Gamera: The Complete Collection (1965-2006)

[Zillamon51]

Originally Posted by Mikezilla3k

Or do seamless branching with the different cuts.

Why bother? Who wants to watch the movie(s) with scenes missing?

[Nailwraps]

I would go with seamless branching over the idea of undubbed portions in Japanese with English subtitles for the AIP dubs. The only thing is, can a disc holding 2 movies and extras handle it?

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

I believe that the only changes for GUIRON involved the removal of some cartoonish gory monster-slicing bits, yes? Should be no problem to synch the AIP dub, it was done just fine for the Shout Factory DVD.

The problem is portions of the Sandy Frank dub had to be used because of that, but I admit it was a clever choice.

Now when Neptune release the uncut version on VHS with the AIP dub, they did their own clever approach by reusing reaction shots of the boys as opposed to the scenes when they were talking which weren't dub for the AIP cut (go to 2:53):

Guiron vs. Space Gyaos Comparison - YouTube

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

Why bother? Who wants to watch the movie(s) with scenes missing?

The shorter cuts are part of these films' history in this part of the world, and it's interesting to see differing versions of a film preserved and kept available. You might as well ask the same thing about any release of the Japanese version of Gappa, seeing as it's missing several minutes of special-effects footage found in the international version.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm still on the fence about this box set.

I never really had any emotional connection to the Gamera movies, and I'm not all that familiar with them.

I might save some money and just revisit the Criterion Godzilla set whenever I'm in the mood for monster mayhem. I'm prone to impulsive purchasing decisions, though, so anything can happen.

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

I didn't know you needed to have some emotional connection to enjoy a film. I mean, I've been watching old movies all of the time for the first time and have never needed to have seen them as a kid to love them and I'm 37. Hell, a few year's ago I watched a film called Double Indemnity for the first time and now it may very well be my favorite movie of all time.

Hell, there are even movies I hated when I was younger that I am watching now and am just now noticing their brilliance.

Originally Posted by chriszilla

To enjoy a film, no. But to plunk down $100-150 dollars on a set of films that you fear you may watch only once is a different matter. I think that's what he was driving at. That's why a few of us attempted to give him some idea of what he might be getting into.

I’ve seen a couple of Gamera movies from years ago on cable television, but am not sure which era they were from. They were fun enough, but didn’t hugely quicken my pulse.

My purchasing decisions are largely driven by gut feelings, depending on my tastes. I pre-ordered the $170 Al Adamson box set from Severin last week without hesitation, but am holding off on the Gamera set simply because it doesn’t quite generate the same excitement in me. That can likely change, though, because this Arrow set appears to be a great buy for the price if one plans on revisiting the films.

[Zillamon51]

Originally Posted by Nailwraps

[Show spoiler]I would go with seamless branching over the idea of undubbed portions in Japanese with English subtitles for the AIP dubs. The only thing is, can a disc holding 2 movies and extras handle it?

The problem is portions of the Sandy Frank dub had to be used because of that, but I admit it was a clever choice.

Now when Neptune release the uncut version on VHS with the AIP dub, they did their own clever approach by reusing reaction shots of the boys as opposed to the scenes when they were talking which weren't dub for the AIP cut (go to 2:53):

Guiron vs. Space Gyaos Comparison - YouTube

Old TV cuts are not true "alternate versions" like Gammera: The Invincible. They're just edited for time and content. Arrow shouldn't waste time preserving something so worthless.

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

[Show spoiler]The shorter cuts are part of these films' history in this part of the world, and it's interesting to see differing versions of a film preserved and kept available. You might as well ask the same thing about any release of the Japanese version of Gappa, seeing as it's missing several minutes of special-effects footage found in the international version.

If you're watching in a hurry or something, you have a fast-forward button. Seriously, they're something only a small percentage of viewers would watch once. Guiron slicing up Gyaos is a highlight of the movie.

