Torchwood: Miracle Day

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by detective392

That's what I keep hearing but would HP really make Torchwood drop? I mean how many people that saw HP Friday night could be Starz subscribers and Torchwood fans. It just doesn't seem like a large number. Hope it's true though and episode 3 goes up.

You're reversing the correlation. It should be how many Torchwood fans subscribed to Starz went to see Harry Potter Friday night.

I don't think it's 100% of the drop, but I think it's a fair portion. I know I didn't get a chance to watch the new episode until Sunday night, in spite of not getting to see Harry Potter.

Prior to the episode, there was a trailer urging people to "set your DVR". I don't think Starz cares when you watch, as long as you keep watching.

[WyldeMan45]

The premiere had low numbers so I fully expected a large drop for the second episode. It's just not accessible to new viewers. I stopped after the first episode, and I'm sure the numbers have nothing to do with Harry Potter. These numbers will continue to fall.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by WyldeMan45

The premiere had low numbers so I fully expected a large drop for the second episode. It's just not accessible to new viewers. I stopped after the first episode, and I'm sure the numbers have nothing to do with Harry Potter. These numbers will continue to fall.

Yeah I have a feeling the new season not being as good for new viewers as was said is really going to hurt the ratings.

[SpaceDog]

I'm 50/50 on the series being inaccessible to new viewers.

I do think Starz would have been wise to secure replay or On Demand rights for 1, 2, COE as part of their production deal. I'm not sure why this wasn't considered unless BBC-A still has exclusivity or Starz felt rebroadcasting previous TV programming was beneath them.

That said, speculating as someone who has seen the prior series, I don't honestly think Torchwood Miracle Day is inaccessible to new viewers. At least it wouldn't be to me if I were new. They've very plainly established the thrust of the story (people stop dying) and why it must be addressed. Torchwood is a mystery to most of the characters, thus it's not unreasonable that Torchwood is a mystery to new viewers.

Much like Gwen Cooper was used as a surrogate for viewers in series 1, Rex Matheson and Esther Drummond have assumed that role for new viewers in Miracle Day. For viewers ignorant of the first 3 series, for all they know, these characters that are new to them simply have a well developed back story.

I can't think of a specific aspect that would make it difficult for a new viewer to follow the current storyline.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I'm 50/50 on the series being inaccessible to new viewers.

I do think Starz would have been wise to secure replay or On Demand rights for 1, 2, COE as part of their production deal. I'm not sure why this wasn't considered unless BBC-A still has exclusivity or Starz felt rebroadcasting previous TV programming was beneath them.

That said, speculating as someone who has seen the prior series, I don't honestly think Torchwood Miracle Day is inaccessible to new viewers. At least it wouldn't be to me if I were new. They've very plainly established the thrust of the story (people stop dying) and why it must be addressed. Torchwood is a mystery to most of the characters, thus it's not unreasonable that Torchwood is a mystery to new viewers.

Much like Gwen Cooper was used as a surrogate for viewers in series 1, Rex Matheson and Esther Drummond have assumed that role for new viewers in Miracle Day. For viewers ignorant of the first 3 series, for all they know, these characters that are new to them simply have a well developed back story.

I can't think of a specific aspect that would make it difficult for a new viewer to follow the current storyline.

I still think the characters past and history would still be confusing to viewers as to

[Show spoiler]Jack's immortality, they wouldn't have understood anything about Jack's time vortex manipulator so all of that stuff would have flown right over there heads, why Gwen and Rhys are in hiding etc.

New viewers may think they have really good back stories but the fact is we saw/learned all this stuff and just looking up the word Torchwood on the net would easily show new viewers they are 3 seasons behind. Not saying it's unwatchable and as we get further into the season I bet it will be easier but for the first 2 episodes I would have found it confusing as a new viewer if I hadn't seen the first 3 seasons.

