The Apartment 4K UHD (1960)

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Nit values aren't opinion.

And your opinion has no value

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

And your opinion has no value

lol

[Matt89]

F*cking clowns in this thread lol.

Imagine thinking nit values are a matter of opinion. Tell me you don't know what you're talking about without telling me you don't know what you're talking about.

~Matt

[Deciazulado]

The Apartment 4K Blu-ray

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Matt89

F*cking clowns in this thread lol.

Imagine thinking nit values are a matter of opinion. Tell me you don't know what you're talking about without telling me you don't know what you're talking about.

~Matt

I *NEVER* said nit values were opinion. I was referring to the claim that Kane is SDR in an HDR container; HDR is far more than just nit values.

Besides, even you folks admit that your measurements of Kane's nit values exceed SDR limits (though not by much) -- and I'm not convinced you're taking into account how DV's dynamic metadata can affect nit values in specific scenes.

Finally, why are you folks STILL arguing about Kane in a thread about a completely different movie? That discussion belongs in the Kane thread, not here.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

I *NEVER* said nit values were opinion. I was referring to the claim that Kane is SDR in an HDR container; HDR is far more than just nit values.

HDR is literally nit values.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by koberulz

HDR is literally nit values.

HDR in UHDBD includes wide color gamut & 10+-bit color space, both unrelated to nit values. And believe it or not, both almost as applicable to B&W as color.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

Finally, why are you folks STILL arguing about Kane in a thread about a completely different movie? That discussion belongs in the Kane thread, not here.

Everyone told you to go to the CK thread to see the details they're talking about, you refused to look at them, and then you kept arguing here in the wrong thread. How embarrassing for you.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

HDR in UHDBD includes wide color gamut & 10+-bit color space, both unrelated to nit values. And believe it or not, both almost as applicable to B&W as color.

HDR and WCG are not the same thing.

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

HDR in UHDBD includes wide color gamut & 10+-bit color space, both unrelated to nit values. And believe it or not, both almost as applicable to B&W as color.

The UHD spec was written such that HDR and WCG must be used together or not at all but they are not the same thing.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

The UHD spec was written such that HDR and WCG must be used together or not at all but they are not the same thing.

Which is why the claim I was objecting to -- that Kane is SDR in an HDR container -- is wrong.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

Everyone told you to go to the CK thread to see the details they're talking about, you refused to look at them, and then you kept arguing here in the wrong thread. How embarrassing for you.

You or a compatriot (don't feel like going back to see exactly who) started the argument in the wrong thread by suggesting Kane wasn't really HDR based on claimed nit values alone. When I called you out on it because HDR as implemented in UHDBD isn't JUST about nit values, you kept telling me to read your arguments in the Kane thread -- not only with NO link, but also IGNORING my point which was intended to STOP this ongoing argument in the wrong thread. How embarrassing for YOU!

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

You or a compatriot (don't feel like going back to see exactly who) started the argument in the wrong thread by suggesting Kane wasn't really HDR based on claimed nit values alone. When I called you out on it because HDR as implemented in UHDBD isn't JUST about nit values, you kept telling me to read your arguments in the Kane thread -- not only with NO link, but also IGNORING my point which was intended to STOP this ongoing argument in the wrong thread. How embarrassing for YOU!

Wow, you are mad, but not the angry kind. I only posted once in this thread, asking you why you don't stop, so what in the holy heck are you doing here?

[Christian Muth]

Re: 10-bit, even SDR UHDs can be 10-bit (see the overseas SDR UHD of Argento's SUSPIRIA, for example, as seen in the disc info scan here: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=12...0&a=1&go=0&l=1), so for a black and white movie like CITIZEN KANE that doesn't exploit HDR's nit potentials, there really was little to no reason to encode it in HDR, aside from being able to advertise that on the packaging.

Ditto the French UHD of POSSESSION- not HDR, but 10-bit all the same: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=15476&d2=4224&c=1332

And THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=15793&d2=15782&c=1687

10-bit is not married to WCG/HDR in the UHD spec.

Chris

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

Wow, you are mad, but not the angry kind. I only posted once in this thread, asking you why you don't stop, so what in the holy heck are you doing here?

If you weren't involved before, why did you jump in now? Just stop it already. All of you. Get back on topic.

[MrMahn]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Re: 10-bit, even SDR UHDs can be 10-bit (see the overseas SDR UHD of Argento's SUSPIRIA, for example, as seen in the disc info scan here: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=12...0&a=1&go=0&l=1), so for a black and white movie like CITIZEN KANE that doesn't exploit HDR's nit potentials, there really was little to no reason to encode it in HDR, aside from being able to advertise that on the packaging.

Ditto the French UHD of POSSESSION- not HDR, but 10-bit all the same: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=15476&d2=4224&c=1332

And THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=15793&d2=15782&c=1687

10-bit is not married to WCG/HDR in the UHD spec.

Chris

All of Criterion's Dolby Vision titles are FEL encoded. So Citizen Kane is actually 12-bit (which is not supported in SDR by the current standards in place).

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by MrMahn

All of Criterion's Dolby Vision titles are FEL encoded. So Citizen Kane is actually 12-bit (which is not supported in SDR by the current standards in place).

The caps-a-holic disc info for Criterion's CITIZEN KANE says the Dolby Vision layer is 10-bit: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=16962&d2=16781&c=6165

Chris

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

The caps-a-holic disc info for Criterion's CITIZEN KANE says the Dolby Vision layer is 10-bit. https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=16962&d2=16781&c=6165

Chris

Every DV FEL layer is encoded 10-bit for the 1920x1080 transport stream it's carried in (this is because a 12-bit transport stream is not permitted in the UHD disc specs) but the extension data within is what rebuilds the final output into 12-bit when combined with the 10-bit base layer. Whether it actually matters worth a damn in Kane's case is highly debatable, but just because of the existence of the FEL layer people keep harbouring thoughts that it somehow turns the movie into a vastly different experience. It does not. We're dealing with a duped source graded in what is barely HDR at all, 10-bit is more than enough to convey everything here.

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

The UHD spec was written such that HDR and WCG must be used together or not at all but they are not the same thing.

Nope. The UHD disc spec includes SDR 2020 encoding as well, we just don't see it very often on disc because of mastering workflows tending to be geared towards SDR 709 or HDR 2020.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Every DV FEL layer is encoded 10-bit for the 1920x1080 transport stream it's carried in (this is because a 12-bit transport stream is not permitted in the UHD disc specs) but the extension data within is what rebuilds the final output into 12-bit when combined with the 10-bit base layer. Whether it actually matters worth a damn in Kane's case is highly debatable, but just because of the existence of the FEL layer people keep harbouring thoughts that it somehow turns the movie into a vastly different experience. It does not. We're dealing with a duped source graded in what is barely HDR at all, 10-bit is more than enough to convey everything here.


Nope. The UHD disc spec includes SDR 2020 encoding as well, we just don't see it very often on disc because of mastering workflows tending to be geared towards SDR 709 or HDR 2020.

Thank you sir! I always love learning more of these technical ins and outs.

Chris

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nope. The UHD disc spec includes SDR 2020 encoding as well, we just don't see it very often on disc because of mastering workflows tending to be geared towards SDR 709 or HDR 2020.

I read somewhere you couldn’t use one without the other. Thanks for the correction.