I'm not familiar with the history of Gappa. But of course the original theatrical version of the film, from its country of origin, is significant. And if the U.S. version has more footage, then comparing it to the AIP Gameras is comparing apples to, uh, apples with bites taken out.

[Nailwraps]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

Old TV cuts are not true "alternate versions" like Gammera: The Invincible. They're just edited for time and content. Arrow shouldn't waste time preserving something so worthless.

Just for the sake of viewing the film with the AIP dub without the hassle of switching to a different language/dub for the Japanese versions.


If it's anything, the AIP versions do serve an integral part of Gamera's appeal in the US.

[MattmanAlpha]

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

The shorter cuts are part of these films' history in this part of the world, and it's interesting to see differing versions of a film preserved and kept available. You might as well ask the same thing about any release of the Japanese version of Gappa, seeing as it's missing several minutes of special-effects footage found in the international version.

Also, reverting from dub-to-sub can be quite jarring and takes one out of the experience. It pretty much negates the point of even including a dub track.

[WaverBoy]

Originally Posted by MattmanAlpha

Also, reverting from dub-to-sub can be quite jarring and takes one out of the experience. It pretty much negates the point of even including a dub track.

Negates the point of even including a dub? That’s pretty over-the-top; in the case of GAMERA VS GUIRON, for instance, I’m totally fine with just including the AIP dub on the uncut Japanese version and reverting to the Sandy Frank dub for the necessary bits, because I want the complete film with all gory bits intact. AIP dubs for the rest of the films synch up easily except for GAMERA VS BARUGON; such major alterations were made to the film that it would be impossible to synch up the AIP dub to the uncut version and have it make sense. It would have to be re-edited from scratch, so if Arrow is ok with going to the trouble to reconstruct that one, that would be super cool; otherwise just give me the Sandy Frank dub as an option for the uncut BARUGON and throw on the AIP TV credits for all the films as extras.

[darkness2918]

Even if the set only has the Japanese versions I’d be happy since that’s all I’d watch anyway.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

Old TV cuts are not true "alternate versions" like Gammera: The Invincible. They're just edited for time and content. Arrow shouldn't waste time preserving something so worthless.

If you're watching in a hurry or something, you have a fast-forward button. Seriously, they're something only a small percentage of viewers would watch once. Guiron slicing up Gyaos is a highlight of the movie.

I'm not familiar with the history of Gappa. But of course the original theatrical version of the film, from its country of origin, is significant. And if the U.S. version has more footage, then comparing it to the AIP Gameras is comparing apples to, uh, apples with bites taken out.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Those are the versions that were originally released in the US, which makes them significant regardless of their worthlessness.

I see no reason to entertain the question of whether they're true alternate versions -- they are incarnations of the film that differ from the original, and were the de facto official versions here in the US for years. "Cut for time" or not, the cuts were part of the preparation of the film for its original US release. That release being on television means nothing.

You don't have to care about these versions yourself, but that's no reason to argue against their inclusion, unless you truly feel that their inclusion means this set somehow fails to be a comprehensive, definitive presentation of the films contained in it, in which case...

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

I don't know what to tell you, man. Those are the versions that were originally released in the US, which makes them significant regardless of their worthlessness.

I see no reason to entertain the question of whether they're true alternate versions -- they are incarnations of the film that differ from the original, and were the de facto official versions here in the US for years. "Cut for time" or not, the cuts were part of the preparation of the film for its original US release. That release being on television means nothing.

You don't have to care about these versions yourself, but that's no reason to argue against their inclusion, unless you truly feel that their inclusion means this set somehow fails to be a comprehensive, definitive presentation of the films contained in it, in which case...

by the same token though adding those versions won't add much either. aside from the first film these are just tv cuts. they won't be widescreen and decent elements don't seem to be available. a special feature with the titles from the AIP versions would be cool to have but aside from that the cut versions do little to add to the set.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

by the same token though adding those versions won't add much either. aside from the first film these are just tv cuts. they won't be widescreen and decent elements don't seem to be available. a special feature with the titles from the AIP versions would be cool to have but aside from that the cut versions do little to add to the set.

