Pioneer 9G Owners Thread - Present & Future

[ShockWave]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

I do believe that Pioneer designed their players to work with Pio plasmas for best PQ. I'm willing to give up 10 to 30 seconds for that synergy effect. If you have a Pio bd player with Pio reciever and Pio Kuro they work great, that's what they're designed for.

As opposed to what? I really don't fall into this camp. I treat each piece as it's own and try to buy the one that has the opitions and quality I need for my set up. I have never had degrading effects by using different name brands as a whole. Just because I choose a Pioneer plasma hardly means their players and receivers are a better choice cause they share the same name.

[TheFactor]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

The Pio 320 and 23FD were identical in speed, they are slower compared to the Oppo I seen at my neighbor's house. The Oppo is smoother when you navigate through the menu. When loading bd's the Pio is any where from 10 seconds to 30 seconds slower depending on the disc content. I do believe that Pioneer designed their players to work with Pio plasmas for best PQ. I'm willing to give up 10 to 30 seconds for that synergy effect. If you have a Pio bd player with Pio reciever and Pio Kuro they work great, that's what they're designed for. I wish I would have kept my Pio 320 for the cost/performance ratio factor. It's identical to the PQ of the $2300 Pio-09fd. I would just wait for the 2010 Pio bd players to come out. They'll be faster and HDMI 1.4 3D compliant.

I've never owned a Sony bd player so I can't give you an accurate description on their products.

Im not really interested in 3d at this point maybe in a few years when its been out a while but im totaly happy with standard 2d BD at this point but speed improvements would be nice although my Sony Bdp-550 isnt the fastest player thats for sure so im used to slower load times and actually its not to bad . The 149 price shipped for the Pio BDP-320 is really hard to resist seems to be a lot of bang for the buck

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Patience patience patience, wait for the 2010 Pio players to come out, we really want to read the reviews and we want people on here to test them and put them through their pace. We should have an official tester on here who tests them. Who wants that job? If I were you guys I would sell your older bd players for the new ones, that's what I'm going to do!

I've sold my stuff on:

http://www.videogon.com/

http://www.audiogon.com/

Those are great sites I love going there just to look around and window shop

Originally Posted by ShockWave

As opposed to what? I really don't fall into this camp. I treat each piece as it's own and try to buy the one that has the options and quality I need for my set up. I have never had degrading effects by using different name brands as a whole. Just because I choose a Pioneer plasma hardly means their players and receivers are a better choice cause they share the same name.

I agree but sometimes matching components makes you feel good kind of like ice cream

[snsguy]

I have a question. I've noticed especially watch Saing Privat Ryan on my 500m that there is a skipping or doubling effect when there is panning or very fast movement. I also noticed the smae thing with Minority Report. When I really started to think about it I've seen it a lot since I got the tv. After reading some of the posts on this thread I tried turning off the 24 fps on my Panny 55 and only using the advance setting on the Kuro. It's a lot smoother. So my question is is the Kuro playing the blu correctly now that the panny's 24 fps option is turned off, letting only the Kuro do it rather then both or is something else going on that I'm unaware of? I noticed people were saying that they had direct through on their pioneer and oppo blu players for de-interlacing but I didn't know if those were the same as the Panny's 24 fps or if they really have nothing to do with one another. Thanks!

SNSGUY

[ShockWave]

Originally Posted by snsguy

I have a question. I've noticed especially watch Saing Privat Ryan on my 500m that there is a skipping or doubling effect when there is panning or very fast movement. After reading some of the posts on this thread I tried turning off the 24 fps on my Panny 55 and only using the advance setting on the Kuro. It's a lot smoother. So my question is is the Kuro playing the blu correctly now that the panny's 24 fps option is turned off, letting only the Kuro do it rather then both or is something else going on that I'm unaware of? I noticed people were saying that they had direct through on their pioneer and oppo blu players for de-interlacing but I didn't know if those were the same as the Panny's 24 fps or if they really have nothing to do with one another. Thanks!

