As an Amazon associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Thanks for your support!                               
×

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals


Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
The Mask 4K (Blu-ray)
$35.00
7 hrs ago
Outland 4K (Blu-ray)
$31.32
4 hrs ago
Dogtooth 4K (Blu-ray)
$22.49
13 hrs ago
Hard Boiled 4K (Blu-ray)
$49.99
 
In the Mouth of Madness 4K (Blu-ray)
$36.69
 
Spawn 4K (Blu-ray)
$31.99
 
Casino 4K (Blu-ray)
$29.99
 
Creepshow: Complete Series - Seasons 1-4 (Blu-ray)
$68.47
1 day ago
Gary Cooper 4-Film Collection (Blu-ray)
$26.49
1 hr ago
The Sound of Music 4K (Blu-ray)
$37.99
 
Peanuts: Ultimate TV Specials Collection (Blu-ray)
$72.99
 
A Nightmare on Elm Street Collection 4K (Blu-ray)
$96.99
 
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Blu-ray Movies - North America
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search


View Poll Results: How are you listening to T2 ROTF? Bitstream or PCM? None?
Bitstreaming 117 41.64%
PCM 140 49.82%
None of the above 24 8.54%
Voters: 281. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2009, 05:07 PM   #141
ckyllr ckyllr is offline
Senior Member
 
Oct 2009
GA
67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post
Alright, so I tested the optical cable theory between the MA and the core (also tried setting the PS3 to bitstream instead of PCM)... I found the MA to be superior. There was not a drop in bass for me between the 2. I even had an SPL meter that I was measuring with.
Was this the Walmart/IMAX edition?

Last edited by ckyllr; 10-23-2009 at 05:09 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:25 PM   #142
progers13 progers13 is offline
Blu-ray Baron
 
progers13's Avatar
 
Aug 2009
Tampa, FL
83
337
3
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apophis906 View Post
I wanted to check something so I took the first 5 minutes of the IMAX version and decoded the core and then the whole lossless track. I first removed the dialog norm from the DTSMA track and then split out the core and decoded both of them to wav. In the image below the top line is the core's LFE track, the middle one is the DTSMA LFE track. I took the DTSMA LFE track and added 4dbs to it and that is the bottom one.
I found this to be interesting. Very interesting. Please elaborate. To my untrained eyes, it appears that the bottom track (which is DTS-HD MA with +4db added back in) is the same as the top track (the core track). Are you substantiating that this is, in fact, dialnorm and can be solved as simply as turning up the volume knob?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:37 PM   #143
Apophis906 Apophis906 is offline
Member
 
Aug 2008
620
2376
120
4
84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by progers13 View Post
I found this to be interesting. Very interesting. Please elaborate. To my untrained eyes, it appears that the bottom track (which is DTS-HD MA with +4db added back in) is the same as the top track (the core track). Are you substantiating that this is, in fact, dialnorm and can be solved as simply as turning up the volume knob?
The weird thing is that the middle one should look like the bottom one. The dialognorm was removed before any decoding was done. So even after that their was 4db still needed to be added back into the MA track to get equal to the core. This could be what some are hearing when they compare the core to the lossless track. I just think its odd that its 4db lower than the core is all. It also covers any wondering if it has an LFE at all, since this is the LFE track. Now this is just comparing the core to the lossless part of the IMAX version, I dont have the regular version to compare too. Maybe someone with both could do this and let us see.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:39 PM   #144
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by progers13 View Post
I found this to be interesting. Very interesting. Please elaborate. To my untrained eyes, it appears that the bottom track (which is DTS-HD MA with +4db added back in) is the same as the top track (the core track). Are you substantiating that this is, in fact, dialnorm and can be solved as simply as turning up the volume knob?
That is what that is saying, yes. It's also showing that there isn't a lack of bass in the MA track compared to the core like others are saying.

EDIT: Sorry, I read it wrong. I thought the middle one was without Dialnorm correction and the bottom one was after it had been corrected.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:41 PM   #145
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckyllr View Post
Was this the Walmart/IMAX edition?
Yes it was.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:45 PM   #146
EWL5 EWL5 is offline
Senior Member
 
EWL5's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post
Alright, so I tested the optical cable theory between the MA and the core (also tried setting the PS3 to bitstream instead of PCM)... I found the MA to be superior. There was not a drop in bass for me between the 2. I even had an SPL meter that I was measuring with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckyllr View Post
Was this the Walmart/IMAX edition?
This question is very important as only the IMAX edtion of ROTF is affected. The non-Imax Blu-ray is not affected by this audio discrepancy.

Also please note that the case for the Walmart BSE (Big Screen Edition/IMAX) exclusive is identical b/w the DVD and BD with the exception of the blue stripe up top for the BD.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:00 PM   #147
trans22 trans22 is offline
Active Member
 
trans22's Avatar
 
May 2009
united kingdom
6
87
9
United Kingdom

How on earth can BLU-RAY.COM give a 5 star rating for this movies audio when it has been excessively dial-normed and dialogue is too hard to hear, unbelievable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:03 PM   #148
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post
This question is very important as only the IMAX edtion of ROTF is affected. The non-Imax Blu-ray is not affected by this audio discrepancy.

