Dressed to Kill (1980)

[EricHG]

Originally Posted by slimdude

I'm glad that Body Double wasn't made to be hardcore pornographic because it wouldn't have worked at all. The movie was perfect as an R-Rated, erotic thriller just the way it was. Nothing more or nothing less.

Oh it wouldn't have worked whatsoever. In Double DePalma there is always the question of DePalma was just trying to rile the press up after all the debates about whether Dressed to Kill was misogynistic, etc.

[dkelly26666]

I always thought "Dressed to Kill" was a wonderful ride.

I saw it new in the theater, and I always found it entertaining. It was the kind of film Hitchcock surely would have made if he'd lived longer into the post code era. The opening night crowd I saw it with ate it up, screaming and gasping and laughing and cheering.

I remember one area had "Caligula" and "Dressed to Kill" booked into a prestigious, top tier, two screen, art house type of cinema at the same time, and it brought out a group of people protesting with picket signs at such 'filth' being shown in their upper crust area.

I even included "Dressed to Kill" on my annual Top Ten Films list in 1980, alongside the likes of Scorsese's "Raging Bull" and Lynch's "The Elephant Man" and so forth, and people thought I was crazy, LOL.

Glad to see that time has made people appreciate the film more.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by MJD64

Angie Dickinson finding those test results after a little "afternoon delight" is a terrific example of De Palma's wicked sense of humor...

I think we're supposed to feel sad for her. Here's a middle-aged woman, trapped in a loveless marriage, bored by her suburban life, who finally does something for herself, and instead of feeling freed, is drawn into a nightmare scenario... and that's before the shock murder.

[EricHG]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

I always thought "Dressed to Kill" was a wonderful ride.


Glad to see that time has made people appreciate the film more.

That's a great description. I thought the Guardian's recent piece on the film's 40th was well written--addressing why some people find it more and more "problematic" due to modern trans issues, but working away from that (the headline is misleading). It's interesting, though--at the time all of the criticism was around questions of misogyny and any issue about it being potentially offensive to trans people was, of course, almost completely ignored.

(Speaking of an LGTBQ element, DePalma starts the doc saying how the impetus came from a treatment he did for a movie based on Cruising, but he couldn't get the rights--so he made the gallery scene a straight cruising. I've always wondered what DePalma's Cruising would have been like...)

https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...to-kill-psycho

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by EricHG

That's a great description. I thought the Guardian's recent piece on the film's 40th was well written--addressing why some people find it more and more "problematic" due to modern trans issues, but working away from that (the headline is misleading). It's interesting, though--at the time all of the criticism was around questions of misogyny and any issue about it being potentially offensive to trans people was, of course, almost completely ignored.

(Speaking of an LGTBQ element, DePalma starts the doc saying how the impetus came from a treatment he did for a movie based on Cruising, but he couldn't get the rights--so he made the gallery scene a straight cruising. I've always wondered what DePalma's Cruising would have been like...)

https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...to-kill-psycho

This film was essentially an homage to "Psycho". The elevator was the shower, the lead dies early on and we get another lead, and the trans killer were all nods to "Psycho". I had always liked that "Psycho", even way back then, took steps to CORRECT the police man who called Norman Bates a 'transvestite', by having the psychiatrist explain that Norman was not a trans person, but was merely two personalities, himself and the mother he'd killed, and that there was no sexual component to it.

But, by "Dressed to Kill", De Palma I supposed wanted to bring the film into the 70s/80s, and bring more sexuality into it. From casual sex to prostitution to transexuality, I guess he was just using the sex to shock a mainstream audience, and give an edge to that violence. But, the cross dressing killer was a definite "Psycho" nod, and not just De Palma waking up one day and deciding to attack trans people or anything. Just like he explained he wasn't being misogynistic, either, he just thought a young woman in peril is more sympathetic and worrisome for an audience than 'Rambo' in peril.

That's my take on it.

If the film comes across as misogynistic or transphobic, I think those things were accidental.

[RevengeOfToonces]

Just watched this again for maybe the third time in my life. Once when I was in college, again when the blu-ray came out and again just now. God damn, I f***ing love Brian De Palma. I think this is his best film. It's like a scene-by-scene patchwork, style-wise, of everything I love about his movies. Makes for a phenomenal midnight viewing too.

[ravenus]

I think I like Blow Out and Femme Fatale a little more, but this one is pretty cool too.

[TenYearLurker]

Originally Posted by RevengeOfToonces

Just watched this again for maybe the third time in my life. Once when I was in college, again when the blu-ray came out and again just now. God damn, I f***ing love Brian De Palma. I think this is his best film. It's like a scene-by-scene patchwork, style-wise, of everything I love about his movies. Makes for a phenomenal midnight viewing too.

De Palma is one of my top 5 favorite directors. Dressed To Kill definitely makes my top 5 of his, but only if Carlito's Way, Blow Out, Body Double, and Phantom Of The Paradise fill the other spots.

And he has so many other movies that I love and own, that would be in contention. What a filmmaker. Goddamn.

[CreasyBear]

Highly recommend Douglas Keesey's book "Brian De Palma's Split-Screen: A Life in Film."

https://www.amazon.com/Brian-Palmas-.../dp/1628466979

[MJD64]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

Just like he explained he wasn't being misogynistic, either, he just thought a young woman in peril is more sympathetic and worrisome for an audience than 'Rambo' in peril.

