Fantastic Four (2015)

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I don;t think Marvel would be taking these approaches if Fox had been treating the Fantastic Four and X-Men franchises with respect. I think that Marvel isn't happy with how Fox has been handling these two franchises and they want those properties back. Sony has made more of an impact with the Spiderman films than Fox has had with Fantastic Four or X-Men.

I think you are 50% right and 50% wrong.


Fantastic Four = right

X-Men = wrong


I'm pretty sure Marvel would love to play nice with Fox when it comes to the success of the X-Men films. Kevin Feige got his start on the X-Men films. Stop trying to be so pro-Marvel and so anti-Fox/anti-Singer when it comes to the X-Men movies. You're never going to see Hugh Jackman in yellow spandex --- deal with it!

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

I think you are 50% right and 50% wrong.


Fantastic Four = right

X-Men = wrong


I'm pretty sure Marvel would love to play nice with Fox when it comes to the success of the X-Men films. Kevin Feige got his start on the X-Men films. Stop trying to be so pro-Marvel and so anti-Fox/anti-Singer when it comes to the X-Men movies. You're never going to see Hugh Jackman in yellow spandex --- deal with it!

[Show spoiler]

But I actually tend to agree. Aside from one (really) bad one, aka X3, and one fairly mediocre one, Origins, Fox's work on X-Men movies has been ranging from good to very good imo.
So given that I doubt Disney would really have more than 2-3 comic book movies in them for any one year, it is probably safer for now to have Fox managing the movie licence for the X verse.

As per the FF, Marvel needs it back .. like .. right now. They have some of the best (if not -the- best) vilains of the entire Marvel universe (e.g. Silver Surfer, Galactus, Annihilus, Molecule Man, Namor, and of course Doom), and they have not really been treated too well by Fox so far.

Looks like Fox is intent on playing hard ball with Disney (maybe for the launch of their TV series, which might have been a grey area where copyrights are concerned until recently?), which led to the current situation.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Oh, I totally believe that Marvel is doing this because of Fox. It was just revealed today by X-Men writer Chris Claremont that there is a ban on creating any new mutant characters in the comics (not that we really need anymore), because that automatically gives Fox the rights to those characters and essentially helps promote Fox as rights holder for the X-Men films.

Well that makes sense, I suppose.

The X-Men movies are great, it's a shame Marvel can't just embrace that.

[kemcha]

The X-men films aren't all that great. I tried sitting through X-Men: First Class and it was just too boring for me to sit through. Days of Future Past was passable but I hated the designs of the Sentinels. Now comes word that Fox was to center future X-Men movies on Mystique, possibly due to Jennifer Lawrence's new found box office draw.

I've also been thinking about this and with Marvel ending Fantastic Four, killing off Wolverine, and placing a ban on the creation of new mutants in the X-Men titles, Marvel is hitting Fox where it hurts the most. Plus, Singer violated the one thing that he saw as a problem for X-Men the Last Stand; too many mutants to deal with the plot.

[Snikt]

Originally Posted by kemcha

The X-men films aren't all that great. I tried sitting through X-Men: First Class and it was just too boring for me to sit through. Days of Future Past was passable but I hated the designs of the Sentinels. Now comes word that Fox was to center future X-Men movies on Mystique, possibly due to Jennifer Lawrence's new found box office draw.

I've also been thinking about this and with Marvel ending Fantastic Four, killing off Wolverine, and placing a ban on the creation of new mutants in the X-Men titles, Marvel is hitting Fox where it hurts the most. Plus, Singer violated the one thing that he saw as a problem for X-Men the Last Stand; too many mutants to deal with the plot.

You may think that, but you're in the minority. Majority of fans and movie goers quite enjoy the X-Men films.

[kemcha]

I doubt that. But, I'm just stating my personal opinion and going by how long I have read and collected the X-Men comics ever since the early 80's. From what I have watched, live action and animated, the X-Men animated series have done more to faithfully adapt the original comic storylines from X-Men than the live action films have done and that is a sad commentary on the Fox films.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I doubt that. But, I'm just stating my personal opinion and going by how long I have read and collected the X-Men comics ever since the early 80's. From what I have watched, live action and animated, the X-Men animated series have done more to faithfully adapt the original comic storylines from X-Men than the live action films have done and that is a sad commentary on the Fox films.

I hate repeating the same stuff over and over, but again:

1) The X-Men movies, on average, are well reviewed and extremely successful at the box office. There is no debating this.

2) Faithfulness to the comics is not what decides if the movie is good or not.

3) If you found First Class "too boring to sit through" yet love an old 90's cartoon then you are looking for things in these movies I know I'm not, and I doubt most mainstream audiences are either.

[kemcha]

Stinging. I'm not debating that the movies have generated a lot of money worldwide. However, as many could point out here, just because a movie draws a lot of money at the box office, doesn't mean it's a good movie. It just means that a lot of people went to see the movie once and that generated a lot of income.

Even the reverse is true. TV shows and movies that have performed poorly at the box office but generated more revenue on DVD and Blu-ray then they did during their original broadcast or theatrical run. I point you to Firefly The Series and the movie Serenity for that one.

Movies like the Golden Compass, I Am Number Four, Independence Day are just a select few films that I recall where the movies made money at the box office. What reviews are you talking about? Reviews by movie fans who want to see the same trash poured out a bucket?