Also please note that the case for the Walmart BSE (Big Screen Edition/IMAX) exclusive is identical b/w the DVD and BD with the exception of the blue stripe up top for the BD.
Don't worry, I don't think anyone here is testing out the DVD and confusing it for the Blu-ray.

After testing multiple scenes on the IMAX version for a second time... I get the same results when using an SPL meter. I do not have a lack of bass when switching between the MA or the core track. If anything, I have more bass with the MA.

I also basically did this blindly where I was switching between bitstream and PCM without knowing which one was which by simply holding the remote in my hand and hitting up/down and enter. But every time I noticed a sublte improvement, I would check and it would be the MA track being decoded.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #149
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trans22 View Post
How on earth can BLU-RAY.COM give a 5 star rating for this movies audio when it has been excessively dial-normed and dialogue is too hard to hear, unbelievable.
Because, for the millionth time, Dialnorm simply adjusts the volume of the track. It does not take anything away from the audio. A -4db difference is NOT "excessively dial-normed" either. It's actually on par with pretty much every other Paramount release.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:08 PM   #150
HDPlasma HDPlasma is offline
Expert Member
 
Oct 2007
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trans22 View Post
How on earth can BLU-RAY.COM give a 5 star rating for this movies audio when it has been excessively dial-normed and dialogue is too hard to hear, unbelievable.
Because they reviewed the Standard version, not the Imax version which has inconclusive reports on it's audio comparison to the standard, which most believe sounds better.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:20 PM   #151
BozQ BozQ is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
BozQ's Avatar
 
Jun 2007
Singapore
-
-
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trans22 View Post
How on earth can BLU-RAY.COM give a 5 star rating for this movies audio when it has been excessively dial-normed and dialogue is too hard to hear, unbelievable.
Dialnorm is nothing more than a volume adjustment. It is NOT applied to the actual soundtrack itself.

It's a small piece of data to tell your receiver to turn down the volume by -4db.
If you have a Blu-ray PC drive, you can manually strip away this small data and you will get the original and unaltered soundtrack. And for all we know, it could very well be the same as the regular BD.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:23 PM   #152
scubasteve2 scubasteve2 is offline
Member
 
Oct 2008
2
Default

I will attest and say the Regular BD sounds better than the IMAX BD.

I own both and tried out the opening sequences on each disc (Paramount title/Fallen and the "cavemen"/Shanghai scenes).

Regular version wins out strictly on an audio comparison.

Simply "turning up the volume" on the IMAX BD didn't cut it. There were still audio issues with the track itself. Although, it sounds great in my personal, home IMAX theater at my beach villa.

Last edited by scubasteve2; 10-23-2009 at 06:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:28 PM   #153
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPlasma View Post
Because they reviewed the Standard version, not the Imax version which has inconclusive reports on it's audio comparison to the standard, which most believe sounds better.
No, they reviewed both. In the IMAX version, they said they didn't adjust the volume for the IMAX version and said it sounds slightly weaker than the regular edition. Which makes absolute sense as they didn't adjust for dialnorm.

So how is it that people comparing both are saying "once you adjust for dialnorm, they sound identical" while others are claiming there's more to it than that and the regular version still sounds better?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:36 PM   #154
EWL5 EWL5 is offline
Senior Member
 
EWL5's Avatar
 
Oct 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve2 View Post
I will attest and say the Regular BD sounds better than the IMAX BD.

I own both and tried out the opening sequences on each disc (Paramount title/Fallen and the "cavemen"/Shanghai scenes).

Regular version wins out strictly on an audio comparison.

Simply "turning up the volume" on the IMAX BD didn't cut it. There were still audio issues with the track itself. Although, it sounds great in my personal, home IMAX theater at my beach villa.
At least I'm not going crazy by myself. I never felt the need to increase the volume as I felt the dialog was audible.

Does your IMAX theater require special decoders or do you have audio equipment comparable to consumer level AVR decoding?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 07:53 PM   #155
Apophis906 Apophis906 is offline
Member
 
Aug 2008
620
2376
120
4
84
Default

Ok let me try this again, as I found a mistake. It seems that eac3to was not taking the dialognorm out of the MA track really, just saying it had. I redid it again this time leaving dialognorm on for everything. In the image the top one is the core with dialognorm still in it, the middle one is the MA track with dialognorm still in it, and the last one is the MA track after it has had 4dbs added back to it. With the 4db from the dialognorm added back in, it hits its 0db mark. This shows that the core has no more LFE than the MA track does, you can also see the parts that were lost in the lossy core over the lossless MA track on the IMAX version.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 07:56 PM   #156
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
May 2006
New Brighton, MN
16
842
2381
2
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apophis906 View Post
Ok let me try this again, as I found a mistake. It seems that eac3to was not taking the dialognorm out of the MA track really, just saying it had. I redid it again this time leaving dialognorm on for everything. In the image the top one is the core with dialognorm still in it, the middle one is the MA track with dialognorm still in it, and the last one is the MA track after it has had 4dbs added back to it. With the 4db from the dialognorm added back in, it hits its 0db mark. This shows that the core has no more LFE than the MA track does, you can also see the parts that were lost in the lossy core over the lossless MA track on the IMAX version.
Which is in line with my findings as well. Thank you for posting this! It pretty much kills the theory that the lossy core has better bass than the lossless.

