Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[rdodolak]

How are the digital copy caps being captured because there are a lot of variables which can affect the image. More than likely you can't compare these screenshots to the Blu-ray caps on this site.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

How are the digital copy caps being captured because there are a lot of variables which can affect the image. More than likely you can't compare these screenshots to the Blu-ray caps on this site.

I used Paint Shop Pro to capture the UV frames. I know the caps aren't perfect, but the simply enormous difference in black levels is something that is visible on any device. The BD looks like garbage in the caps, on my TV, etc. The difference is too extreme to be written off as an issue with capture quality. I seriously spent ten minutes trying to adjust the brightness levels on my TV as I was watching the BD, before realizing it was the disc that was flawed, it looks that awful.

Just look at Kim Jong Un's costume in the cap where he's sitting in the chair, in front of the painting of his father. In the BD cap, his costume is just a big, amorphous black blob. And for that matter, look at how he blends into the shadows that engulf the painting of his father too. No way on earth that's how this film was meant to look.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Luckily, the question of whether the black levels on this disc are wrong or not isn't something that will be decided on by a majority vote of internet commenters, but by Sony's home video department, or by the directors, who I will gladly track down and contact if we don't start to get results by the end of next week.

well, if they don't issue replacements, that doesn't mean that the discs are right either and they don't have any problem.

[jscoggins]

By the way, my screenshot of the tiger was captured in HDX.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I used Paint Shop Pro to capture the UV frames. I know the caps aren't perfect, but the simply enormous difference in black levels is something that is visible on any device. The BD looks like garbage in the caps, on my TV, etc. The difference is too extreme to be written off as an issue with capture quality. I seriously spent ten minutes trying to adjust the brightness levels on my TV as I was watching the BD, before realizing it was the disc that was flawed, it looks that awful.

Just look at Kim Jong Un's costume in the cap where he's sitting in the chair, in front of the painting of his father. In the BD cap, his costume is just a big, amorphous black blob. And for that matter, look at how he blends into the shadows that engulf the painting of his father too. No way on earth that's how this film was meant to look.

I'm not saying the two sources aren't different but there are a lot of variables in the chain that can affect the overall outcome which will invalidate the overall comparison. Video card, monitor, and software settings are some of the variables which can affect the overall capture. These would need to be captured directly from the source stream without any post manipulation. Unless both were captured via the same method then it's not a valid comparison.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

I'm not saying the two sources aren't different but there are a lot of variables in the chain that can affect the overall outcome which will invalidate the overall comparison. Video card, monitor, and software settings are some of the variables which can affect the overall capture. These would need to be captured directly from the source stream without any post manipulation. Unless both were captured via the same method then it's not a valid comparison.

As I said, I never claimed the caps were absolutely perfect. However they give a reasonable glimpse at how vast the difference is between the UV and BD versions. The BD is unwatchably dark, which I noticed simply by watching it on my TV and struggling to see what was going on. The caps are only meant to illustrate that basic point. I also saw the film twice in theaters, less than two months ago, and I can confirm that it looked like the UV caps, not like the BD caps.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

I'm not saying the two sources aren't different but there are a lot of variables in the chain that can affect the overall outcome which will invalidate the overall comparison. Video card, monitor, and software settings are some of the variables which can affect the overall capture. These would need to be captured directly from the source stream without any post manipulation. Unless both were captured via the same method then it's not a valid comparison.

The BD screenshots bury things in shadows and murkiness. Using software to brighten the image does not reveal hidden details, which means that someone made the image too dark and threw away the fine detail. Whether this was done by Sony or the reviewer may be up in the air, but if the reviewer also did the screencaps for Whiplash, then Whiplash should also appear to be "too dark".

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

How are the digital copy caps being captured because there are a lot of variables which can affect the image. More than likely you can't compare these screenshots to the Blu-ray caps on this site.

Also, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, there's a very simple way to do an A-B comparison that can't be disqualified by dismissing caps.

Put the BD in, watch the special features, and switch back and forth between the clips of the film used in them and those same shots in the feature film.

The clips in the featurettes have not been darkened the way the feature has, they look normal and match the UV, full of detail in the darker areas. The difference between them and the main feature is concrete proof that something is wrong here.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Put the BD in, watch the special features, and switch back and forth between the clips of the film used in them and those same shots in the feature film.

[bruceames]

Is the black crush more prevalent on LCDs?

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Also, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, there's a very simple way to do an A-B comparison that can't be disqualified by dismissing caps.

Put the BD in, watch the special features, and switch back and forth between the clips of the film used in them and those same shots in the feature film.

The clips in the featurettes have not been darkened the way the feature has, they look normal and match the UV, full of detail in the darker areas. The difference between them and the main feature is concrete proof that something is wrong here.

This would tell us the two are different from one another but it doesn't tell us which is correct; both could be incorrect for all we know.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

[Show spoiler]

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

This would tell us the two are different from one another but it doesn't tell us which is correct; both could be incorrect for all we know.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

[Show spoiler]

It's all good, say hi to Emma for me.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

It's all good, say hi to Emma for me.

That reminds me -- no black crush on her only Sony BD, This Is the End.

[mar3o]

It's things like this that are strongly making me reconsider continuing to build my blu-ray collection. There is no excuse for this. Films (and tv shows too) look ugly enough as it is these days - teal, yellow, or green being the dominant color, and so many films being so dark, as if it's bad to have color and brightness in film anymore. Realistic flesh tones are a thing of the past.

But to see films look better on a low-bitrate streaming service than they do on a premium disc format like blu-ray is outrageous. In their quest for ever-darker blacks, they're crushing the image and destroying the detail.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

$14 at Amazon, I think, I can't actually remember, lol, it's the principle of the thing.

And now Vudu is telling me I can't download or watch either MBFW or THE INTERVIW in HD due to "copyright restrictions"?

And the SD version I was able to download, which is 2GB, is a proprietary file that can only be opened in Vudu, and which won't even display fullscreen.

I hate streaming services, lol.

That's why I don't stream. I hate DRM and streaming. Looks like we're being pushed there like it or not.

[Bad Sandwich]

My god, that is ****ing infuriating.