Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4K UHD (Criterion Collection)

[KubrickKurasawa]

I want Cheech and Chong in 4K not this pass. Or Nerds 2 in Paradise. Oger: What if c a t really spelled d o g?

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

I want Cheech and Chong in 4K

I'm not sorry I took the moneyyyyyy

[brian9229]

So reading the booklet notes, this was timed per a Universal 35mm print, hmm. Interesting. Assuming that's true, it's weird. How could an original print have so much teal?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by brian9229

So reading the booklet notes, this was timed per a Universal 35mm print, hmm. Interesting. Assuming that's true, it's weird. How could an original print have so much teal?

The "teal" so far seems to just be in one scene. This film isn't a natural-looking film to begin with and there was no reason that there couldn't be teal or any other color in a print. Home video masters for many films over the years tended to neutralize such hues and improperly white-balance the image so what people describe as "natural" or "original" are usually not. Many films have been improperly timed for video and then those improperly timed masters are then used as a reference for future releases. I wish it were standard procedure to reference an answer print when doing a new master but it's sadly not and I find for myself that it's hard to go back to Blu-rays and even UHDs after seeing 35mm prints of the same films.

[Schism213]

Originally Posted by Infallible Presence

I ordered about a week ago the Arrow release (along with "Carrie") from DiabolikDVD. Still hasn't shipped or they never sent the email. But, will hold on to my Criterion Blu-ray for the extras. That's the proper way to upgrade to 4K. The only real bummer with the Arrow UHD is the lack of the bonus BD that their limited edition blu-ray had ("For No Good Reason"), but that can be purchased separately elsewhere.

The Diablokial Spring sale started last Monday and they said to allow at least a week to process orders during the sale.

[asacmurr]

These are all from a friend who gave me permission to share these. Obviously the TV photos aren't 100% representative of the disc, but it should be a decent way to note how different the discs are. The Rhino logo is restored at the end, and according to him this is a different transfer entirely, it's a bit piss washed, the grade is way darker than the Arrow's (the second set of photos in these comparisons), for the later hotel scenes the Criterion is teal while the Arrow is a deep blue (likely same with the other blue scenes), and the black and white footage is tinted sepia at the start (lmao).

Packaging photos
https://imgur.com/a/2QiNBXP

Comparison photos
https://imgur.com/a/arGqbLT

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by asacmurr

These are all from a friend who gave me permission to share these. Obviously the TV photos aren't 100% representative of the disc, but it should be a decent way to note how different the discs are. The Rhino logo is restored at the end, and according to him this is a different transfer entirely, it's a bit piss washed, the grade is way darker than the Arrow's (the second set of photos in these comparisons), for the later hotel scenes the Criterion is teal while the Arrow is a deep blue (likely same with the other blue scenes), and the black and white footage is tinted sepia at the start (lmao).

Packaging photos
https://imgur.com/a/2QiNBXP

Comparison photos
https://imgur.com/a/arGqbLT

We were somewhere around Barstow when the teal began to take hold

[dwk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

We were somewhere around Barstow when the teal began to take hold

Funnily enough, I live in an area close to this and have made the drive to Vegas a number of times in the past (both of my brothers lived there at various points in the early and late '90s and early '00s) and the colors in the shot in the car in the Criterion read more true to life to me than the Arrow, which is way too red, but

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

This film isn't a natural-looking film to begin with...

So, yeah that is all I have to add.

[PowellPressburger]

Originally Posted by asacmurr

These are all from a friend who gave me permission to share these. Obviously the TV photos aren't 100% representative of the disc, but it should be a decent way to note how different the discs are. The Rhino logo is restored at the end, and according to him this is a different transfer entirely, it's a bit piss washed, the grade is way darker than the Arrow's (the second set of photos in these comparisons), for the later hotel scenes the Criterion is teal while the Arrow is a deep blue (likely same with the other blue scenes), and the black and white footage is tinted sepia at the start (lmao).

Packaging photos
https://imgur.com/a/2QiNBXP

Comparison photos
https://imgur.com/a/arGqbLT

I prefer the Arrow for sure…

That screen grab of the car interior with the dashboard having that tint to it … I don’t like that at all.

I think Criterion had Lee Kline look at a 35 mm print and he tealed it.

Would be odd that it finally shows up now after so many editions for a film from the late 1990’s

[asacmurr]

Originally Posted by Refuse Revisionism

Yes it would be odd just like if Twister was now green.. This is revisionist this movie was never teal. I saw this and Twister at the cinema and they never looked like this modern teal and orange crap.

I'd wait for actual disc pics before judging Twister honestly. It did seem strange that there was a tint in that trailer or whatever though - I saw folks saying tornados turn the sky green so I just chalked it up to that lmao - something left off other releases

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Refuse Revisionism

The tornados were never green in Twister ever.

Yep, they were bright orange.

[asacmurr]

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

Yep, they were bright orange.

Bright teal I think you mean

[MifuneFan]

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

[PNguyen]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

really not loving this era of revisionism where directors just change their work for no reason, it was already bad enough with James Cameron

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PNguyen

really not loving this era of revisionism where directors just change their work for no reason, it was already bad enough with James Cameron

Eh, it's not a new phenom. Many directors can't resist having a tinker.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Hopefully caps-a-holic adds the Criterion release too, so we can get some proper comparisons. It does seem likely that some revisionism is happening though, especially with the change from B&W to sepia. I suppose in some way, it does make owning both more appealing as you can now create an ultimate package with two distinct presentations, and all of the unique extras between the two releases. Or conversely, it may make it easier for some to go with one or the other depending on their preferences.

It's all revisionism. Just depends on what revisionism you prefer.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Interesting that Criterion mention using a 35mm print provided by Universal as a color reference. Could very well be the case that it is more faithful to the original look of the film than all previous editions, but who knows? I just find it interesting that Criterion decided to go this route when there was already an existing master out there.

[Telemachus]

I've seen people here say prints are not an accurate representation of grades because they change over time lmao

So now they are the standard? This just seems strange all around, I wonder if Gilliam wanted to do this or this was all Criterion, I'm having a hard time trusting this over what Arrow already did.

Though Lost Highway looks so different from all previous versions on Criterion's UHD so maybe they know something that the director knows, I dunno. I do know Criterion's piss poor QC lately on discs and the fact they still do the good enough disc authoring/compression makes me less likely to spend money on them even if they put out a superior product every once in awhile.

Maybe Dr. West can formulate which is the best version

(don't @me Geoffry)

[asacmurr]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

I've seen people here say prints are not an accurate representation of grades because they change over time lmao

So now they are the standard? This just seems strange all around, I wonder if Gilliam wanted to do this or this was all Criterion, I'm having a hard time trusting this over what Arrow already did.

Though Lost Highway looks so different from all previous versions on Criterion's UHD so maybe they know something that the director knows, I dunno. I do know Criterion's piss poor QC lately on discs and the fact they still do the good enough disc authoring/compression makes me less likely to spend money on them even if they put out a superior product every once in awhile.

Maybe Dr. West can formulate which is the best version

(don't @me Geoffry)

Aren't there telltale signs of a print degrading, though? Pushing towards magenta etc? Not sure.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

A print isn't an ideal reference for how the film was supposed to look, in most cases the final answer print would be. In cases where it's not available/doesn't exist anymore then usually multiple prints are compared as opposed to just one. Keep in mind that this is in cases where there is a considerable effort made to remain faithful to the original look, for so many of those old telecines no references were made and we were at the whims of whoever was in the suite at the time.

As much as a single print may not tell the whole story, I'd much rather they reference that than nothing at all.