Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by mrr1

Filming a guy in a helmet will always look like a guy wearing a helmet. Drawing a CG helmet over someone's face will usually look unreal somehow. I think George Lucas just hates working with actors and for the prequels he preferred to just copy and paste troopers into his shots.

That said, the special effects aren't the biggest concern with the prequels.

You are right, but if the special effects were good people could at least say, "Well the plot stinks, but the visuals are good!" Instead we're left with a sorry script and sorry F/X.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmet

I applaud Abrams for going back to using practical effects and actual costumes instead of what Lucas did in the prequels where it was 50-60% CGI.

Fixed it for you.


http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/


Meanwhile for Episode VII it will probably be 40% (100% for flying ships):

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed it for you.


http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/


Meanwhile for Episode VII it will probably be 40% (100% for flying ships):

What do you want them to do, go to space and film them there? We've already seen life size ships. We'll see if they used models for scenes in space soon enough.

[PeterTHX]

More here -


http://furiousfanboys.com/2014/05/th...-green-screen/


http://furiousfanboys.com/2014/05/th...s-model-or-cg/


I think Abrams & Co. have to say it because of the misrepresentation the prequels have had for the past 15 years.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed it for you.


http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/


Meanwhile for Episode VII it will probably be 40% (100% for flying ships):

Are the troopers there guys in costumes or CGI?

[Darth Helmet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed it for you.


http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/


Meanwhile for Episode VII it will probably be 40% (100% for flying ships):

Thanks for the link. I enjoy looking at behind the scenes stuff.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed it for you.


http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/


Meanwhile for Episode VII it will probably be 40% (100% for flying ships):

[Show spoiler]

Just WOW! I mean, I knew their approach to the prequels was practical first, CG if not possible (except the clone troopers of course, I don't agree about that myself), there are so many shots that I thought was CG. Boy, was I so wrong. Like I really thought the Kaminoan room were 100% CG. I thought I've seen them all. Thanks for the link Pete, anybody who's into Star Wars or film making should check out that link. That is Industrial Light & Magic for you.



Trivia: The whole city was CGI in most shots in The Avengers climactic battle.

[aiman04]

I see veteran model make Lorne Peterson in one of those pictures, it really make me feel so sad. He was there with ILM from the very beginning. I feel bad for the practical set & model makers, prosthetic make-ups & puppeteers, etc. They worked so hard and how much of it was on screen, but people talks about the CG all the time. Even worse their work was mistaken to be CG and then they won't get all the credit they deserve. We need to appreciate them more.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by aiman04

I see veteran model make Lorne Peterson in one of those pictures, it really make me feel so sad. He was there with ILM from the very beginning. I feel bad for the practical set & model makers, prosthetic make-ups & puppeteers, etc. They worked so hard and how much of it was on screen, but people talks about the CG all the time. Even worse their work was mistaken to be CG and then they won't get all the credit they deserve. We need to appreciate them more.

That's why it's all George Lucas' fault - those folks' work was not noticed in the prequels because Lucas filled the screen too much with other cgi elements and did not inspire his actors to give good performances. We all saw how his added cgi characters to New Hope (Jabba) and Jedi (Jabba's singing lip alien) threw everything off. He doesnt know how to handle cgi.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

That's why it's all George Lucas' fault - those folks' work was not noticed in the prequels because Lucas filled the screen too much with other cgi elements and did not inspire his actors to give good performances. We all saw how his added cgi characters to New Hope (Jabba) and Jedi (Jabba's singing lip alien) threw everything off. He doesnt know how to handle cgi.

His fault again? The practical stuffs are there whether there is any added CGI or not. That is common with visual effects even in the original trilogy a combination of models and matte painting were there as well. Like I said they approach mostly with practical first, the "added" CGI are those that can't be done on set (again except for clone troopers I give you that). It is we the "fan" that refuse to acknowledge it and keep saying "they still look like CG" and ignore the fact just to bash Lucas, how is that his fault? I think that is an achievement instead when the models and CGI blends really well and fool all of us. I suggest everyone go back and watch the prequels again, because I really doubt any of you saw them in the last 10 years.

