Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[omgitsgodzilla]

I wonder if it's a case of the English version being deliberately edited or just stuff missing from the print due to damage. 15 minutes is a lot. In the former case I'd say it would've been good to have the English version recreated from the new scan without the Italian passages. In the latter, I guess I just hope those passages are translated.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

There's always something to complain about. Earlier it was that a movie had missing scenes. Now it's that a movie is complete but doesn't have the wanted dialect. There is no way to please everyone.

This is why disclaimers are needed. If people are hit head on with inherent imperfections after they purchase a product without being warned, some bellyaching should be expected. If someone chooses to ignore the warnings or skip them, that's on them.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

And in the future if you are looking for perfection do not order titles like this. This movie there was barely any remnants of the ancient VHS release which was cut. Never had any kind of further home video release and the surviving film elements on this thing was like discovering a lost treasure. Everyone that loved SHADOW FIST HUNTER and DEADLY KUNG FU FACTOR will definitely love this one too. But you want perfect releases go buy the new studio crap or something like MIRROR MIRROR 4K release which is about the closest Dark Force will get to perfection. So now you are unstuck. We will refund you for The Golden Triangle. We don't want you to have to hear a couple lines of Italian and ruin the movie. lol

At the end of the stay you can sell whatever product you want. If the film has French audio for the entire film, that's fine, as long as you're TRANSPARENT about it. That's the key. Let people decide what they want to buy and let them vote with their wallet.

For me personally, not having the audio specs on the item description is a bit on the SHADY side as it make it seem like you may want to sucker a few people into getting a product they might not know that they are getting. Italian audio for 15 minutes in a HK film isn't exactly the norm.

Me personally, we live in an age where these HK films are getting uncut releases with the original audio, so I don't want a some sort of Frankenstein audio on the film. If I miss out on a pretty cool movie because of it, then so be it, but that's my preference, so in this case I lucked out by waiting and not pre-ordering. Others seem to not have been so lucky.

Again, good business practices are essential, and just make it clear from the get go what the consumer is getting. If people complain about the product, then that's fine, but at least you did right by them by being open about the product.

I noticed when the product first went up, the audio options were mentioned by others, but there were no responses from Dark Force. It took a couple of attempts to finally get a response about the audio, which for the most part, is not good.

[willo007]

Originally Posted by Bobo Justus

Keep the Mark L. Lester titles coming! I hope he can help you find elements for more of his post-Night of the Running Man output. You guys seem to get along well in the interview segments.

I needz these on BD asap:

[Thomas Veil]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

And in the future if you are looking for perfection do not order titles like this. This movie there was barely any remnants of the ancient VHS release which was cut. Never had any kind of further home video release and the surviving film elements on this thing was like discovering a lost treasure. Everyone that loved SHADOW FIST HUNTER and DEADLY KUNG FU FACTOR will definitely love this one too. But you want perfect releases go buy the new studio crap or something like MIRROR MIRROR 4K release which is about the closest Dark Force will get to perfection. So now you are unstuck. We will refund you for The Golden Triangle. We don't want you to have to hear a couple lines of Italian and ruin the movie. lol

Slow your roll and cool the roid rage there dave. I made a legitimate comment as a consumer that didn't deserve all that. I've bought a lot of stuff from you and will probably keep the order because the price isn't terrible but you really shouldn't question people who love film and just want to know what their freaking buying and like it as complete as possible. Now go pump some iron and relax.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Thomas Veil

Slow your roll and cool the roid rage there dave. I made a legitimate comment as a consumer that didn't deserve all that. I've bought a lot of stuff from you and will probably keep the order because the price isn't terrible but you really shouldn't question people who love film and just want to know what their freaking buying and like it as complete as possible. Now go pump some iron and relax.

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

I wonder if it's a case of the English version being deliberately edited or just stuff missing from the print due to damage. 15 minutes is a lot. In the former case I'd say it would've been good to have the English version recreated from the new scan without the Italian passages. In the latter, I guess I just hope those passages are translated.

