Max Fleischer's Superman (1941-1942) Warner

[Retro00064]

Originally Posted by Nailwraps

GREAT NEWS from Jerry Beck on Stu's Show tonight; the DVD errors WILL BE CORRECTED for the Blu-ray!!!

Uh, that's not exactly what was reported on the show. Jerry discussed how Superman was one of the things that George Feltenstein left notes on, or had planned/"in the pipeline", before his temporary firing from W.B. a while back, and that this project was worked on by W.B. (and taken on by W.H.V.) without George's involvement.

George did later get to see *one* of the restored cartoons, and reported that it was "jaw-dropping" and without the errors. Based on that *one* cartoon, George and Jerry have fingers crossed that the rest will be the same; but they do not yet know for sure and won't until they get to see the end results (Jerry mentioned that George did request a "check disc").

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

There may be no documented evidence, but I’ll still have to suspect that they saw this cartoon. Too great a coincidence.

Well, the part about a nuclear blast loosing a giant dinosaur from ice was acknowledged to come directly from The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, but are you saying there's some other coincidence? The fact that both the Superman dinosaur and Godzilla look kind of like a T. rex with longer arms and spikes on its back seems like it could easily be a coincidence, T. rex is an obvious choice if you want to have a killer dino on a rampage, short arms look a bit silly, and adding spikes to dinosaurs' backs was done all the time by artists who weren't too concerned with accuracy, look at some of the stills from the 1940 cartoon Prehistoric Porky for instance (there were also smaller triangular spikes on the T. rex painted by Rudolph Zallinger I linked to earlier which was acknowledged to be an influence on Godzilla).

[WaverBoy]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

Well, the part about a nuclear blast loosing a giant dinosaur from ice was acknowledged to come directly from The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, but are you saying there's some other coincidence? The fact that both the Superman dinosaur and Godzilla look kind of like a T. rex with longer arms and spikes on its back seems like it could easily be a coincidence, T. rex is an obvious choice if you want to have a killer dino on a rampage, short arms look a bit silly, and adding spikes to dinosaurs' backs was done all the Ty time by artists who weren't too concerned with accuracy, look at some of the stills from the 1940 cartoon Prehistoric Porky for instance (there were also smaller triangular spikes on the T. rex painted by Rudolph Zallinger I linked to earlier which was acknowledged to be an influence on Godzilla).

Besides the striking physical similarity of the monsters, there’s the fact that they’re both causing destruction in a modern urban area. The whole feel is remarkably similar. And, the fact that some inspiration is documented to have come from the Beast (which I’m certainly not denying) doesn’t necessarily rule out other inspirations. You’ll not alter my suspicions, unprovable though they may be.

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

Besides the striking physical similarity of the monsters, there’s the fact that they’re both causing destruction in a modern urban area.

There was already a very well-known example of that with the brontosaurus in The Lost World from 1925 though. But it could also be that this was an indirect influence where the writers of The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms took some inspiration from the Superman cartoon, and that plot element could have been mentioned in the trade magazine that Tomoyuki Tanaka was reading when he got the idea for Godzilla.

Are you thinking of any physical similarities besides the ones I mentioned? Apart from both looking like T. rexes with longer arms and spikes on their back, I guess you could also point to them both being kind of pot-bellied (though the Zallinger painting I linked to had this feature too) with thick stubby legs. In the case of Godzilla I think this could have had to do with a costume that would work for a human actor without having a too human-shaped body, and it could also to do with conveying huge size and weight (heavier animals like elephants have proportionally thicker legs in general) and having good feet for dramatically stomping around on models of buildings, cars etc. In the case of the Fleischer dinosaur that shape could also have had something to do with conveying hugeness/stompiness, but I think it could also be seen as having to do with the cartooning style of the time, for instance the dragon in Disney's 1940 cartoon The Reluctant Dragon has short thick legs and an even more exaggerated pot belly (along with back spikes similar to the one in the Fleischer cartoon), and the two legged meat eaters in "Prehistoric Porky" from 1940 (some stills here) likewise had pot bellies and fairly short legs (and some had similar spikes on their back too). Even the Brontosaurus in "Daffy Duck and the Dinosaur" from 1939 had a similar looking lower body shape in the shot here of it standing up on its back legs.

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

You’ll not alter my suspicions, unprovable though they may be.

Sure, not really trying to change your mind and if you don't feel like going into more detail about your thinking that's fine, as a fan of dino-media history I just thought it was an interesting subject to discuss. Also I wouldn't say it's particularly unlikely that the Godzilla designers had seen the cartoon and it had some degree of influence that they didn't mention in interviews, just saying I don't see a strong case for it in terms of similarities that can't easily be explained in other ways.

[WaverBoy]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

There was already a very well-known example of that with the brontosaurus in The Lost World from 1925 though. But it could also be that this was an indirect influence where the writers of The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms took some inspiration from the Superman cartoon, and that plot element could have been mentioned in the trade magazine that Tomoyuki Tanaka was reading when he got the idea for Godzilla.