SNSGUY

This used to annoy me as well. What it really is, it's the sorce of how it was filmed. The camera is maybe say capturing at 24fps depends how it was filmed just an example. What is happening is the camera is panning faster then the camera can capture. So say it requires 60 fps to capture the panning for tue scene but only using a 24fps camera. A lot of times during film they have a governer on the camera that won't let it pan faster then it can capture. Try source direct like you have let one source do the work. Then try not to look for it because you will make yourself find it and annoy yourself lol!

[Alkaline]

Originally Posted by snsguy

I have a question. I've noticed especially watch Saing Privat Ryan on my 500m that there is a skipping or doubling effect when there is panning or very fast movement. I also noticed the smae thing with Minority Report. When I really started to think about it I've seen it a lot since I got the tv. After reading some of the posts on this thread I tried turning off the 24 fps on my Panny 55 and only using the advance setting on the Kuro. It's a lot smoother. So my question is is the Kuro playing the blu correctly now that the panny's 24 fps option is turned off, letting only the Kuro do it rather then both or is something else going on that I'm unaware of? I noticed people were saying that they had direct through on their pioneer and oppo blu players for de-interlacing but I didn't know if those were the same as the Panny's 24 fps or if they really have nothing to do with one another. Thanks!

SNSGUY

Feature films on this side of the atlantic are generally filmed at 24fps (some in Europe are actually filmed 25fps, as I recently learned). Many people (myself icluded) tend to love the 72hz (advanced) mode on the Pioneer plasmas because it accurately replicates the theatrical "look" of film when playing a 24fps source like most blu-rays (each 1/24 second frame is repeated 3 times to get 72hz per second). But it is very much a preference thing. As you and shockwave said, 24fps does tend to look quite choppy during camera pans in particular, and some people are really bothered by this. You may want to consider a combination of 1080i/p 60 output on your player, and the smooth setting on your plasma, for example. This will likely lead to the "video-y" look similar to what can be done on many 120hz lcds, which some people (myself included) find to be highly artificial looking, but others prefer.

[snsguy]

Originally Posted by ShockWave

This used to annoy me as well. What it really is, it's the sorce of how it was filmed. The camera is maybe say capturing at 24fps depends how it was filmed just an example. What is happening is the camera is panning faster then the camera can capture. So say it requires 60 fps to capture the panning for tue scene but only using a 24fps camera. A lot of times during film they have a governer on the camera that won't let it pan faster then it can capture. Try source direct like you have let one source do the work. Then try not to look for it because you will make yourself find it and annoy yourself lol!

Well so far I like it with the 24 frames off on the blu-ray player. That, to me, looks more true to the film then having both on. I will try not to look for it. I think part of it is I have a bad stigmatism and it screw with my eyes.

Originally Posted by Alkaline

Feature films on this side of the atlantic are generally filmed at 24fps (some in Europe are actually filmed 25fps, as I recently learned). Many people (myself icluded) tend to love the 72hz (advanced) mode on the Pioneer plasmas because it accurately replicates the theatrical "look" of film when playing a 24fps source like most blu-rays (each 1/24 second frame is repeated 3 times to get 72hz per second). But it is very much a preference thing. As you and shockwave said, 24fps does tend to look quite choppy during camera pans in particular, and some people are really bothered by this. You may want to consider a combination of 1080i/p 60 output on your player, and the smooth setting on your plasma, for example. This will likely lead to the "video-y" look similar to what can be done on many 120hz lcds, which some people (myself included) find to be highly artificial looking, but others prefer.

Blah!!!! That's why I got a plasma was to get away from the fake look. Every time I go into a store with one on it looks like it's sped up, It may be smooth but it looks like crap!

Thanks guys!

SNSGUY

[Alkaline]

Originally Posted by snsguy

Blah!!!! That's why I got a plasma was to get away from the fake look. Every time I go into a store with one on it looks like it's sped up, It may be smooth but it looks like crap!

Thanks guys!

