Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by afr52

I had it on Betamax originally.

I'm guessing it was around 1979 or 1980 when a next door neighbor kid I used to hang out with - their family had this on Betamax (along with at least a dozen other movies including Grease). It was this and the Sunday Night ABC movie when I saw Superman my first couple of times. Whoever knew then almost 40 years later I would soon be watching this on 4K at home on a large screen. Crazy to think about it.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Wednesday’s suck. I’m leaving work early so I can watch this before the wife gets home.

[Blu Ray McHone]

I first saw this on a worn out VHS tape I bought from Meijers video store as a kid. It is still as wonderful as it ever was. Can't wait to get my copy.

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by JAWS

I get why people hate redone tracks.. JAWS and the Terminator drive me crazy. But I like the Superman version. But I don't know that one like I do the other two mentioned films.

Oh Jaws is, by FAR, the worst of the remix offenders.

1. ALL of the gunshots are altered.
2. The whale sound effect is changed.
3. Multiple foley effects are replaced throughout.
3. And the absolute worst revision I've ever seen in a remix: Brody's last line to the shark "smile, you son of a b*tch!" is censored. The new gunshot/explosion sound effect is so loud that you can't hear what he says like you can in the original mono track. The 7.1 attempted to fix this and did to some degree, but it's still not *nearly* as audible as it is in the mono.

[slimdude]

I have a feeling that Superman II is coming. Warner should've released a boxset in 4K, even though Superman III & IV were duds. Superman Returns wasn't as bad a people claimed it to be.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

Anyone noticing a single frame artifact as Christopher Reeve's credit (opening titles) fades out that is only present on the 4K disc?

Yes, it's a split second but I noticed it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Not surprised this is receiving mixed feelings.

It's not just that "soft movie is soft" though, my misgivings are entirely separate from how it was shot and are entirely to do with how the 4K HDR transfer has been handled. RAH called the 2001 restoration felt "half finished" to him and while I didn't agree there I feel it applies to this new transfer of STM because it seems to be so darned uneven, in several respects.

What's driving me nuts is that they've taken the time to erase the wires holding up Supes in certain shots (like him flying away from the prison warden at the end), they've removed the visible studio backing seen when Krypton ignites, they've colour-corrected the opticals so that his suit still looks gloriously red 'n' blue - but then they go and introduce new problems like the visible garbage mattes around the Kryptonian ship, and the dreadful vertical banding on the iconic 'sunrise' shot is an inexcusable error for me. It's like they were so busy correcting certain flubs that they paid no attention whatsoever to how other parts of the movie may now look in HDR, like the lowering of the gamma which causes the garbage mattes to become visible. And where the fcuk those vertical bands came from I do not know because they're simply not there on the three other distinctly different BD transfers (SE, theatrical, TV) of this movie.

Then there's the HDR grading. They seem to have taken the approach of wanting to peel back a load of highlight detail but still keeping average scene brightness quite low, quite soft, in order to preserve that beautifully diffuse quality of Unsworth's photography, reserving the outright brightest HDR for other effects instead. And it works fine for the actual lighting fixtures like bulbs, lamps etc but they've applied the same thinking to the reflective suits instead of treating them as as one of the brighter effects and I just don't just like the look of them at all, showing all the highlight detail and dulling them down a fair bit compared to how relatively bright they look in SDR. I've been one of HDR's biggest cheerleaders up until now in terms of what it can do - rather than what the fubar consumer rollout has been like - but this is the first time I've genuinely felt that what they've done just doesn't work. Entirely IMO, YMMV etc.

Then there's the grain. Warners don't generally put so much grain on there you could eat it with a spoon, not on BD and not on UHD, fair enough, but they've certainly treated it respectably enough when it was there (Nolan UHDs excepted becuz Nolan). And yet there are certain moments in STM where it feels like the grain is "absent" as one user put it, which sums it up well. It's not that it looks smudgy or waxy but it doesn't feel authentically filmic all the way either, and that the whole film doesn't look like that is what makes it stand out.

Then there's the colour. As mentioned, Supes' suit looks incredible, as do several other examples of primaries and secondaries, but in doing so they seem to have dulled the skin tones quite drastically. Some people still look okay in some scenes but in other scenes there's a distinct paleness and even a sort of yellowy tinge to their skin that I can't help but find distracting. It's not that they looked like lobsters on previous versions so I don't know why it had to be reined in so much here.