[detective392]

'Torchwood' sex scene cut from UK broadcast

The BBC has confirmed that it has cut a sex scene from an upcoming episode of Torchwood: Miracle Day.

The moment featured Captain Jack (John Barrowman) sleeping with a barman and is expected to be shown in the US on cable network Starz, The Sun reports.

However, the scene will be cut from the UK broadcast as it was allegedly deemed inappropriate for a primetime slot on BBC One.

"It wasn't that it was a gay scene that worried people, but just the fact that it was such an explicit sex scene full stop," a source said. "You can get away with scenes like that on American cable channels, but you can't on primetime BBC One.

"Even though the show airs after the watershed, it has a lot of young fans who would have been shocked at the graphic nature of the sex."

A BBC spokesperson confirmed that the scene will not be shown in the UK, adding that a violent moment will also be cut later in the series.

"The UK and US versions of Torchwood are slightly different," the spokesperson said. "However, these differences do not change the story in any way and the strong storylines are first and foremost to the series."

Looks like John wasn't kidding when he mentioned the sex scene being full on. Wonder how the ratings will be for that episode as I can see a lot of UK viewers downloading it. They are kinda screwing the US/UK viewers over with the US getting it uncut or them changing little things. Just happy that the Blu's will be the uncut versions of the episodes.

http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv...broadcast.html

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by detective392

I still think the characters past and history would still be confusing to viewers as to

[Show spoiler]Jack's immortality, they wouldn't have understood anything about Jack's time vortex manipulator so all of that stuff would have flown right over there heads, why Gwen and Rhys are in hiding etc.

New viewers may think they have really good back stories but the fact is we saw/learned all this stuff and just looking up the word Torchwood on the net would easily show new viewers they are 3 seasons behind. Not saying it's unwatchable and as we get further into the season I bet it will be easier but for the first 2 episodes I would have found it confusing as a new viewer if I hadn't seen the first 3 seasons.

I sort of understand where you are coming from, but on the 2 questions at hand:

1)

[Show spoiler]The Time Vortex Manipulator

- to a new viewer it's just some wristband thing that Jack wants to keep and Rex wants to take. It's a thing that Jack says monitors salt levels, but there seems to be something else going on. As it hasn't been used for anything else as of yet, I'm unsure why this would pose a question. We're creating a question on behalf of the new viewer with the knowledge that they don't have knowledge, but thus far they haven't needed it yet.

2)

[Show spoiler]Jack's Immortality

This is a bit wibbly-wobbley in the first place - at least to me. I have to watch back the whole of Doctors 9-11 & Torchwood 1-3, but while we know why, I never got the impression that we understand why.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I sort of understand where you are coming from, but on the 2 questions at hand:

1)

[Show spoiler]The Time Vortex Manipulator

- to a new viewer it's just some wristband thing that Jack wants to keep and Rex wants to take. It's a thing that Jack says monitors salt levels, but there seems to be something else going on. As it hasn't been used for anything else as of yet, I'm unsure why this would pose a question. We're creating a question on behalf of the new viewer with the knowledge that they don't have knowledge, but thus far they haven't needed it yet.

2)

[Show spoiler]Jack's Immortality

This is a bit wibbly-wobbley in the first place - at least to me. I have to watch back the whole of Doctors 9-11 & Torchwood 1-3, but while we know why, I never got the impression that we understand why.

I just brought the

[Show spoiler]vortex manipulator up becuase they seemed to make a big deal out of it in episode 2 so I'm guessing it could have an impact on a future episode or I could be wrong and they used it as a conversation/joke starter.

I haven't seen series 1 of DW but I could be wrong but I read it had something to do with

[Show spoiler]tardis energy and the Daleks or something that gave Jack his immortality and there was no special reason why it's just that he was there when it happened.

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by detective392

I just brought the

[Show spoiler]vortex manipulator up becuase they seemed to make a big deal out of it in episode 2 so I'm guessing it could have an impact on a future episode or I could be wrong and they used it as a conversation/joke starter.

