The Official Premier Acoustics Owners thread

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by jomari

hmm. jae actually sort of answered that for you. considering that each receiver has different volume settings, different 'displays' to show how loud they are playing certain material, then we'd be all confused by the numbers being belted out.

jae basically is doing it right, using his spl meter (i believe) to measure what hes listening to.

i think he means spl meter and not decimeter. im not sure.

I have been callingit a decimeter for as long as I could remember.... decibel-meter....

[jomari]

Originally Posted by erict

When everyone talks about the word "reference" what do you mean? Can you explain this in laymen terms?

a more technical explanation on what 'reference' level is...

an excellent explanation found in a featured article...

A few words on "Reference Level"

Before we start talking about the pieces and parts, we first need to take a quick refresher on the concept of "Reference Level", as you are going to be hearing that term quite a bit in the coming paragraphs. Simply stated, Reference Level is a standard, known, predictable and reproducible playback volume level. When movie sound tracks are crafted, they are done so on systems which are locked at this level. The sound artist does not play around with a big volume knob when doing his/her work. If the sound artist wants something to be loud, they make that sound loud within the sound track. When they want something to be soft, they make that element soft within the sound track. Movie theaters set their playback level by the exact same rules, so when the movie is shown, you hear EXACTLY what the sound artist heard when they were making the piece. Loud, soft, in-between, it's all there, and no one touches the master volume knob over the course of a two-hour movie.

To achieve THX certification, components must play at this reference level without breaking, distorting, buzzing, rattling or any other distracting effects.

Reference level is by any definition, objective or subjective, quite loud. It basically mirrors the dynamic range of the studio system, which in the case of all movie sound tracks, is 105 dB. Any single channel of the system is calibrated to play 0 dB FSD (the loudest sound the sound track can contain) at 105 dB (115 dB for the LFE channel). While that is really, REALLY loud, its important to remember that there is 105 dB of dynamic range and the artist can put a sound at any level they want. So while a system's volume may be set to reference level, dialogue within the sound track can, and most often is, at a normal, natural level. Reference level, with the dynamic range available, permits a movie to have that normal, natural dialogue, and then suddenly a spectacular, loud car chase without anyone touching the volume control. Every element in the sound track comes out as it should.

Now, having said all that, watching a movie at reference level in a home theater is almost never done. It can be extremely loud to begin with, but the close spaces typical of home theaters make it perceptibly even more so. Reference level is still very important in home theater though for several reasons. Because it is the absolute loudest a sound track should ever be played, its fairly intuitive that its a good idea to have a system that can competently go that loud. It gives you a sort of "safe maximum" volume level, even though you may never push it that high. Even more important though is knowing what volume you are at RELATIVE to reference level because if we go too low, we literally lose the quietest sounds since they are pushed below the audible threshold, surrounds lose their presence, the perceived spectral distribution of the track is altered, and dialogue intelligibility suffers.

source from hometheater hifi...

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by erict

When everyone talks about the word "reference" what do you mean? Can you explain this in laymen terms?

reference is the level the rcvr displays in -dB when u match every speaker at 75dB using the rcvr test tone ,,, when u do this make sure u remember or record the dial reading of ur rcvr for future tuning

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jomari

hmm. jae actually sort of answered that for you. considering that each receiver has different volume settings, different 'displays' to show how loud they are playing certain material, then we'd be all confused by the numbers being belted out.

jae basically is doing it right, using his spl meter (i believe) to measure what hes listening to.

i think he means spl meter and not decimeter. im not sure.

Given that everyone's displays are different and all of that, but if you've calibrated your system with an SPL so that -0db on the display = 75db/reference out of the speakers, isn't that the same thing?

It's all semantics but I was trying to twist my head around that and don't know that it's necessary still. The point about seating distance and etc is valid, but shouldn't the calibration take all of that into account? Anyway, getting off topic.

[jaejw1]

well if u take into account speaker sensitivity,,,, then that is where althe fun begins

if ur speaker is 90dB 1w/1m then u will reach 75dB at a lower dialed volume fromur rcvr than u wouldif u used a speaker that was 85dB 1w/1m....

my mains are 86dB if I remember correctly,,, and I have the rest of the speakers matched to it...

playing my rcvr at 0dB on the display is just way crazy loud evenfor test tones.... so using 75dB to match speedwayeakers make more sense than 105dB since my rcvr might not have the power to push the test tone that loud..... my 75dB reference is equal to -16dB on my rcvr display...

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

well if u take into account speaker sensitivity,,,, then that is where althe fun begins

if ur speaker is 90dB 1w/1m then u will reach 75dB at a lower dialed volume fromur rcvr than u wouldif u used a speaker that was 85dB 1w/1m....

my mains are 86dB if I remember correctly,,, and I have the rest of the speakers matched to it...

playing my rcvr at 0dB on the display is just way crazy loud evenfor test tones.... so using 75dB to match speedwayeakers make more sense than 105dB since my rcvr might not have the power to push the test tone that loud..... my 75dB reference is equal to -16dB on my rcvr display...

Sure. I agree with everything you're saying. It's just that doesn't calibration via mic and SPL take into account that sensitivity? Wouldn't two systems, with relatively equal room acoustics, having been calibrated output basically the same level at the same dial setting?

It was more of a conceptual question than anything else, and I've kind of derailed the thread, but maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong.

[jomari]

in a nutshell you have to also consider
speaker impendance
sensitivity levels
AVR's power output (is it 120w, 100 or 80)
resistance.... et al.

no two rooms are the same, nor the components the comprise of it.