You mean aside from entire unique dub tracks, including some by Titra/Titan, who are generally regarded as the best in the business at that time?

Also,

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

they won't be widescreen and decent elements don't seem to be available.

The first point is dubious -- most likely the soundtracks would be synchronized to the widescreen transfers of the Japanese versions, with major editing differences handled via branching -- and the second is categorically false. MGM has the AI-TV elements.

[Mikezilla3k]

I wonder if they'll include the UK dub for Guardian Of The Universe with the synth score.

[Martin_31]

How limited is this set?

[Chorake]

To all you contrarian stick-in-the-muds, I say pooey! Pooey!

Why does a company like Shout Factory get to include the absolutely butchered TV version of John Carpenter's The Thing as a bonus, but as soon as we start talking about U.S. versions of Japanese or other foreign films with a greater integrity than that aforementioned abomination, it's all cold, blue balling spiel from you jerks?

[dickdarlington]

Originally Posted by Martin_31

How limited is this set?

Limited as in Arrow will put out a new SKU without the collectable packaging alongside the possibility of discs from the original release missing.

[Kaiju no Kami]

Originally Posted by Martin_31

How limited is this set?

I doubt it will be limited at all for a while. Their Ring set came out last year and is still readily available.

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by omgitsgodzilla

You mean aside from entire unique dub tracks, including some by Titra/Titan, who are generally regarded as the best in the business at that time?

Also,



The first point is dubious -- most likely the soundtracks would be synchronized to the widescreen transfers of the Japanese versions, with major editing differences handled via branching -- and the second is categorically false. MGM has the AI-TV elements.

your first point would mean that it wasn't the AIP version just an edited version of what you have. not the same. and as for your second point i said they don't seem to be available. no one has released a clean print from MGM that i know of.

[omgitsgodzilla]

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

your first point would mean that it wasn't the AIP version just an edited version of what you have. not the same. and as for your second point i said they don't seem to be available. no one has released a clean print from MGM that i know of.

I'll grant you the first point to some degree -- from a purist standpoint, that's not really how those cuts were seen -- but it's a compromise I don't exactly mind. If you present the dub and conform the film to the edit that went with the dub, I won't really sweat the fact that it's not a new transfer from a pan-and-scanned 16mm copy.

I also wouldn't take previous releases as indication of what's available without anything to corroborate it, especially when those releases consist of 50-movie value packs, DVD-only releases from a decade ago that started off by passing up even uncut dubs that were readily available and got even lower-effort from there, and bare-bones partial HD reissues of that same material by the company behind the value packs. It's true that none of those releases tapped MGM's resources, but it's clear they also weren't interested in spending the time and money to produce something to Arrow's standards.

There's also the fact that the AI-TV elements held by MGM were used to create the current widescreen transfer of Yongary. By all accounts it doesn't appear that MGM is keeping a tight lid on its archive materials; it's just that past releases were either content to disregard dubbed versions altogether in favor of a handful of extras, then later ditch those for dubs taken from existing video sources, or they were made from whatever Mill Creek happened to have handy.

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

by the same token though adding those versions won't add much either.

They're the main reason I'm interested in this set. I grew up watching the Gamera movies and no, I admit I don't have a lot of "love" for them. Still I'd pick this up for the older films IF they have the dubbing I remember, in the versions I saw on TV, mostly so I can share them with my Pre-K son, who loves the Showa Godzilla films but can't read subtitles yet. I had the Mill Creek discs but the lack of English dubbing renders them useless -- for my purposes.

I mean, I understand if you're not interested in watching them -- but complaining that they're included or being as dismissive as you are about them being present is downright odd. I'm sure I'm not going to be alone in saying their inclusion is either a nice bonus, or actually a selling point altogether, for some prospective buyers.