[Geoff D]

While those practical models look great in a still photograph (on film, heh) they just didn't translate across at all well on screen in Clones because of the poor performance of the fledgling Sony HD cameras for miniature work. They had to fit on ridiculously long lenses to get the depth of field right (or as close to correct as they could get) which meant flooding the miniatures with so much light that some of them actually started melting, and they just look really 'off' in the final film. There are some model backgrounds like the Jedi Temple interiors that look so ersatz and digital it's hard to believe they're not 100% CG.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While those practical models look great in a still photograph (on film, heh) they just didn't translate across at all well on screen in Clones because of the poor performance of the fledgling Sony HD cameras for miniature work. They had to fit on ridiculously long lenses to get the depth of field right (or as close to correct as they could get) which meant flooding the miniatures with so much light that some of them actually started melting, and they just look really 'off' in the final film. There are some model backgrounds like the Jedi Temple interiors that look so ersatz and digital it's hard to believe they're not 100% CG.

Thanks for the more sensible explanations. That is probably the reason. The Phantom Menace was shot on film, and hence they look more real. I have a good feeling that The Force Awakens will look good as well as they also shot on film.

Digital movies now do a process to have the picture have that film-look making it look less digital.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by aiman04

His fault again? The practical stuffs are there whether there is any added CGI or not. That is common with visual effects even in the original trilogy a combination of models and matte painting were there as well. Like I said they approach mostly with practical first, the "added" CGI are those that can't be done on set (again except for clone troopers I give you that). It is we the "fan" that refuse to acknowledge it and keep saying "they still look like CG" and ignore the fact just to bash Lucas, how is that his fault? I think that is an achievement instead when the models and CGI blends really well and fool all of us. I suggest everyone go back and watch the prequels again, because I really doubt any of you saw them in the last 10 years.

Please don't start preaching because I've known about all the practical stuff from the get go, yet knowing that it's 'real' doesn't make the visuals in Clones look any less fake and unreal to me. As you said, in Phantom Menace they had to work hard to make the VFX match the distortion of the anamorphic lenses and to add the grain and so on, there's a tangible sense of reality there, but when they get to Clones it's got this weirdly flat, cartoony feel to the visuals (partly for the reason I explained above). Sith is a lot better but still isn't quite there, let down as it is by stuff like the appalling live action/CG combo Clone Troopers.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Please don't start preaching because I've known about all the practical stuff from the get go, yet knowing that it's 'real' doesn't make the visuals in Clones look any less fake and unreal to me. As you said, in Phantom Menace they had to work hard to make the VFX match the distortion of the anamorphic lenses and to add the grain and so on, there's a tangible sense of reality there, but when they get to Clones it's got this weirdly flat, cartoony feel to the visuals (partly for the reason I explained above). Sith is a lot better but still isn't quite there, let down as it is by stuff like the appalling live action/CG combo Clone Troopers.

It wasn't directed at you. My point was simple, the practical stuff was there, tons of them. That is all, only because people keep saying that they're almost non-existent in the prequels. Whether they look good or not that's another thing. I was trying to figure out why they keep saying that hence my "blends well" remark.

[Moviefan2k4]

I remember being really surprised, to see they actually built the main exterior for Theed as a miniature. I always thought it was CG, ever since the initial release.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I remember being really surprised, to see they actually built the main exterior for Theed as a miniature. I always thought it was CG, ever since the initial release.

Exactly.

People were surprised at the amount of model work because the movies all look like super fake CGI-a-thons. No behind-the-scenes photo makes that not the case. Also for every BTS model shot there is another one of poor Ewan McGregor standing in an all green room reacting to nothing, so it's a mixed bag anyway.

[Gamma_Winstead]

All you really have to do is look at the shot in AotC when Mace, Kit Fitso, and Kyudi-Mundi (I KNOW I got his name wrong. He's the cone headed dude) get off the clone transport during the battle of Geonosis. Mace approaches a CG clone to give orders. Not only is the Clone CG... But so is the ground. The sand mace walks on isn't real. Nothing is real except three actors. They're in a blue room. Walking on blue flooring. Looking at tennis balls. It's painfully obvious, and for all the hard work put into the films, they're undone in simple moments like that.

[aiman04]

The prequels look like mainly CGI: OPINION
The prequels have a lot of practical effects: FACT

Opinions are fine, we can agree to disagree. I hope we can finally put that to rest.

[partridge]

The prequels look like dated CGI: FACT

Lucas thought he was doing the right thing by going as digital as possible and pushing new technologies, but with hindsight it was the wrong decision. The prequels have dated far worse than the OT

[rickah88]

So the Prequel CGI vs Practical Effects debate rages on in the VII thread.