Nope you have it all wrong and this thing got blown way out of proportion which is why I am upset about it. So let me clarify. There was ZERO available on this extremely cool and unusual Hong kong 70's action movie. The only home video release was an ancient VHS release that was under 90 minutes. Until recently Dark Force discovered, much like a lost treasure, a 35mm print in very good condition thankfully but it was an Italian release with Italian audio. Of course, not wanting to miss out on this rare gem we quickly grabbed it and created a very nice hi-def master. The only issue was the english audio which was short but I think it was more like around 10 minutes of cut scenes that our print had. So we opted to just switch back to the audio on the print for the missing segments but the only dialogue within that which is Italian is only 6 LINES AND UNDER 1 MINUTE IN DURATION at approximately the 22:30 minute mark of a 95 MINUTE MOVIE!! So that's what all this fuss is about because someone asked on FACEBOOK what the audio options were. We were very lucky to get any audio with this rarity. And its not some crap martial arts movie. This thing is amazing, shot great with war scenes and everything. These kind of releases of this rarity should be expected not to be perfect and very lucky to be uncovered period.

[darkonex]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

Nope you have it all wrong and this thing got blown way out of proportion which is why I am upset about it. So let me clarify. There was ZERO available on this extremely cool and unusual Hong kong 70's action movie. The only home video release was an ancient VHS release that was under 90 minutes. Until recently Dark Force discovered, much like a lost treasure, a 35mm print in very good condition thankfully but it was an Italian release with Italian audio. Of course, not wanting to miss out on this rare gem we quickly grabbed it and created a very nice hi-def master. The only issue was the english audio which was short but I think it was more like around 10 minutes of cut scenes that our print had. So we opted to just switch back to the audio on the print for the missing segments but the only dialogue within that which is Italian is only 6 LINES AND UNDER 1 MINUTE IN DURATION at approximately the 22:30 minute mark of a 95 MINUTE MOVIE!! So that's what all this fuss is about because someone asked on FACEBOOK what the audio options were. We were very lucky to get any audio with this rarity. And its not some crap martial arts movie. This thing is amazing, shot great with war scenes and everything. These kind of releases of this rarity should be expected not to be perfect and very lucky to be uncovered period.

Definitely just make sure stuff like that is known when being put up for preorder. I personally see nothing wrong with your thinking, I've got other films from other labels that put out things with mixed audio just so that it's as complete as possible with the elements they have. I know personally I'd much rather see you release it like you have stated then to just ignore it and let it die on VHS or whatever. Keep your chin up, you all do great work!

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by Thomas Veil

Slow your roll and cool the roid rage there dave. I made a legitimate comment as a consumer that didn't deserve all that. I've bought a lot of stuff from you and will probably keep the order because the price isn't terrible but you really shouldn't question people who love film and just want to know what their freaking buying and like it as complete as possible. Now go pump some iron and relax.

I've had a lot to be riled up about these days Thomas, trust me. I am not denying your rights as a consumer but on sites like this you have to be very careful what you post. Little things with lack of real information can tend to get blown way out of proportion and I have enough headaches with many of these very challenging releases. This is what used to drive poor Banana Man insane and led to many releases being pulled. As stated previously we release many very old and rare movies with many challenging circumstances. Most people that buy and collect these releases understand that they will never be perfect like new movie releases. And quite frankly likely wouldn't want them to be either because they would not be what they are. Where I do agree certain disclaimers should be made regarding significant imperfections, in this case the issue is so insignificant I felt it wasn't even worth drawing attention to it. I can assure you fans are going to really like this movie and will be grateful it even got a release finally.

[CrowKiller]

Someone needs to release Black and White Swordsman (1971) and that's the only martial arts movie I'll ask for. Anything would look better than what's out there now.

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Here's pictures of my original Ocean Shores box. The tape is on a T-105 and the box says "ALL OCEAN SHORES FEATURE MOVIES ARE ORIGINAL UNCUT VERSIONS. English Version. Exclusive World Videorights. I think your version may be cut, or not an uncut English version.

THE ENGLISH VERSION AUDIO USED ON PRIOR PREHISTORIC VHS RELEASE WAS SHORTER THAN OUR 35MM FILM VERSION BY APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES OR MORE! So how do we have a cut version? Maybe you can dig up Ocean Shores from their grave and ask but I don't get it. But I am starting to think maybe you guys want us to pull this movie so we don't have to keep going on about this issue. I don't have a problem with doing that. Bit of a shame because it is really cool for one of these types of movies.

