a very near perfect format. 99.9% of people can't tell ANY difference between iTunes and a CD, 99.9999% of people can't tell ANY difference between a CD and a DVD-audio.


but video is much more in your face, and especially with larger and larger tvs becoming cheaper and cheaper, the difference in quality is much more visible.

If even not everybody can tell the difference, or even if the majority can't tell the difference, there are still more than enough people who can, unlike DVD audio.

Fair enough, but do we think UHDBD will be enough of an upgrade to get most people to take the plunge? As has been stated, DVD's usually still outsell BD's with a 70% market share, proving that a lot of people just want the title on a disc, and don't care about the quality.
It's not like it's a cheap process for the studios either. 4K remastering ins't exactly cheap for catalog titles, and with a limited market, the studios will have to consider what will make a profit etc.
I know I'm sounding skeptical, but I can't really see UHDBD's flying off the shelves anytime soon.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

4K remastering ins't exactly cheap for catalog titles, and with a limited market, the studios will have to consider what will make a profit etc.

I don't foresee many catalog titles getting UHDBD releases but new releases are a different story. Even as a niche format it's likely that most major new releases will get UHDBD releases. As time goes on more and more theaters will upgrade to 4K screens so studios will have 4K masters of new releases for theatrical showings. It isn't a huge stretch to put those 4K masters on discs.

While I'd prefer as many titles as possible to get UHDBD releases (new releases and catalog titles), it will still be worth it for me if only the major new releases come out on UHDBD.

[borjis]

in my opinion only, from a distance of 8 feet the difference between a great Blu-Ray and UHD isn't that much and subtle at best.

The only real difference being that if I sit 2 feet from the screen, the UHD retains the detail better.

I'll wait until HDR content & standards are the norm before feeling any urge to get new equipment.

[FatalSpiderbite]

I haven't quit buying DVDs so I surely won't quit buying BDs.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by spectre08

I don't think it's fair to compare audio to video. CDs were already a very near perfect format. 99.9% of people can't tell ANY difference between iTunes and a CD, 99.9999% of people can't tell ANY difference between a CD and a DVD-audio.


but video is much more in your face, and especially with larger and larger tvs becoming cheaper and cheaper, the difference in quality is much more visible.

If even not everybody can tell the difference, or even if the majority can't tell the difference, there are still more than enough people who can, unlike DVD audio.

Part of the "I can't tell the difference" in audio is that the vast majority of people don't own expensive stereo systems, nor will they ever. Certainly the need or want for convenience and portability are the main drivers, but hard-drive and memory space continue to expand and stay cheap. I suspect at some point, services like iTunes will eventually up their bit rate/sampling frequencies. The problem is a lot of pop/rock recordings have a ton of compression on them and were not recorded/mixed with transparency and wide soundstage in mind. As long as it's loud, pumping and portable. People just want one file that they can play everywhere at any time, and that's actually one good thing in that one can plug in a USB flash drive into your computer, your car or your stereo and play the same file.

[doctor_who]

I think something that people are forgetting is that while the difference between blu-ray and dvd might have been hard to see for some people who never got into blu-ray, the difference between 4k and dvd is pretty astounding. As people start buying OLED 4k tvs, dvds will essentially become unwatchable. Sure, the people who don't care at all and keep their 720p tv for 15 years don't apply, but UHD BD might have more traction than you think. I think you could see people who didn't get into blu-ray get into UHD Blu if the prices are right. Personally, I've converted to a digital collection of most titles, but I will never get rid of some of my special edition and favorite blu-rays OR dvds, and I will also buy UHD BD if I like the look of a certain release. It will definitely be a niche format, but I think it has staying power and will be much more popular than 3d blu became.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the studios deal with 4k releases. Will 4k discs be on their own? How many special features will we get? Will we get ultimate packs with 4k + 3d + regular BD + digital HD?

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Part of the "I can't tell the difference" in audio is that the vast majority of people don't own expensive stereo systems, nor will they ever. Certainly the need or want for convenience and portability are the main drivers, but hard-drive and memory space continue to expand and stay cheap. I suspect at some point, services like iTunes will eventually up their bit rate/sampling frequencies. The problem is a lot of pop/rock recordings have a ton of compression on them and were not recorded/mixed with transparency and wide soundstage in mind. As long as it's loud, pumping and portable. People just want one file that they can play everywhere at any time, and that's actually one good thing in that one can plug in a USB flash drive into your computer, your car or your stereo and play the same file.

this is another factor that can't be understated. The video equivalent would be if all but 1% of people with tvs had 26" CRTs, and those 26" CRTs were still selling in stores everywhere.

[Andrew-Kenneth]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

CD's are still being made. How does the market look for DVD-Audio or SACD?

SACD's are still being made.

I got my first SACD player a couple of years ago, but only seriously started collecting SACD's this january.
(My collection => http://www.sa-cd.net/library/8119 )

I listen to these discs primarily on a stereo set up. (Onkyo SACD-player; Cyrus amplification & Mission speakers)

Most of these SACD's also contain multichannel sound though, so sometimes I also listen to them through my blu-ray player in my Home Theater room in 5.1.

People interested in SACD & blu-ray audio should check out sacd.net.
http://www.sa-cd.net/home
(This website lists the 10.661 sacd-discs available with links to various on-line sellers)

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by spectre08

this is another factor that can't be understated. The video equivalent would be if all but 1% of people with tvs had 26" CRTs, and those 26" CRTs were still selling in stores everywhere.