SNSGUY

Oh, I agree completely. I was only throwing it out there since it's pretty much the antithesis of the 'choppy' look 24fps occasionally displays. Hopefully you'll be able to find a setting that works for you without resorting to such drastic measures

[snsguy]

Originally Posted by Alkaline

Oh, I agree completely. I was only throwing it out there since it's pretty much the antithesis of the 'choppy' look 24fps occasionally displays. Hopefully you'll be able to find a setting that works for you without resorting to such drastic measures

Thanks! I'm going to try a few things out and see what works best. So far it seems best to leave 24 fps off on the blu-ray player and leave advanced on the Kuro. I'll have to check it on dvd's too to make sure that is what looks best for that also. No drastic measure for me!

SNSGUY

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by snsguy

Thanks! I'm going to try a few things out and see what works best. So far it seems best to leave 24 fps off on the blu-ray player and leave advanced on the Kuro. I'll have to check it on dvd's too to make sure that is what looks best for that also. No drastic measure for me!

SNSGUY

Yes, just set the bd player to 'Source Direct' and turn off 1080p/24 and set the Kuro to Advance mode, I think you'll see a bit of a difference and it will look more neutral and less processed.

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by snsguy

I have a question. I've noticed especially watch Saing Privat Ryan on my 500m that there is a skipping or doubling effect when there is panning or very fast movement. I also noticed the smae thing with Minority Report. When I really started to think about it I've seen it a lot since I got the tv. After reading some of the posts on this thread I tried turning off the 24 fps on my Panny 55 and only using the advance setting on the Kuro. It's a lot smoother. So my question is is the Kuro playing the blu correctly now that the panny's 24 fps option is turned off, letting only the Kuro do it rather then both or is something else going on that I'm unaware of? I noticed people were saying that they had direct through on their pioneer and oppo blu players for de-interlacing but I didn't know if those were the same as the Panny's 24 fps or if they really have nothing to do with one another. Thanks!

SNSGUY

I'm not familiar with the Pio 500m series. I am familiar with the Pio 111FD, 151FD, 141FD models. I have the Pio 151FD. Those Pio FD models all detect a 1080p/24 source and upconverts it to 1080p/72 no matter what, even if you don't have Advance Mode turned on in the Film Mode menu, it will automatically turn Advance on by itself if it gets a 1080p/24 source. So it's very convenient and user friendly, so all you need to do is set the bd player to 'Source Direct' and the Pio display handles it and converts it to 1080p/72. I'm not sure if the 500m has 1080p/72 upconversation though?

The only thing I'm confused about which I asked on another thread is if I have the bd player set to 'Source Direct' then where should the 1080p/24 option be set at in the bd player since 'Source Direct' sends the bd's 1080p/24 source to the Kuro display no matter what, whether 1080p/24 is turned on or off the Kuro display gets it. snsguy said he noticed with 1080p/24 turned on it was effecting the PQ on his plasma.

[scweb13]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

I'm not familiar with the Pio 500m series. I am familiar with the Pio 111FD, 151FD, 141FD models. I have the Pio 151FD. Those Pio FD models all detect a 1080p/24 source and upconverts it to 1080p/72 no matter what, even if you don't have Advance Mode turned on in the Film Mode menu, it will automatically turn Advance on by itself if it gets a 1080p/24 source. So it's very convenient and user friendly, so all you need to do is set the bd player to 'Source Direct' and the Pio display handles it and converts it to 1080p/72. I'm not sure if the 500m has 1080p/72 upconversation though?

The 500M uses most of the same parts as the 101, including the panel. It's like the 101's younger brother. It has 2 less HDMI ports and ISF is not available without a software patch. For all intents and purposes, they are almost exactly the same and I'm positive that they handle a 24fps source the same too.

[fuwa]

I have noticed the 'jittering effect' in pan and scan scenes on the Kuro. I have also noticed this effect at the movie theater. I watched Gran Torino at my local theater using DLP projection and noticed the picket fences showing jittering when the camera panned.

Sometimes we get too critical when we purchase an expensive TV. I have noticed weak blacks in some scenes at the theaters. I think that is just the way the film was shot or processed.