One other curious thing, but this is more of a general observation: see how I mentioned the scene in Lex's lair when Supes opens the chest and sees the Kryptonite, that it seems to drop down a few generations in quality for the rest of the scene? Could be an optical but it doesn't look like any VFX is being added. The 2011 theatrical Blu does it and so does this theatrical 4K, but when I watched that scene in the Extended TV Blu the quality stays constant throughout which got me wondering - was that scene damaged somehow on the negative which required changing it out for a dupe at some point? If so, it's possible that the film elements used to create the TV cut were generated before this damage occurred which is why it looks so much better. Just a thought.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not just that "soft movie is soft" though, my misgivings are entirely separate from how it was shot and are entirely to do with how the 4K HDR transfer has been handled. RAH called the 2001 restoration felt "half finished" to him and while I didn't agree there I feel it applies to this new transfer of STM because it seems to be so darned uneven, in several respects.

What's driving me nuts is that they've taken the time to erase the wires holding up Supes in certain shots (like him flying away from the prison warden at the end), they've removed the visible studio backing seen when Krypton ignites, they've colour-corrected the opticals so that his suit still looks gloriously red 'n' blue - but then they go and introduce new problems like the visible garbage mattes around the Kryptonian ship, and the dreadful vertical banding on the iconic 'sunrise' shot is an inexcusable error for me. It's like they were so busy correcting certain flubs that they paid no attention whatsoever to how other parts of the movie may now look in HDR, like the lowering of the gamma which causes the garbage mattes to become visible. And where the fcuk those vertical bands came from I do not know because they're simply not there on the three other distinctly different BD transfers (SE, theatrical, TV) of this movie.

Then there's the HDR grading. They seem to have taken the approach of wanting to peel back a load of highlight detail but still keeping average scene brightness quite low, quite soft, in order to preserve that beautifully diffuse quality of Unsworth's photography, reserving the outright brightest HDR for other effects instead. And it works fine for the actual lighting fixtures like bulbs, lamps etc but they've applied the same thinking to the reflective suits instead of treating them as as one of the brighter effects and I just don't just like the look of them at all, showing all the highlight detail and dulling them down a fair bit compared to how relatively bright they look in SDR. I've been one of HDR's biggest cheerleaders up until now in terms of what it can do - rather than what the fubar consumer rollout has been like - but this is the first time I've genuinely felt that what they've done just doesn't work. Entirely IMO, YMMV etc.

Then there's the grain. Warners don't generally put so much grain on there you could eat it with a spoon, not on BD and not on UHD, fair enough, but they've certainly treated it respectably enough when it was there (Nolan UHDs excepted becuz Nolan). And yet there are certain moments in STM where it feels like the grain is "absent" as one user put it, which sums it up well. It's not that it looks smudgy or waxy but it doesn't feel authentically filmic all the way either, and that the whole film doesn't look like that is what makes it stand out.

Then there's the colour. As mentioned, Supes' suit looks incredible, as do several other examples of primaries and secondaries, but in doing so they seem to have dulled the skin tones quite drastically. Some people still look okay in some scenes but in other scenes there's a distinct paleness and even a sort of yellowy tinge to their skin that I can't help but find distracting. It's not that they looked like lobsters on previous versions so I don't know why it had to be reined in so much here.

One other curious thing, but this is more of a general observation: see how I mentioned the scene in Lex's lair when Supes opens the chest and sees the Kryptonite, that it seems to drop down a few generations in quality for the rest of the scene? Could be an optical but it doesn't look like any VFX is being added. The 2011 theatrical Blu does it and so does this theatrical 4K, but when I watched that scene in the Extended TV Blu the quality stays constant throughout which got me wondering - was that scene damaged somehow on the negative which required changing it out for a dupe at some point? If so, it's possible that the film elements used to create the TV cut were generated before this damage occurred which is why it looks so much better. Just a thought.

I think I’m in the middle between what you saw and others. I don’t think it’s quite as good as others but I also wasn’t bothered by the anomalies like you are. I did think the reflective suits looked very good on my display. They appeared very bright with plenty of detail. I actually felt the HDR grade looked excellent. Could be the case of lower nit OLED syndrome but man highlights looked glorious. Supes suit was easily the best part of the presentation for me. Definitely not washed out as others have said. Grain did look odd in some scenes though. I say this as a total compliment but I think you might be to good for your own good sometimes.

I know you give 2 plops about audio but the Atmos track was excellent. Some of the best overhead direction I’ve heard from an older release. LFE was excellent and highs were nice and silky without sounding harsh.

[Geoff D]

Backhanded complinsult taken, no worries dude.

In many ways it's the half-assed jobs (Batman Begins) that piss me off more than the total disasters (T2) which is why I reference them with such distaste - not that Supes is even anything like Batman Begins! But it's the sort of new transfer that giveth and also taketh away, and I'm just not sure right now that the giveth outweighs the taketh.