With pop/rock music in particular, people tend go for the immediate impact over details. The immediate and visceral punch if you will. The more detailed intricacies of even a pop/rock recording are generally lost due to the compression/mixing and mastering practices. There are exceptions, where you have a good pop/rock recording with dynamics that can only be made better with higher bit and sampling rates over MP3 and CD's like Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, Michael Jackson's Thriller or Lionel Ritchie's Can't Slow Down, but there are an awful lot of pop/rock recordings that are simply compressed to hell and back, mixed too tight, etc. They are clamped down and uninvolving. Same thing with video, the higher resolution, the better shape the master needs to be in. Far too often, studios have dumped old scans onto Blu-ray and it shows. You have to go back to the source, the best source that can be had and restore it.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

I think something that people are forgetting is that while the difference between blu-ray and dvd might have been hard to see for some people who never got into blu-ray, the difference between 4k and dvd is pretty astounding. As people start buying OLED 4k tvs, dvds will essentially become unwatchable. Sure, the people who don't care at all and keep their 720p tv for 15 years don't apply, but UHD BD might have more traction than you think. I think you could see people who didn't get into blu-ray get into UHD Blu if the prices are right. Personally, I've converted to a digital collection of most titles, but I will never get rid of some of my special edition and favorite blu-rays OR dvds, and I will also buy UHD BD if I like the look of a certain release. It will definitely be a niche format, but I think it has staying power and will be much more popular than 3d blu became.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the studios deal with 4k releases. Will 4k discs be on their own? How many special features will we get? Will we get
ultimate packs with 4k + 3d + regular BD + digital HD?

The question is will anyone besides an aging demographic or specific devotees be buying into the concept of maintaining a home theater? I know many younger people who are too busy streaming on their tablets and laptops to ever consider the possibility of high end televisions and sound systems. Like it or not, I don't see a lot of first hand evidence that future generations want their media bound by an established paradigm. Such things shift with each succeeding generation, of course, so who can say how this may change (no one predicted the vinyl renaissance, for example). But at the moment we are breeding those who have no patience or attention span for watching a movie without other activities going on. The idea of devoting time and effort into a quality media experience will seem as alien to them as watching a kinescope on a 19 inch CRT is to us.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

The question is will anyone besides an aging demographic or specific devotees be buying into the concept of maintaining a home theater? I know many younger people who are too busy streaming on their tablets and laptops to ever consider the possibility of high end televisions and sound systems. Like it or not, I don't see a lot of first hand evidence that future generations want their media bound by an established paradigm. Such things shift with each succeeding generation, of course, so who can say how this may change (no one predicted the vinyl renaissance, for example). But at the moment we are breeding those who have no patience or attention span for watching a movie without other activities going on. The idea of devoting time and effort into a quality media experience will seem as alien to them as watching a kinescope on a 19 inch CRT is to us.

There you go.......the younger crowd is equally, if not more so, comfortable with watching a movie on a big screen, a laptop or a tablet. A lot of us cringe, I know I do, when I see people watching a film on anything less than a big screen. I certainly can't and won't do it. I suppose if I'm confined to a hospital bed or sitting out a day in court, waiting to see if I get picked for a jury case, then a portable device like that would suffice, but other than that, it's the big screen or bust.

On a side note, it's actually understandable that the younger generation likes to watch everything on very small screens. I mean there's a whole generation of kids that grew up with portable gaming entertainment in their hands.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

No, because most of the titles on blu-ray now will most likely never make it to UHD.

I also don't like the fact that UHD players and 4K TVs will upraise existing blu to phantom 4K. While some look okay, many do not. And this is not a setting you can turn off.

How else would you possibly watch 2k blu-ray on a 4k set if it's not upscaled? Are you going to watch it in a little window in the middle of the screen? That would be the only alternative. If you want to play all your old DVD and blu-rays on your new fancy 4k set, and you want it to actually fit the screen, it needs to be upscaled.

That's one reason I hate the idea of 4k sets - it just makes our 2k discs look inferior based on resolution, just like watching DVD in VLC on our PCs make it obvious just how low resolution they are when we see it play in it's native size in a small window.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

The question is will anyone besides an aging demographic or specific devotees be buying into the concept of maintaining a home theater? I know many younger people who are too busy streaming on their tablets and laptops to ever consider the possibility of high end televisions and sound systems. Like it or not, I don't see a lot of first hand evidence that future generations want their media bound by an established paradigm. Such things shift with each succeeding generation, of course, so who can say how this may change (no one predicted the vinyl renaissance, for example). But at the moment we are breeding those who have no patience or attention span for watching a movie without other activities going on. The idea of devoting time and effort into a quality media experience will seem as alien to them as watching a kinescope on a 19 inch CRT is to us.

How many of those "younger people" are married or even living on their own (aka not a dorm or their parents' house?)

This argument has been brought up over and over (we have one poster who has beaten it into the ground at this point) and it always seems like people have forgotten the very obvious fact that young people grow up.

Kids living at home have neither the money nor the space to set up a home theater, high end or otherwise. Once they grow up and have a place of their own, do you really think they'll continue to watch movies and TV on a tablet or laptop?

[StingingVelvet]

You can turn off 4k upscaling on a player and let the TV do it itself, but yeah, either way a BD is going to be scaled to fill the screen on a 4k set.

[Spooked]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I think that's a bunch of malarkey, but what do I know.

I'm not sure, but I tend to agree with you.

With a 42" TV, I think Blu-ray will suit me just fine for as long as it's around.

[mar3o]

I would never buy into UHD discs with the insane copy protection methods in force for the format. Always-on internet connection? Discs registered to individual players? No 4k 3D format? UHD is already dead to me.

EDIT: Just learned much of this was based off an April Fool's joke.

The lack of 4k 3D is true however.