When viewing "21" on blu-ray I noticed the buildings 'jittering' as the camera pans across the skyline at the beginning of the film. This is decreased when switching from Advanced mode to Smooth mode but I observe some artifacts when using smooth mode. I believe this was brought out by a reviewer in one of the "shootouts" who rated the Pioneer lower than the Sony XBR8 due to this issue.

I just watch in advanced mode. I have the Sony blu-ray player that I got at Costco and I can't find any 'source direct' to chose in the menu.

[snsguy]

Originally Posted by fuwa

I have noticed the 'jittering effect' in pan and scan scenes on the Kuro. I have also noticed this effect at the movie theater. I watched Gran Torino at my local theater using DLP projection and noticed the picket fences showing jittering when the camera panned.

Sometimes we get too critical when we purchase an expensive TV. I have noticed weak blacks in some scenes at the theaters. I think that is just the way the film was shot or processed.

When viewing "21" on blu-ray I noticed the buildings 'jittering' as the camera pans across the skyline at the beginning of the film. This is decreased when switching from Advanced mode to Smooth mode but I observe some artifacts when using smooth mode. I believe this was brought out by a reviewer in one of the "shootouts" who rated the Pioneer lower than the Sony XBR8 due to this issue.

I just watch in advanced mode. I have the Sony blu-ray player that I got at Costco and I can't find any 'source direct' to chose in the menu.

I understand what your saying on the jittering I have seen it in theaters too, but with 24 fps off and advanced mode on it is much smoother and more watchable like it is in the theater. It just looks much more natural. I couldn't find source direct either in my Panny menu but my guess turning the 24 fps off allows the tv to do it which it seems very much like it is. Try it for yourself and see if there is a difference to you. To me it seemed like they were struggling with each other to produce the film.

SNSGUY

[oppopioneer]

I'm not familiar with the term "jittering" and what it's meant to be. It might be what I experience with my Pio Kuro sometimes.

When I watch HD cable tv that only goes up to 1080i, on very fast action scenes and fast pan and scan the screen gets very digitized and processed and square blocky with a faint hint of static, like a YouTube video on a computer monitor. I have the Kuro set to Film Mode-Standard, it's even worse when it's set to Advance for 1080i. Advance is only suppose to be activated for 1080p/24.

[TheFactor]

I havent noticed any "jittering on my 6020 on cable 1080i and as a matter of fact I was watching Underworld on cable last night and theres alot of flying and jump fast action and it was pretty smooth. But normaly on cable i'll either have the pure cinema on standard or off . But im sure the options are different on the Elite models that I dont have .

[Alkaline]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

I'm not familiar with the term "jittering" and what it's meant to be. It might be what I experience with my Pio Kuro sometimes.

When I watch HD cable tv that only goes up to 1080i, on very fast action scenes and fast pan and scan the screen gets very digitized and processed and square blocky with a faint hint of static, like a YouTube video on a computer monitor. I have the Kuro set to Film Mode-Standard, it's even worse when it's set to Advance for 1080i. Advance is only suppose to be activated for 1080p/24.

The "square blocky" look on fast action scenes is the result of low bandwidth by the cable provider, not a flaw with the Kuro. You have to keep in mind HD cable feeds are highly compressed compared to what you get with blu-ray or even dvd with a decent bitrate. On fast and "chaotic" scenes the bandwidth often just can't keep up, hence the blocks. The Kuro basically spits out whatever you feed it verbatim. Unfortunately the flaws of cable stand out on it more than a lot of other tvs.

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by Alkaline

The "square blocky" look on fast action scenes is the result of low bandwidth by the cable provider, not a flaw with the Kuro. You have to keep in mind HD cable feeds are highly compressed compared to what you get with blu-ray or even dvd with a decent bitrate. On fast and "chaotic" scenes the bandwidth often just can't keep up, hence the blocks. The Kuro basically spits out whatever you feed it verbatim. Unfortunately the flaws of cable stand out on it more than a lot of other tvs.