I haven't seen series 1 of DW but I could be wrong but I read it had something to do with

[Show spoiler]tardis energy and the Daleks or something that gave Jack his immortality and there was no special reason why it's just that he was there when it happened.

I understand. On you first point, I do think it's a bit of the gun in the first act will go off in the third - but I think even an unitiated audience has been clued in to it's "gun-ness" even if they don't know what the gun does.

On your second point, I've seen every episode for myself, and I remember the event, but I don't remember a lot of CLARITY associated with the event. I sort of get the impression that Jack's perspective is the same. He knows it's true. He knows when and how it happened, but he doesn't really know why.

I think any show that challenges it's viewers to follow along without all the facts is always going to have difficulty - but as you watch this series and you note aspects that you understand from prior series, the question to ask is whether that understanding is required to understand the events that are transpiring now. If conceivably everything else makes sense, these factors could reasonably remain a mystery to be discovered by the new viewer.

The real issue comes in to play when half the audience is going "yes, of course!" and the other half is left saying "wait a minute, that makes no damned sense!". To my knowledge, that hasn't yet happened.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I understand. On you first point, I do think it's a bit of the gun in the first act will go off in the third - but I think even an unitiated audience has been clued in to it's "gun-ness" even if they don't know what the gun does.

On your second point, I've seen every episode for myself, and I remember the event, but I don't remember a lot of CLARITY associated with the event. I sort of get the impression that Jack's perspective is the same. He knows it's true. He knows when and how it happened, but he doesn't really know why.

I think any show that challenges it's viewers to follow along without all the facts is always going to have difficulty - but as you watch this series and you note aspects that you understand from prior series, the question to ask is whether that understanding is required to understand the events that are transpiring now. If conceivably everything else makes sense, these factors could reasonably remain a mystery to be discovered by the new viewer.

The real issue comes in to play when half the audience is going "yes, of course!" and the other half is left saying "wait a minute, that makes no damned sense!". To my knowledge, that hasn't yet happened.

Yeah I do agree that by the 3rd episode I think it won't be that hard to follow at all as we will be pretty far into the Miracle Day mystery.

Yeah audiences probably know it will be used again later and like you said they may not know what it is but know it must come into play later possible.

I get where you are coming from as from just the story perspective it's not hard to follow along within the 1st episode. I just find the characters aspect could be a little confusing at the beginning but not enough where the rest of the season will be confusing.

[SpaceDog]

It's tough to balance new viewers without overdoing exposition for returning viewers. I think they've done pretty well so far.

I'm mostly sensitive to it b/c I have friends who constantly ask about elements in films or TV shows that appear but have not yet been explained. I'm always in the position of telling them to settle down and let the story tell them.

We're accustomed to so much exposition that you can frequently watch a movie or TV show and point to 5 minutes "oh yes, that was the exposition scene". It takes deft writers, directors, and actors to accomplish more naturalistic esposition.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

It's tough to balance new viewers without overdoing exposition for returning viewers. I think they've done pretty well so far.

I'm mostly sensitive to it b/c I have friends who constantly ask about elements in films or TV shows that appear but have not yet been explained. I'm always in the position of telling them to settle down and let the story tell them.

We're accustomed to so much exposition that you can frequently watch a movie or TV show and point to 5 minutes "oh yes, that was the exposition scene". It takes deft writers, directors, and actors to accomplish more naturalistic esposition.

I get that sometimes. They ask a question for something that hasn't been explained yet and I just have to say keep watching and you'll see.