I simply said that the animated series did a better job at adapting those X-Men storyarcs than the live action movies did. That's what sad about Singer's X-Men films.

[xander]

What are you going on about? The x men films on the whole have enjoyed critical and commercial success. Jump onto RT, Metacritic or IMDB. The most recent entry was 91% fresh critic and 93% fresh audience. PEOPLE AND CRITICS LIKE THEM.

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Stinging. I'm not debating that the movies have generated a lot of money worldwide. However, as many could point out here, just because a movie draws a lot of money at the box office, doesn't mean it's a good movie. It just means that a lot of people went to see the movie once and that generated a lot of income.

Even the reverse is true. TV shows and movies that have performed poorly at the box office but generated more revenue on DVD and Blu-ray then they did during their original broadcast or theatrical run. I point you to Firefly The Series and the movie Serenity for that one.

Movies like the Golden Compass, I Am Number Four, Independence Day are just a select few films that I recall where the movies made money at the box office. What reviews are you talking about? Reviews by movie fans who want to see the same trash poured out a bucket?

I simply said that the animated series did a better job at adapting those X-Men storyarcs than the live action movies did. That's what sad about Singer's X-Men films.

The X-Men series has done a lot better than simple box office revenue. You live in Kemchaworld, so it's okay if you missed that. The only one that had a poor reception was X-Men Origins: Wolverine. The Last Stand had a mediocre reception. The rest have all been very well received. You're entitled to your opinion, but using it as a basis for an argument against what are widely considered great movies is futile.

[Thomas Guycott]

Kemcha likes to apply his own opinions to those of the public at large.

It's ridiculous attempting to claim one of the highest grossing, critically reviewed and audience received movies of the year (DoFP) simply wasn't.

[Darkstream]

Kemcha, I too have read the X-Men ever since the early 80's, and then I went back and read all the earlier stuff from the 60's on -- I'm a big old X-Men fan myself -- But I have a totally different view than you do about the movies. Just because they are not 100% faithful to the source material doesn't mean that they are failures as films. They work on their own level, but they still work, and with great success! Also, the X-men movies started coming out way before Marvel even thought about making their own movies, so respect needs to be given to the fact that the X-Men movies came first, and the possibility that Marvel Studios may not even operate the way it does had it not been for the success of the X-Men (and Spider-Man) films that came before the release of Iron Man. I love what Marvel Studios has done, but I think Fox has done equally great films their own way when it comes to the X-Men franchise.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Kemcha, I too have read the X-Men ever since the early 80's, and then I went back and read all the earlier stuff from the 60's on -- I'm a big old X-Men fan myself -- But I have a totally different view than you do about the movies. Just because they are not 100% faithful to the source material doesn't mean that they are failures as films. They work on their own level, but they still work, and with great success! Also, the X-men movies started coming out way before Marvel even thought about making their own movies, so respect needs to be given to the fact that the X-Men movies came first, and the possibility that Marvel Studios may not even operate the way it does had it not been for the success of the X-Men (and Spider-Man) films that came before the release of Iron Man. I love what Marvel Studios has done, but I think Fox has done equally great films their own way when it comes to the X-Men franchise.

I started reading comics in the mid-60s and the X-Men were in my top two (Legion of Super-Heroes being the other, if anybody cares) and I absolutely loved the movies. Well, the first two, anyway

You referenced the yellow spandex line in an earlier post and I almost responded then: I loved that. The movies weren't slavish adaptations of any one run but they captured the spirit of the comics and had some fun nods to the classic era. I went into the first one without knowing much about it and with relatively muted expectations. I was basically just killing time at a neighborhood theater. But I was blown away.

[toddly6666]

Besides X-Men Origins Wolverine, the majority of the films are well liked and are done extremely well - even X-men 3!

You haters cant deny that 5 out of the 7 X-Men films have received very good reviews by critics and fans.

[mrr1]

If you don't like the X-Men movies for whatever reason, that's your prerogative. But objectively speaking, the majority of the X-Men movies are good movies and have been a success.


However, the Fantastic 4 movies so far have licked pouch, and this one doesn't look good.

[camper]

I enjoyed the first 2 Fantastic Four movies, they weren't as good as the X-Men films but I liked them.

THe problem as I see it with this film is that they're being lazy about it, and the decisions they're making don't make sense.

Not to resurrect a dead horse and beat it again, but bringing in a black actor to play Johnny Storm really makes that obvious. Not that a black actor is bad, if they want to diversify the team do it--but don't do it with a character that has a blood relation on the team, and that blood relation is white. If they want Storm black, make Sue black too. If they just want a black character because that's how they can show they're "progressive" then make it the smartest guy on the team...Mr Fantastic. Or make him Ben Grimm.

To me its just lazy and half assed, and ignores the history of the characters for marketing purposes. And if you ignore the history of the characters and deviate in ways that make no sense, then don't be surprised if the people who grew up with them not only don't care about the film, but will avoid it.

[StingingVelvet]

Is him being adopted really a big deal?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by camper

If they just want a black character because that's how they can show they're "progressive"...

Do you a specific reason for believing that was the reason for casting Michael B Jordan?

[Comicman494]

I am genuinely excited that Sue will be the adopted sibling, honestly. It's always the black child who's adopted. This is a welcome change in my opinion.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Comicman494

I am genuinely excited that Sue will be the adopted sibling, honestly. It's always the black child who's adopted. This is a welcome change in my opinion.

Oh, that is cool!