Fantastic Four (2015)

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

As a contrast, let me use a good comparison with a similar instance: casting Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin in "Daredevil". He did a fantastic job, and Mark Steven Johnson said they tested hundreds of Caucasian actors for the role, but none fit what they were trying to do in the story.

The film's version of the Kingpin has him starting out as an enforcer for a mob boss in 1980s New York City. Well, guess what: thirty years ago, most enforcers for ultra-rich crooked folks in the ghettos had dark skin. Pointing that out in reference to the film isn't racist, because there's no hate or ignorance involved.

Trank hasn't let one detail slip in terms of the story, that provides any sensible reason for giving Johnny Storm dark skin, not doing the same for Sue, and changing their relationship to that of adopted siblings. At the moment, the silence from all involved is the key factor in this; when more details emerge, I'll try my best to address them.

Making a hero black = politically correct. Making a gangster/villain black = a-okay. Am I oversimplifying that?

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Mandalorian

Making a hero black = politically correct. Making a gangster/villain black = a-okay. Am I oversimplifying that?

No, you're trying to bait me, and paint me as a racist when I'm not. I've already said I'd be fine with Johnny Storm's ethnic change, so long as they did the same thing with Sue. Pay attention, please.

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

No, you're trying to bait me, and paint me as a racist when I'm not. I've already said I'd be fine with Johnny Storm's ethnic change, so long as they did the same thing with Sue. Pay attention, please.

I don't have to bait you, or make you look like anything. Anyone spending as much time complaining about this subject as you guys have, when they have little to no details that haven't been hearsay or out-of-context info nuggets dropped in an interview here or there, has more issues than I'm qualified to address. I had a brief back and forth with Darkstream months ago, before deciding this thread was a waste of time and energy. This discussion has gone on with no progress long enough without my help. Listening to you guys discuss black people and their portrayals in media has just made me a tad uncomfortable.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Mandalorian

I don't have to bait you, or make you look like anything. Anyone spending as much time complaining about this subject as you guys have, when they have little to no details that haven't been heresay or out-of-context info nuggets dropped in an interview here or there, has more issues than I'm qualified to address. I had a brief back and forth with Darkstream months ago, before deciding this thread was a waste of time and energy. This discussion has gone on with no progress long enough without my help. Listening to you guys discuss black people and their portrayals in media has just made me a tad uncomfortable.

Well evidently, you don't think this thread is a complete waste of time, since you've had to read it to know what I and a few others in here have been discussing. If you're personally offended by anything I've said, I'm sorry you feel that way. PM me if you want, and we'll talk it over.

[assydingo]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Moviefan, that's what the argument about Michael B. Jordan is all about. If they want to cast Johnny Storm as an African American, then fine. But, if you're going to cast Johnny Storm as a black man, you need to cast his biological sister, Sue Storm, as a black woman as well. It doesn't make any sense to have the Storm siblings as members of opposing races. Sue Storm and Johnny Storm are not adopted siblings from different families, they are biological siblings.

I'll admit this does bug me. I'd much rather they were both black.

[Joeinar]

The casting of thus film is bizarre. However the casting of the first was bizarre.

Perhaps this film will succeed on some level, but I expect a new reboot within another 10 years.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Joeinar

The casting of thus film is bizarre. However the casting of the first was bizarre.

Perhaps this film will succeed on some level, but I expect a new reboot within another 10 years.

At least Tim Story got Johnny and Ben right, in both appearance and attitude. That's light years ahead of Trank and Fox's crap. I'd love this film to flop miserably, Marvel gets the rights back for cheap, and unleashes an accurate version of the team for...you guessed it...Phase 4.

[vega2K]

I am just so glad they didn't go the Jessica Alba route and make Michael B. Jordan caucasian with a blonde wig and contacts!!!!
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413250335.793005.jpg

[Clark Kent]

I have no idea how anyone at Fox thought Jessica Alba was a good fit for Sue Storm. There are literally tens of thousands of blond actresses in Hollywood and they cast a brunette in her role. I think casting Christopher Evans as Johnny was more luck than anything else in that case.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by assydingo

I'll admit this does bug me. I'd much rather they were both black.

One of them is going to be adopted. I don't see why that is bothersome at all. Creepy racial ideas going on in this thread. America is a melting pot, yo.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I have no idea how anyone at Fox thought Jessica Alba was a good fit for Sue Storm. There are literally tens of thousands of blond actresses in Hollywood and they cast a brunette in her role. I think casting Christopher Evans as Johnny was more luck than anything else in that case.

Well, he did a brilliant job with the role, to the point I was very skeptical when he got Captain America. He's even better with that character, which makes my "inner geek" very happy.

As for Sue, I wanted Diane Kruger cast for the longest time, but she's almost too old now. Teresa Palmer would be an interesting choice, but either way, it'll be a few years before another one gets made.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

One of them is going to be adopted. I don't see why that is bothersome at all. Creepy racial ideas going on in this thread. America is a melting pot, yo.