I do think Torchwood has done the best job of catering to new fans and old fans out of all other shows I have seen.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by detective392

'Torchwood' sex scene cut from UK broadcast

Looks like John wasn't kidding when he mentioned the sex scene being full on. Wonder how the ratings will be for that episode as I can see a lot of UK viewers downloading it. They are kinda screwing the US/UK viewers over with the US getting it uncut or them changing little things. Just happy that the Blu's will be the uncut versions of the episodes.

http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv...broadcast.html

Wow, guess Barrowman wasn't kidding. I actually may just watch the UK version then. I don't neccessarily need to see a random sex scene in Torchwood, but that's just me.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Wow, guess Barrowman wasn't kidding. I actually may just watch the UK version then. I don't neccessarily need to see a random sex scene in Torchwood, but that's just me.

I'll be watching the US version as it airs first. I just hope it's not as bad as they are making it out to be becuase like you I don't need random hardcore sex in my Torchwood.

[SpaceDog]

I strongly doubt it'll be hardcore. I imagine it won't be random either. You'll see complaints earlier in the thread that it didn't seem particularly adult in the first episode in spite of the fact that it's on Starz. Given that the first 2 episodes have been pretty PG-13, I'd say they are only going to engage in strong language, sexual situations, nudity, etc if it benefits the story.

Of course I've nver particularly been sure of the worry about sex when we've already been exposed to a multiple-impalement and a blown up body that's still blinking and paying attention while the last strands connecting his head are snipped.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I strongly doubt it'll be hardcore. I imagine it won't be random either. You'll see complaints earlier in the thread that it didn't seem particularly adult in the first episode in spite of the fact that it's on Starz. Given that the first 2 episodes have been pretty PG-13, I'd say they are only going to engage in strong language, sexual situations, nudity, etc if it benefits the story.

Of course I've nver particularly been sure of the worry about sex when we've already been exposed to a multiple-impalement and a blown up body that's still blinking and paying attention while the last strands connecting his head are snipped.

Won't be random but the article said it's not beneficial to the story in anyway and John keeps saying it's a full on naked sex scene and if the BBC are censoring it must be worse then what we usually get from Torchwood. I am curious about that future violent scene they mentioned also being censored as I found the guy getting his head chopped off to be pretty gross and violent the way they did it like you mentioned with cutting the strands. Violence and sex never bothers me in shows but it will be interesting to see what John and the BBC consider full on naked sex to be. We've already had a scene like that with Jack and Ianto and Gwen walking in so I wonder if it's more then that or something like that.

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by detective392

Won't be random but the article said it's not beneficial to the story in anyway and John keeps saying it's a full on naked sex scene and if the BBC are censoring it must be worse then what we usually get from Torchwood. I am curious about that future violent scene they mentioned also being censored as I found the guy getting his head chopped off to be pretty gross and violent the way they did it like you mentioned with cutting the strands. Violence and sex never bothers me in shows but it will be interesting to see what John and the BBC consider full on naked sex to be. We've already had a scene like that with Jack and Ianto and Gwen walking in so I wonder if it's more then that or something like that.

Maybe RTD is still bitter that an American cable network made a largely crap show based on his UK series QAF, and he wanted to show how you could have sex scenes and still maintain a story worth telling ;>.

My view of Torchwood 1-3 is that there was a fair bit of "snogging" with the occasional butt-cheek. If I remember a simulated sex scene with Jack/Ianto, I think it was of the clothed & getting ready to do more variety, as opposed to the "in the thick of it" variety, as it were.

I'll judge for myself on whether the excised scenes were pertinent when I see them, but I really don't care for anything to be missing content. Much as I enjoy RTD material, to date I have never seen UK QAF as it has never had the original music in the US.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

Maybe RTD is still bitter that an American cable network made a largely crap show based on his UK series QAF, and he wanted to show how you could have sex scenes and still maintain a story worth telling ;>.

My view of Torchwood 1-3 is that there was a fair bit of "snogging" with the occasional butt-cheek. If I remember a simulated sex scene with Jack/Ianto, I think it was of the clothed & getting ready to do more variety, as opposed to the "in the thick of it" variety, as it were.