Typical of Comcast, they either currently don't have the technology and where with all to fix or improve it, or too cheap or purposely doing that to get you to buy some very expensive package where they send you a superior signal. I do know they do that with their internet speeds with bit torrent and throttle their speeds. I've had Comcast internet since 2006 and it's very inconsistent. Verizon and AT&T are always ranked higher in customer satisfaction.

I do have the DVDO Edge outboard processor that is for cable and satellite tv that upconverts all signals to 1080p/60 but I have that on my upstairs tv which is a Sony LCD and I wanted to improve that signal because the picture on that isn't that good and the Pio Kuro's picture is so good I didn't want to waste it on the Kuro. Better to have two tv's in the house with good PQ instead of one.

[snsguy]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Typical of Comcast, they either currently don't have the technology and where with all to fix or improve it, or too cheap or purposely doing that to get you to buy some very expensive package where they send you a superior signal. I do know they do that with their internet speeds with bit torrent and throttle their speeds. I've had Comcast internet since 2006 and it's very inconsistent. Verizon and AT&T are always ranked higher in customer satisfaction.

I do have the DVDO Edge outboard processor that is for cable and satellite tv that upconverts all signals to 1080p/60 but I have that on my upstairs tv which is a Sony LCD and I wanted to improve that signal because the picture on that isn't that good and the Pio Kuro's picture is so good I didn't want to waste it on the Kuro. Better to have two tv's in the house with good PQ instead of one.

I have Comcast also. It's never been consistent with either the cable tv or cable internet. I get a better signal from someone named joan then I do in my own house which is wireless. Networks seem to very inconsistent also. One network may look great with one setting by have the blocking and jittering effect happening, or skipping if you want to call it that, with the same settings. I think I figured out the blu-ray setting but wondered what is the best Drive mode and IP mode settings that you guys are using for both blu-ray and cable tv. Neither D-Nice's or elite-home's settings state which one for the IP mode and I assume some prefer or know which setting is better in drive mode. Thanks!

SNSGUY

[fuwa]

Originally Posted by snsguy

I understand what your saying on the jittering I have seen it in theaters too, but with 24 fps off and advanced mode on it is much smoother and more watchable like it is in the theater. It just looks much more natural. I couldn't find source direct either in my Panny menu but my guess turning the 24 fps off allows the tv to do it which it seems very much like it is. Try it for yourself and see if there is a difference to you. To me it seemed like they were struggling with each other to produce the film.

SNSGUY

I turned the 24fps off on my Sony blu-ray and the pans appeared smoother on the screen. Although 24fps is suppose to be film like and smooth, the 60fps appears better when I use it.

If you turn off the 24fps on your blu-ray, it sends 60fps to the Kuro and it does a 3:2 pulldown whereas if you send the 24fps it is 3:3, the Kuro 72hz processes the 24fps.

I believe the system is designed for the blu ray to send 1080/24P to the Kuro so it can process the video using 72 hz. The 24P is suppose to be the best way to view film material so why don't doesn't it appear as smooth as the 60 hz?

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by snsguy

I have Comcast also. It's never been consistent with either the cable tv or cable internet. I get a better signal from someone named joan then I do in my own house which is wireless. Networks seem to very inconsistent also. One network may look great with one setting by have the blocking and jittering effect happening, or skipping if you want to call it that, with the same settings.

I share a single family house with a friend. My internet is direct cable with a desktop computer, my friend uses a wireless laptop, both on Comcast. When we're both online at the sametime it is drastically slower. It's almost like I'm on a 56k modem.

Originally Posted by snsguy

I think I figured out the blu-ray setting but wondered what is the best Drive mode and IP mode settings that you guys are using for both blu-ray and cable tv. Neither D-Nice's or elite-home's settings state which one for the IP mode and I assume some prefer or know which setting is better in drive mode.

I'm not familiar or sure what you mean with your bluray situation. Do you have your bluray plugged into the internet with ethernet and use it to download and stream movies from Netflix? I've never done that. I prefer to watch all bluray movies with the actual disc which always produces a superior PQ and always get the actual 1080p/24 HD native content compared to streaming online content.