Now if someone would only compare the theatrical to the IMAX version all this back and forth could pretty much end (though I highly doubt it would, there would still be those claiming to hear a major difference).
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 07:58 PM   #157
Apophis906 Apophis906 is offline
Member
 
Aug 2008
620
2376
120
4
84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post
Which is in line with my findings as well. Thank you for posting this! It pretty much kills the theory that the lossy core has better bass than the lossless.

Now if someone would only compare the theatrical to the IMAX version all this back and forth could pretty much end (though I highly doubt it would, there would still be those claiming to hear a major difference).
Your welcome, just trying to get stuff straight around here.

Well I have it in my Netflix queue, but you know how that is with everyone wanting it and it being a new release.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #158
Jeff Kleist Jeff Kleist is offline
The Digital Bits
 
Jul 2008
1
Default

Quote:
I found this to be interesting. Very interesting. Please elaborate. To my untrained eyes, it appears that the bottom track (which is DTS-HD MA with +4db added back in) is the same as the top track (the core track). Are you substantiating that this is, in fact, dialnorm and can be solved as simply as turning up the volume knob?
Yes it can be solved by just turning the volume knob

Thanks for the output Apophis, maybe someone else who has the theatrical can do that one. It'd be good to do the forest, the steel factory opening and the ending, since those are the booming/most dynamic

The MA track absolutely has more bass to it, here I overlayed them, but replace color wasn't capturing the dithered bits, so here's animated GIF (have to download zip cause forum converts to jpg)
Attached Files
File Type: zip transformersanimated.zip (22.6 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by Jeff Kleist; 10-23-2009 at 08:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 08:10 PM   #159
progers13 progers13 is offline
Blu-ray Baron
 
progers13's Avatar
 
Aug 2009
Tampa, FL
83
337
3
2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apophis906 View Post
Ok let me try this again, as I found a mistake. It seems that eac3to was not taking the dialognorm out of the MA track really, just saying it had. I redid it again this time leaving dialognorm on for everything. In the image the top one is the core with dialognorm still in it, the middle one is the MA track with dialognorm still in it, and the last one is the MA track after it has had 4dbs added back to it. With the 4db from the dialognorm added back in, it hits its 0db mark. This shows that the core has no more LFE than the MA track does, you can also see the parts that were lost in the lossy core over the lossless MA track on the IMAX version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post
Which is in line with my findings as well. Thank you for posting this! It pretty much kills the theory that the lossy core has better bass than the lossless.

Now if someone would only compare the theatrical to the IMAX version all this back and forth could pretty much end (though I highly doubt it would, there would still be those claiming to hear a major difference).
Thanks guys. Very useful information here. To coin a phrase, the picture paints a thousand words!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 11:04 PM   #160
Todd Smith Todd Smith is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
Nov 2008
3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apophis906 View Post
Ok let me try this again, as I found a mistake. It seems that eac3to was not taking the dialognorm out of the MA track really, just saying it had. I redid it again this time leaving dialognorm on for everything. In the image the top one is the core with dialognorm still in it, the middle one is the MA track with dialognorm still in it, and the last one is the MA track after it has had 4dbs added back to it. With the 4db from the dialognorm added back in, it hits its 0db mark. This shows that the core has no more LFE than the MA track does, you can also see the parts that were lost in the lossy core over the lossless MA track on the IMAX version.


Could somebody PLEASE do a graph like this for the BSE vs the Standard version so we can verify one way or the other IF the audio tracks are the same or not after turning up the BSE 4db?


The problem is this review.......http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/?p=27195....... makes no sense IF the only dif between these 2 versions is a 4db decrease due to dialnorm. Once you turn up the BSE 4db the 2 tracks should be IDENTICAL, BUT highdefdiscnews is reporting a 8-10db dif still after all that which makes no fricken sense unless the 2 tracks are infact dif mixes. If somebody could do a graph like the one above for the BSE vs the regular version we could kill this confusion and solve this once and for all. At this point I am ready to take back my unopened BSE and grab the regular version as I am not convinced the ONLY dif is a 4db volume dif.........A comparison graph of a few dif scenes throughout the film could give us the answer to this and we can put this behind us.

Last edited by Todd Smith; 10-23-2009 at 11:13 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Blu-ray Movies - North America

Similar Threads
thread Forum Thread Starter Replies Last Post
Poll: Should Sony use DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD? Blu-ray Movies - North America Y3k Bug 1843 10-26-2009 02:36 AM
Should i get Transformers:ROTF? Movies JLant19 22 10-19-2009 04:25 AM
"Tiesto: Elements of Life" Copenhagen Audio Poll (and release info) Blu-ray Movies - International JadedRaverLA 96 09-09-2008 01:21 AM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:38 PM.