I'll judge for myself on whether the excised scenes were pertinent when I see them, but I really don't care for anything to be missing content. Much as I enjoy RTD material, to date I have never seen UK QAF as it has never had the original music in the US.

Yeah the Jack/Ianto scene looked to be going in a very different situation if Gwen hadn't walked in. Never did see any versions of QAF though but hate when music get's changed.

[phatrat1982]

looking back in the previous seasons, Torchwood has never been new viewer accessible. Season one you pretty much had to watch Doctor Who to get what was going on, Season two you had to not only watch Doctor Who again but you would be lost if you missed season 1. If you missed either season one or two or the Doctor Who stuff Season three would be confusing to new viewers too.


The difference is the first season was blatantly tied into Doctor Who so Who fans were expecting Torchwood when it came so that helped get it off the ground. Coming to the US is completely different it is a spin off *of* a spin off basically so there is bound to be some confusion going around.


My sister who watched all episodes of Torchwood who also hates Doctor Who had to watch the Doctor episodes and told me it really helped explain things for her. Since I was following all along it never occurred to me but I watch Doctor Who faithfully.

The wrist thing that was kind of an issue because they made a big deal about it but look back at season one again the whole time Jack had it but never explained what it was until Season Two when that other time agent showed up. So unless you watched Doctor Who and had already known about his past you did not know what it was nor did it have any bearing on the show other than creating mystery for the non-Who viewers.


And there is the problem I think, Torchwood had Doctor Who to help build it up for two whole seasons and well people watching the new season might not make the connection to previous Doctor Who stuff especially if they don't watch the parent show and even if they do the knew Doctor Who makes no mention of Captain Jack or the Institute at all. So a new viewer would not know what makes Captain Jack so special not just immortality buy why is this married woman so in love with him, you miss out on everything they have gone through.

You here everyone from Torchwood is dead yet Andy, Jack, and Rysh, and Gwen are all alive and a new viewer would not know why Gwen was in hiding it would make no sense because they explain Torchwood as a part of the royal government of Britain in the first episode so a new viewer would be confused why are the rebuilding the hub, that was mentioned in the first episode that it was being rebuilt, then you have the whole why is Torchwood in hiding if they are a part of the government because it is clearly the government that they are hiding from.


Then you have the stuff about the 456, anyone who watched Children of Earth knows there is no secret what 456 is so when that name came up well it was significant and that explains why the FBI or CIA or whoever it was could arrest Torchwood because you know first what 456 agreement means and you know why Torchwood is involved with 456.


NOT knowing all that you have a show based in the US where CIA agents can at will arrest members of the British government for no reason at all. Yeah that would appeal to some Americans seeing one of our agents arresting a Brit but without knowing why he did have that authority it just makes it look like bad ass American cowboys doing what Americans do.

Also there is all the times Gwen keeps saying welcome to Torchwood and we are Torchwood well all you have is a mention by Jack that Torchwood monitors strange and unusual and also aliens. Well again in context everyone on earth knew about the 456 so they would not be too shocked to learn about an agency that dealt with Aliens. Also that little blurb left out any mention of the rift which in previous seasons was a huge part of what Torchwood was about monitoring the rift. So at least they didn't bring that up cuz that would have confused new viewers.


So my point is yeah there are things that a new viewer could potentially be confused on, but to be fair that is how Torchwood has been handled all along.


Other than that the episode well it seamed like they didn't do enough they spent too much time on the plane doing nothing and it felt like they cut the episode ten minutes short but it wasn't it just had ten minutes of fluff and that is one reason why I like the old format because you have a larger story arc but you get self contained stories also. I don't like it when nothing pertinent happens for half the episode and they either have to rush something out or leave you hanging with a filler episode that could not stand on it's own. That was what I think killed Heroes. Heroes managed to limp along for four seasons based on the success of the first alone, Torchwood well it doesn't have the audience Heroes had and look what happened to that.