I'd still default to it just for that lovely 70mm mix but when I watch it next I'm going to crank the contrast UP (boosting the brightness of dem suits) and turn the black level DOWN (to better mask the garbage mattes) and see how I get on. As I said, I think the HDR works plenty well for any 'normal' kinda stuff but the suits don't do it for me. And yes, I've already checked them again in Dolby Vision and they still look weird to my eyes. They may even be plenty bright in HDR (awaits Deci to measure their nit values ) but by bringing back all that highlight detail they just don't zing off the screen like I want them to, they look more 'normal' and I don't want 'normal', I want them to blaze like they do in SDR! The skin tones in the Council scene look super-off as well, really dull and flat, almost like their heads have been pasted on. It's hard to describe.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Lol not backhanded at all. I just didn’t want to use Geoffy Vision and have to pay royalties. I needs my money for all these releases.

Yeah I noticed the drained skin tones in that scene. I probably wouldn’t have unless you pointed it out though. I was expecting to see what you saw with the suits but they actually looked very bright on my panel. As far as the weird mattes is concerned it could be your Z9 revealing more darker detail than the average set. Good sets are similar to bright speakers. Give it good source material and they shine, play something edgy or forward and they reveal things you didn’t want it to. I think that’s what we are getting with HDR and why reviews are all over the place.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

They could only fix it (if they wanted to that is) if the original SFX plates and original model shots were still available and in good shape to do a digital composite to replace the optical track mattes that contained sometimes visible garbage mattes.

You can also lessen the contrast. Garbage mattes are usually only seen on video because of the heightened contrast.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by 5x10

I also noticed a black box following baby supes space ship, whole flying in space
Figured they could have eliminated that in this version, but I’m just being picky here

I'm not the only one who sees the travelling mattes! Hallelujah, thank you Lord!

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

They could only fix it (if they wanted to that is) if the original SFX plates and original model shots were still available and in good shape to do a digital composite to replace the optical track mattes that contained sometimes visible garbage mattes.

In Supes' case they weren't visible on any other prior version that I have to hand (I should really check the old SE DVD while I'm at it) so it's not something you have to 'fix' as long as it's being transferred/mastered properly to begin with.

The problem is one of gamma; this kind of VFX was designed to ultimately be projected on a film print with its inherent high gamma (necessary to maintain black levels because it's having a ****ton of light being blasted through it onto a reflective screen) so as long as the source comes out of black very slowly then these effects will be virtually invisible. But the quicker it comes out of black, i.e. the lighter the blacks are, then these artefacts can get shown up quite badly and I don't mind saying that I found it to be another niggling distraction with the Supes UHD, as they've definitely lowered the gamma versus previous transfers but don't seem to have given a thought as to how it might affect certain parts of the film. (One thing I loved about watching 4K77, the fan restoration of Star Wars in 4K from an original IB Tech print, is that the mattes were indeed invisible owing to the print's high gamma.)

[Croweyes1121]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

even a sort of yellowy tinge to their skin that I can't help but find distracting.

I do agree with this. The skin tones *are* a bit too much on the yellow side IMO. The worst part is, DV doesn’t allow changing the tint even if I wanted to. LOL

[y2jman]

i'm extremely nervous folks do you think tomorrow this will be shipped from best buy and I will get it on Friday or is it going to be delayed or cancel its still in the preparing stage yes I know its out of stock online so I cannot just cancel reorder it

if I knew this was going to happen I would had never try to pre order on website past sat night meh

[RodChester]

Originally Posted by y2jman

i'm extremely nervous folks do you think tomorrow this will be shipped from best buy and I will get it on Friday or is it going to be delayed or cancel its still in the preparing stage yes I know its out of stock online so I cannot just cancel reorder it

if I knew this was going to happen I would had never try to pre order on website past sat night meh

Just order from Amazon. It’s cheaper than Best Buy and they have it in stock.

[Jay Mammoth]

Originally Posted by RodChester

Just order from Amazon. It’s cheaper than Best Buy and they have it in stock.

Probably wouldn’t ship it out for a week though.

[5x10]

Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth

Probably wouldn’t ship it out for a week though.

I got mine next day with no delays

[y2jman]

thing is I had used best buy 25 gift card towards the movies get price down I guess i'll wait if it actually get shipped either sometime end of the night or tomorrow good if not I will call them back sat afternoon figure out what to do by then

[RodChester]

Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth

Probably wouldn’t ship it out for a week though.

If you’re anti Prime maybe.

[Jay Mammoth]

Originally Posted by RodChester

If you’re anti Prime maybe.

Anti Prime now, since when I was Prime I wouldn’t get any of my preorders on release day. Get them all up to 3 days after release date, so yeah Best Buy and Bullmoose only from now on for me. Funny enough the last order I placed as a prime member was for Batman the Animated Series miraculously it arrived on release date but of course in their horrible paper thin plastic envelopes and of course the box was all banged up.