0db on the display of the AVR doesnt necessarily mean its at reference level.

thats why the spl meter evens the playing ground. it gives you the appropriate volume, both you and me would be listening to on an even plain. my receiver might say 40db, but yours would say 20db, and with the spl it tells us both that we're listening at a certain listening level.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jomari

in a nutshell you have to also consider
speaker impendance
sensitivity levels
AVR's power output (is it 120w, 100 or 80)
resistance.... et al.

no two rooms are the same, nor the components the comprise of it.

0db on the display of the AVR doesnt necessarily mean its at reference level.

thats why the spl meter evens the playing ground. it gives you the appropriate volume, both you and me would be listening to on an even plain. my receiver might say 40db, but yours would say 20db, and with the spl it tells us both that we're listening at a certain listening level.

K- I'll go with all of that. But what do you do when the SPL reads differently from each other? I'm only semi-teasing as I did have this happen to me with two different Radio Shack SPL's- they read about 2db difference consistently.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by aramis109

K- I'll go with all of that. But what do you do when the SPL reads differently from each other? I'm only semi-teasing as I did have this happen to me with two different Radio Shack SPL's- they read about 2db difference consistently.

were they both set at "C-weight slow"

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

were they both set at "C-weight slow"

Yup. One was a used demo unit and one was new. Used a tripod from about the same location using pink noise from my receiver.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Yup. One was a used demo unit and one was new. Used a tripod from about the same location using pink noise from my receiver.

maybe too many kids breathed oh the demo

[jomari]

Originally Posted by aramis109

K- I'll go with all of that. But what do you do when the SPL reads differently from each other? I'm only semi-teasing as I did have this happen to me with two different Radio Shack SPL's- they read about 2db difference consistently.

again. another factor. two different models of spl meters, heck maybe even the same. problem is, not all spl meters read as accurate as we'd want them to. even the radio shack analog and digital models have a variance, the same way we add +-3db on speakers. thats the hard part about our hobby, its not as precise as we'd want it to be.

there are also a number of charts indicated the 'proper' readings based on the radio shack spl meter, thats why its a great tool, due to its cost, abundance, and numerous people who've been tweaking the fine art of reading them.

hopefully this answers your question aramis, and i hope we can take this further in another thread in respect to the PA owners.

apologies for the sidetrack.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jomari

again. another factor. two different models of spl meters, heck maybe even the same. problem is, not all spl meters read as accurate as we'd want them to. even the radio shack analog and digital models have a variance, the same way we add +-3db on speakers. thats the hard part about our hobby, its not as precise as we'd want it to be.

there are also a number of charts indicated the 'proper' readings based on the radio shack spl meter, thats why its a great tool, due to its cost, abundance, and numerous people who've been tweaking the fine art of reading them.

hopefully this answers your question aramis, and i hope we can take this further in another thread in respect to the PA owners.

apologies for the sidetrack.

Meh, I'm the OP that started the thread... lol. Anyway, they're both Radio Shack digital SPL's- same model, everything. Just tossing another wrinkle in there.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Meh, I'm the OP that started the thread... lol. Anyway, they're both Radio Shack digital SPL's- same model, everything. Just tossing another wrinkle in there.

darn it

I have beenat work all this time and havent done a thing,,, except go through this forum

BTW has anyone watched MONSTERS INC. or ICE AGE MELTDOWN ... nice LFE,,, monsters INC has won it for me with the lil girl laughing

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by aramis109

K- I'll go with all of that. But what do you do when the SPL reads differently from each other? I'm only semi-teasing as I did have this happen to me with two different Radio Shack SPL's- they read about 2db difference consistently.

The problem is not limited to SPL meters. Other identical electronic equipment from the same manufacturer such as receivers, microphones included with receivers, players, speakers, etc., etc., etc. may also have some variation in performance.

Even if your SPL meter is completely off, you can still use it to calibrate your sound. The important thing is the relative sound level of each speaker with respect to the listening position, not the absolute level of sound.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The problem is not limited to SPL meters. Other identical electronic equipment from the same manufacturer such as receivers, microphones included with receivers, players, speakers, etc., etc., etc. may also have some variation in performance.

Even if your SPL meter is completely off, you can still use it to calibrate your sound. The important thing is the relative sound level of each speaker with respect to the listening position, not the absolute level of sound.

Agreed. I was mostly causing trouble when I wrote that.

jaejw, I'll agree that Ice Age: The Meltdown has some pretty awesome bass. I haven't watched Monsters, Inc in a long time (dying for that BD release) so I'll have to give it a go.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Agreed. I was mostly causing trouble when I wrote that.

jaejw, I'll agree that Ice Age: The Meltdown has some pretty awesome bass. I haven't watched Monsters, Inc in a long time (dying for that BD release) so I'll have to give it a go.

its good to have movies that are fun to watch for all ages.. and have good sound..

[jaejw1]

well... just made the plunge... bought my second pa120 today... this time i wont have to worry about when it getting here...
but i still cant wait..

next will be to update my rcvr for one with hdmi in/output

[jaejw1]

well according to the UPS site,,, my second sub should be here today.....

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

well according to the UPS site,,, my second sub should be here today.....

Wow, you wasted no time.

Watched "Taken" last night. Pretty good use of the sub. Not overpowering, but definitely strong and there- especially in the shooting and explosions department. Now that it's warmer, my windows are actually shaking at some of the bass. My wife goes, "What's wrong with the speakers?" I laughed and said, "It's not the speakers, baby, it's the house!" with this big grin on my face.



...then she started insisting I turn it down.