[detective392]

Originally Posted by phatrat1982

looking back in the previous seasons, Torchwood has never been new viewer accessible. Season one you pretty much had to watch Doctor Who to get what was going on, Season two you had to not only watch Doctor Who again but you would be lost if you missed season 1. If you missed either season one or two or the Doctor Who stuff Season three would be confusing to new viewers too.


The difference is the first season was blatantly tied into Doctor Who so Who fans were expecting Torchwood when it came so that helped get it off the ground. Coming to the US is completely different it is a spin off *of* a spin off basically so there is bound to be some confusion going around.


My sister who watched all episodes of Torchwood who also hates Doctor Who had to watch the Doctor episodes and told me it really helped explain things for her. Since I was following all along it never occurred to me but I watch Doctor Who faithfully.

The wrist thing that was kind of an issue because they made a big deal about it but look back at season one again the whole time Jack had it but never explained what it was until Season Two when that other time agent showed up. So unless you watched Doctor Who and had already known about his past you did not know what it was nor did it have any bearing on the show other than creating mystery for the non-Who viewers.


And there is the problem I think, Torchwood had Doctor Who to help build it up for two whole seasons and well people watching the new season might not make the connection to previous Doctor Who stuff especially if they don't watch the parent show and even if they do the knew Doctor Who makes no mention of Captain Jack or the Institute at all. So a new viewer would not know what makes Captain Jack so special not just immortality buy why is this married woman so in love with him, you miss out on everything they have gone through.

You here everyone from Torchwood is dead yet Andy, Jack, and Rysh, and Gwen are all alive and a new viewer would not know why Gwen was in hiding it would make no sense because they explain Torchwood as a part of the royal government of Britain in the first episode so a new viewer would be confused why are the rebuilding the hub, that was mentioned in the first episode that it was being rebuilt, then you have the whole why is Torchwood in hiding if they are a part of the government because it is clearly the government that they are hiding from.


Then you have the stuff about the 456, anyone who watched Children of Earth knows there is no secret what 456 is so when that name came up well it was significant and that explains why the FBI or CIA or whoever it was could arrest Torchwood because you know first what 456 agreement means and you know why Torchwood is involved with 456.


NOT knowing all that you have a show based in the US where CIA agents can at will arrest members of the British government for no reason at all. Yeah that would appeal to some Americans seeing one of our agents arresting a Brit but without knowing why he did have that authority it just makes it look like bad ass American cowboys doing what Americans do.

Also there is all the times Gwen keeps saying welcome to Torchwood and we are Torchwood well all you have is a mention by Jack that Torchwood monitors strange and unusual and also aliens. Well again in context everyone on earth knew about the 456 so they would not be too shocked to learn about an agency that dealt with Aliens. Also that little blurb left out any mention of the rift which in previous seasons was a huge part of what Torchwood was about monitoring the rift. So at least they didn't bring that up cuz that would have confused new viewers.


So my point is yeah there are things that a new viewer could potentially be confused on, but to be fair that is how Torchwood has been handled all along.


Other than that the episode well it seamed like they didn't do enough they spent too much time on the plane doing nothing and it felt like they cut the episode ten minutes short but it wasn't it just had ten minutes of fluff and that is one reason why I like the old format because you have a larger story arc but you get self contained stories also. I don't like it when nothing pertinent happens for half the episode and they either have to rush something out or leave you hanging with a filler episode that could not stand on it's own. That was what I think killed Heroes. Heroes managed to limp along for four seasons based on the success of the first alone, Torchwood well it doesn't have the audience Heroes had and look what happened to that.

Having never seen Doctor Who before I started Torchwood I wasn't confused at all with starting Torchwood before DW. By the time I got to the second season of TW I had started DW so I knew Jack's

[Show spoiler]absence was due to him being with the Doctor.

But all throughout the first season I wasn't at all confused by not having seen any DW.

I do agree that in order to really get all aspects of Torchwood watching some DW is essential to that.