[DaveyJoe]

Who needs original audio when you have Savage Tracks?

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Picture of the back cover.

This is the incorrect film. This is the OTHER Golden Triangle film from 1975. Not the one Dark Force is releasing.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2096636/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187075/

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

Nope you have it all wrong and this thing got blown way out of proportion which is why I am upset about it. So let me clarify. There was ZERO available on this extremely cool and unusual Hong kong 70's action movie. The only home video release was an ancient VHS release that was under 90 minutes. Until recently Dark Force discovered, much like a lost treasure, a 35mm print in very good condition thankfully but it was an Italian release with Italian audio. Of course, not wanting to miss out on this rare gem we quickly grabbed it and created a very nice hi-def master. The only issue was the english audio which was short but I think it was more like around 10 minutes of cut scenes that our print had. So we opted to just switch back to the audio on the print for the missing segments but the only dialogue within that which is Italian is only 6 LINES AND UNDER 1 MINUTE IN DURATION at approximately the 22:30 minute mark of a 95 MINUTE MOVIE!! So that's what all this fuss is about because someone asked on FACEBOOK what the audio options were. We were very lucky to get any audio with this rarity. And its not some crap martial arts movie. This thing is amazing, shot great with war scenes and everything. These kind of releases of this rarity should be expected not to be perfect and very lucky to be uncovered period.

I think I phrased that poorly -- I'm all for having the film uncut/as complete as possible regardless, but if the English version on the VHS had been an intentionally edited version, it would've been neat to have that version as an alternate option for the sake of consistency. That was my thinking based on the FB exchange, which is where I got 15 minutes. It sounds like not much of what was missing was dialogue, though, so that's not as big an issue as it initially seemed.

For the record, that wouldn't have been a dealbreaker for me anyway -- I get that this stuff is rare and it is cool that it's being released at all. Obviously the state of the available materials isn't your fault, and I think most of us are willing to accept these types of compromises in the presentation if that's the best that can be done with what you're working with. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say they'd rather know about it up front, though.

Looking forward to the release regardless!

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

This is the incorrect film. This is the OTHER Golden Triangle film from 1975. Not the one Dark Force is releasing.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2096636/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187075/

So DF is releasing the TGT with Lo Lieh?????

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

So DF is releasing the TGT with Lo Lieh?????

Correct. The one you're talking about is with Yasuaki Kurata.

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

THE ENGLISH VERSION AUDIO USED ON PRIOR PREHISTORIC VHS RELEASE WAS SHORTER THAN OUR 35MM FILM VERSION BY APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES OR MORE! So how do we have a cut version? Maybe you can dig up Ocean Shores from their grave and ask but I don't get it. But I am starting to think maybe you guys want us to pull this movie so we don't have to keep going on about this issue. I don't have a problem with doing that. Bit of a shame because it is really cool for one of these types of movies.

Demon Dave, I just found out you're releasing The Golden Triangle with LO LIEH, not the one with SHOJI KURATA. Both films are HK films from 1975 with the same title.
Sorry about my mistake! I have no idea about your version.

[nin74]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

So just saw on FB that the upcoming release of The Golden Triangle will not have the original audio, but a mix of English and Italian audio and currently unknown if the Italian audio will be subtitled. I can sometimes watch a HK film in English, but Italian seems too far gone for me. So in regard to this release, I'm out.

I did dug out my swedish betamax release to see what dubbing the movie had. Sorry to say it is the english dub. But it say 100 minute. I don't know if that is correct or even the PAL time (100 minute PAL is around 104 minute film 24fps).

EDIT: the uk Cinehollywood release are 90 minute and 26 second PAL so probably the same for my tape (so around 95 minute 24fps).

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

This is the incorrect film. This is the OTHER Golden Triangle film from 1975. Not the one Dark Force is releasing.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2096636/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187075/

Thank you very much Duke. I should have realized this is what added to the confusion. There are 2 Golden Triangle movies and you are correct.

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Demon Dave, I just found out you're releasing The Golden Triangle with LO LIEH, not the one with SHOJI KURATA. Both films are HK films from 1975 with the same title.
Sorry about my mistake! I have no idea about your version.

No worries cloudnine. YES this is the bad ass version with LO LIEH. Very lucky to get our hands on it. It definitely delivers.