Are you thinking of any physical similarities besides the ones I mentioned? Apart from both looking like T. rexes with longer arms and spikes on their back, I guess you could also point to them both being kind of pot-bellied (though the Zallinger painting I linked to had this feature too) with thick stubby legs. In the case of Godzilla I think this could have had to do with a costume that would work for a human actor without having a too human-shaped body, and it could also to do with conveying huge size and weight (heavier animals like elephants have proportionally thicker legs in general) and having good feet for dramatically stomping around on models of buildings, cars etc. In the case of the Fleischer dinosaur that shape could also have had something to do with conveying hugeness/stompiness, but I think it could also be seen as having to do with the cartooning style of the time, for instance the dragon in Disney's 1940 cartoon The Reluctant Dragon has short thick legs and an even more exaggerated pot belly (along with back spikes similar to the one in the Fleischer cartoon), and the two legged meat eaters in "Prehistoric Porky" from 1940 (some stills here) likewise had pot bellies and fairly short legs (and some had similar spikes on their back too). Even the Brontosaurus in "Daffy Duck and the Dinosaur" from 1939 had a similar looking lower body shape in the shot here of it standing up on its back legs.



Sure, not really trying to change your mind and if you don't feel like going into more detail about your thinking that's fine, as a fan of dino-media history I just thought it was an interesting subject to discuss. Also I wouldn't say it's particularly unlikely that the Godzilla designers had seen the cartoon and it had some degree of influence that they didn't mention in interviews, just saying I don't see a strong case for it in terms of similarities that can't easily be explained in other ways.

It’s the combo of all the factors: potbellied upright-walking Tyrannosaurus-ish monster with spiky spinal plates destroying a city. None of the other films mentioned have all three of those attributes; not the Lost World, not The Reluctant Dragon, not The Beast.

[recS-12]

Got this pre-ordered w/Best Buy at $27.99 and added a $5 rz cert to bring it to $22.99 for extra value! LoL, really happy this is being released.

[ClassicCraig]

Originally Posted by Thad Komorowski

I'm involved with the Fleischer project run by Jane Fleischer. That Superman they ran sure wasn't from her, although there have at least been three that were. (Somewhere in Dreamland, Christmas Comes But Once a Year, and the Jam Handy Rudolph.) MeTV has made on-air errors before, though.

FWIW, they re-ran the Fleischer tribute today and it includes "Mechanical Monsters" with the intro from the first Superman. The host said the print came from Max's granddaughter Jane Reid.

[Alhlan Ain Ajeeba]

I wonder how long they were working on this restoration......

[hanshotfirst1138]

I’m waiting to hear if there are any problems before I order this, but I’m hoping for the best.

[DenOfEarth]

Use to watch these on TV and Disney Channel in the 80s as a kid and loved them since and without these shorts, you wouldn't have Batman TAS you know.

Can't wait to see Warner remaster these amazing shorts.

[captainsolo]

Until we get to see and check every short we won't know if all the errors were fixed. This same thing happened in 2009 for the standalone DVD release. There they corrected a few but not all of the errors.

[Egbert Souse]

Not saying it's impossible, but new scans and transfers of the picture and audio should avoid issues that were created at the mastering stage. Unless the negatives were altered.

[Thad Komorowski]

It's all so confusing. They can't send a check disc to knowledgable people?

[Galactus123]

Australian release on May 31:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Max-F...lu-ray/336467/

I wonder if this gets released in Europe too? They would have probably announced it by now.

[Alhlan Ain Ajeeba]

Originally Posted by Galactus123

Australian release on May 31:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Max-F...lu-ray/336467/

I wonder if this gets released in Europe too? They would have probably announced it by now.

Im going to be EXTREMELY ANGRY since im importing the US blu ray on May 16 from amazon,and it shortly gets announced for euro countries soon after May 16. So if they have any intention of releasing it in euro countries,they better announce it soon.

[DawnShadow]

Bruh just cancel the order wtf

[Mushi Minion]

Wouldn’t want him getting EXTREMELY ANGRY on us…

[MifuneFan]

I say, let him keep his order, I wanna see how this plays out.

[Alhlan Ain Ajeeba]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I say, let him keep his order, I wanna see how this plays out.

Lol,Im going to do exactly that. But it would be very frustrating if they announced this days after the US release. I dont think it will,Wb releases world wide are usually close together. With only a few weeks diffrence at best.

[Jeyl]

I know, I know. You guys hate Bill Hunt with a passion, but he's seen the disc and had this to say.

I am VERY disappointed to report that
@WBHomeEnt
has completely screwed the pooch on their #Bluray release of MAX FLEISCHER’S SUPERMAN.

First, the remastering has removed way too much grain and fine image detail. And you can tell, because the new SPEEDING TOWARD TOMORROW featurette reveals the raw footage prior to remastering and there’s plenty of fine detail, organic grain, crisp line work visible there. But it’s all been cleaned away in the actual shorts. And sadly, that’s not the only problem.

The shorts have also been overcompressed. This disc is a BD-50, so there should be PLENTY of room to include the shorts at a proper data rate of 25-30 mbps to ensure the highest quality, and instead they’ve been compressed to a paltry 15-16 mbps!

My unfortunate recommendation is for people to cancel their pre-orders immediately demand that this release be redone with proper remastering and compression. Because as it is, the image quality here is appalling.