That's my take on it.

If the film comes across as misogynistic or transphobic, I think those things were accidental.

Agreed. Here's De Palma in the book "Double De Palma" (about the making of BODY DOUBLE) on this issue: "I'm basically making a theatrical melodrama!" he insisted. "I'm using a conventional genre - women in peril - which goes back to THE PERILS OF PAULINE! Suddenly, this has become politicized. The fact is if you put a man in peril, audiences are not going to be as concerned. If you have Roy Scheider being stalked (he is thinking of Robert Benton's STILL OF THE NIGHT, which Greenberg edited), it's not as scary as having a frail woman stalked, it's as simple as that!"

I've often felt De Palma was criticized so severely in this area because these scenes are done with his unique mix of intoxicatingly stylish panache and mordant humor - they're so cleverly and effectively done that if you're particularly sensitive to this issue they can't help but disturb you. I see these genre tropes pulled off with such marvelous technical assurance and virtuosity I'm frequently dazzled, and don't feel De Palma is revealing some inner misogynist.

Besides, a filmmaker capable of giving audiences the emotionally devastating CASUALTIES OF WAR - where a viewer painfully, acutely feels the cruelty inflicted on its lead female character - is no misogynist.

Originally Posted by TenYearLurker

And he has so may other movies that I love and own, that would be in contention. What a filmmaker. Holy mackerel.

Absolutely...and I gave your conclusion a bit of De Palma fixin'.

[mulscul]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Highly recommend Douglas Keesey's book "Brian De Palma's Split-Screen: A Life in Film."

https://www.amazon.com/Brian-Palmas-.../dp/1628466979

I wonder why depalma shot body double in 1:85 when blow out and dressed to kill were 2:35?

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by mulscul

I wonder why depalma shot body double in 1:85 when blow out and dressed to kill were 2:35?

Likely because 1.85 better resembles a photograph and since Body Double deals heavily with voyeurism and looking through camera lenses and telescopes, it lends itself better to 1.85 than 2.35. Typically, when De Palma is dealing more with the inner workings of the psyches of his characters, such as Carrie, Body Double, or Raising Cain, he goes back to 1.85, lending a more intimate feel to the film.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by MJD64

Besides, a filmmaker capable of giving audiences the emotionally devastating CASUALTIES OF WAR - where a viewer painfully, acutely feels the cruelty inflicted on its lead female character - is no misogynist.

Casualties is emotionally shattering. That scene on the bridge is like punch to the guts by Mike Tyson. It's such a shame the film was overlooked at the Oscars.

[TrentW1982]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Likely because 1.85 better resembles a photograph and since Body Double deals heavily with voyeurism and looking through camera lenses and telescopes, it lends itself better to 1.85 than 2.35. Typically, when De Palma is dealing more with the inner workings of the psyches of his characters, such as Carrie, Body Double, or Raising Cain, he goes back to 1.85, lending a more intimate feel to the film.

That is likely one factor but I think another is just that the VHS market was more of a consideration in 1984, so there was a move to less 2.35 films from the mid-80s so that less of the image was lost in pan & scan versions.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by TrentW1982

That is likely one factor but I think another is just that the VHS market was more of a consideration in 1984, so there was a move to less 2.35 films from the mid-80s so that less of the image was lost in pan & scan versions.

I don't really think that's it. Aside from Body Double and Wise Guys, a comedy, all of his 80's films were 2.35. Carrie and The Fury were 1.85 again, pre-VHS.

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Casualties is emotionally shattering. That scene on the bridge is like punch to the guts by Mike Tyson. It's such a shame the film was overlooked at the Oscars.

Casualties of War is SUPERB.

That's yet ANOTHER one by him that I got immediately and it seemed to take ages for other people to appreciate properly.

I think, looking back, that the two main things that hurt it was A) It came out during a time when there were a large amount of Vietnam films, and it kind of got buried among them all, and B) I always felt that it hurt the film to be released during the summer. I think it would have fared better as a 'serious Fall movie'. It came out the same summer that Batman, the third Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters II, Star Trek V, Honey I Shrunk the Kids and lots of others were out. It was this dark, serious film, out there among the kid stuff. I always felt it should have come out a month or two later.

[Jado3Dhead]

What is the best site to buy this that has the second pressing? There will still be many first printings around, which I don't want to end up buying.

[davidthenikonuser]

Originally Posted by Jado3Dhead

What is the best site to buy this that has the second pressing? There will still be many first printings around, which I don't want to end up buying.

Most of the first pressings where recalled, so you should be good buying it with a second pressing disc. Plus it's been years since it was released so I highly doubt there are any bad copy's floating around anymore.

[NKB2017]

Originally Posted by davidthenikonuser

Most of the first pressings where recalled, so you should be good buying it with a second pressing disc. Plus it's been years since it was released so I highly doubt there are any bad copy's floating around anymore.

'Dressed To Kill'? Criterion?

[captainron_howdy]

Originally Posted by NKB2017

'Dressed To Kill'? Criterion?

Something went very wrong w the first pressing......https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dress...lu-ray/129819/