Everyone has ethnic concerns to some extent, but that doesn't make them a racist. That word has become so diluted nowadays, resulting in all sorts of confusion. My main point of contention is a combo of all the changes being made at once, and no one involved with the film explaining the reasons for them to the fans.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Everyone has ethnic concerns to some extent, but that doesn't make them a racist. That word has become so diluted nowadays, resulting in all sorts of confusion. My main point of contention is a combo of all the changes being made at once, and no one involved with the film explaining the reasons for them to the fans.

I said racial comments, not racist. Anyway, they haven't even started advertising this movie yet, it's very early. I am sure later on they will make statements about the kind of movie and adaptation they are making.

I don't think hiring a Black guy for a role really needs an "explanation" though. Diversity is good.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I said racial comments, not racist. Anyway, they haven't even started advertising this movie yet, it's very early. I am sure later on they will make statements about the kind of movie and adaptation they are making.

They'll probably try to gloss over it as a non-issue.

I don't think hiring a Black guy for a role really needs an "explanation" though. Diversity is good.

A role that's been consistently depicted - in film, TV, and comics - as white for over 50 years? You and I both know that if it were the other way around, groups like the NAACP would be pitching a fit. Why can't non-blacks have a valid concern in a similar situation?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

A role that's been consistently depicted - in film, TV, and comics - as white for over 50 years? You and I both know that if it were the other way around, groups like the NAACP would be pitching a fit. Why can't non-blacks have a valid concern in a similar situation?

If you want an honest answer... because the situations are entirely different. Black men were enslaved, then legally marginalized, then socially marginalized for centuries. You can't just say "you're free and equal now!" and walk away as if it's all good. There needs to be a catch-up process. This goes for society as well, not just culture. We've failed there in my opinion, but lots of attempts were made like affirmative action.

In culture though, as I said a couple pages ago, it's hard to make a new massively iconic American legend out of nothing. That's a difficult job. So it makes sense to bring some diversity to existing ones. Also when you have a classic tale filled with an all-white cast, like this one, it no longer really seems current or reflective of America today. It makes sense, and is a good idea, to bring some diversity into it.

Now there is a common sense limit. If something is set in the past for example, it should reflect the racial diversity and situations of that time, not today (Doctor Who messes this up a lot). Also if the show/movie/book is in the same continuity then you shouldn't just randomly change a character's race out of nowhere, that's lame (Doctor Who is threatening to mess this up a lot).

This is a new adaptation though, set in modern times. Diversity is good for it. Reaction to that should never be fear. Diversity is a beautiful thing, and America was built to be diverse. It's all good.

[kemcha]

Michael Clarke Duncan and Samuel Jackson weren't considered controversial because they are well established A-List actors, Michael B. Jordan isn't. The other thing is that Nick Fury and Kingpin, while they are popular characters in the Marvel Universe, don't hold places like the prime superheroes that the Fantastic Four are.

The Storm siblings aren't twins, but they are biological siblings, brother and sister, they were never adopted, and they have been that way since they were introduced in the 1960's. While I was hesitant at first over Johnny Storm's casting, the more I read other online articles about it and the arguments regarding the casting choices, the more I started agreeing with the writers of these articles.

Fox is taking a big risk here by alienating the comic fans who would likely support a new Fantastic Four movie but I think that while the film might make back its budget, it just might tank here in the United States.

[CrazyHorse42]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Michael Clarke Duncan and Samuel Jackson weren't considered controversial because they are well established A-List actors, Michael B. Jordan isn't. The other thing is that Nick Fury and Kingpin, while they are popular characters in the Marvel Universe, don't hold places like the prime superheroes that the Fantastic Four are.

In the case of Nick Fury, you're forgetting that he is a black man in the 'ultimate' universe (I believe the artist actually based his look on Sam Jackson too) so that isn't quite the same as changing Johnny Storm's racial background.

[mrr1]

Casting questions aren't racist. It is just weird to cast someone a different color, as it would be to cast someone who is the opposite sex, a dwarf, a child, or an elderly person when the character is a young white male.

What's the point?

[mrr1]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Diversity is a beautiful thing, and America was built to be diverse. It's all good.

How come "diverse" always means people with a non-white skin color? I always thought that's kind of racist thing to believe.

Why aren't people with Canadian, Irish, English, German, Greek, French, or Dutch backgrounds considered "diverse"?

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by mrr1

How come "diverse" always means people with a non-white skin color? I always thought that's kind of racist thing to believe.

Why aren't people with Canadian, Irish, English, German, Greek, French, or Dutch backgrounds considered "diverse"?

Uh, simple, because whites are the majority, regardless of nationality. Kinda like how movies with predominantly white casts are called movies, then movies with predominantly non-white casts are called "[insert race here] movies", i.e. "black movies".