Blu-ray vs. Laserdisc DTS (Yes... Laserdisc)

[oldgame]

Originally Posted by Last Starfighter

Yah, LDs blew me away when i saw them at my friends place for the 1st time, even my VHS dubs of LD movies looked great. Anyways, i think they didn't take off cause movies were $50+ per disc, am i in the right range?

The main reason I always heard was because you couldn't record from them like VHS.

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by oldgame

The main reason I always heard was because you couldn't record from them like VHS.

Not being able to record with them was always a drawback, along with having to flip sides.

Laserdiscs are primitive in some ways to today's tech, but advanced in other ways. You could pull up a certain frame and display it as a still, or a scene by entering the time.

Quality is also dependent on how good the player is to a greater extent than DVD or Blu ray. The quality of the discs also varies greatly.

The best discs , in good condition, played on a good player can have a more pleasing look than some DVDs. Less harsh is how I would describe it. Colors more subtle.

I have music laserdiscs which I still enjoy because the sound quality is superior to the DVD versions, and there are music laserdiscs never released on DVD, let alone Blu ray.

If you like 80's music, a laserdisc player is a good investment due to all the material only on that format.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Last Starfighter

Yah, LDs blew me away when i saw them at my friends place for the 1st time, even my VHS dubs of LD movies looked great. Anyways, i think they didn't take off cause movies were $50+ per disc, am i in the right range?

When I started collecting (1991) new releases were $24.95-$29.95 for a single disc and $29.95-$34.95 for a double disc. By the time I stopped in favor of DVD they had risen to $34.95 for a single disc.

Originally Posted by oldgame

The main reason I always heard was because you couldn't record from them like VHS.

Until the 90s you couldn't record on CDs either (and DVD recorders never really took off either), and I doubt people were taping over the pre-recorded cassettes they bought by the millions. Part of it was the format war with CED, other was the expense of an LD player, other was how people perceived the benefits of the greater A/V quality, etc.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Cbeck

...

Quality is also dependent on how good the player is to a greater extent than DVD or Blu ray. The quality of the discs also varies greatly.

True. Which is why I tend to only collect late Japanese releases.

Originally Posted by Cbeck

...The best discs , in good condition, played on a good player can have a more pleasing look than some DVDs. Less harsh is how I would describe it. Colors more subtle.

I'd describe it as looking more filmlike.

Originally Posted by Cbeck

...If you like 80's music, a laserdisc player is a good investment due to all the material only on that format.

I have a prized collection that I regularly spin up. Takes me down memory lane - and they never made it to DVD.

[oldgame]

I have over 200 laserdiscs and I still enjoy them. Also I use DTS NEO:X and it makes them sound incredible. Especially the original Star Wars trilogy.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

I'd describe it as looking more filmlike.

Filmlike?


Film doesn't have color noise and other LD artifacts. Not to mention you could get wildly different results from a disc pressed at Technidisc, WEA, Pioneer Japan, etc. A DVD pressed at one plant is going to look identical to one pressed at any other plant


DVDs stripped away all the noise and people for the first time saw how much DNR, EE and processing affected video transfers on LD. It forced the video companies to up their game and bring the format actually looking closest to film until the advent of Blu-ray.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Filmlike?


Film doesn't have color noise and other LD artifacts. Not to mention you could get wildly different results from a disc pressed at Technidisc, WEA, Pioneer Japan, etc. A DVD pressed at one plant is going to look identical to one pressed at any other plant


DVDs stripped away all the noise and people for the first time saw how much DNR, EE and processing affected video transfers on LD. It forced the video companies to up their game and bring the format actually looking closest to film until the advent of Blu-ray.

Ya we get it. You have THX in your name therefore you must be a sound and video engineer and your opinion is above all else...

You're actually stating that the advent of DVD ushered in the nirvana of video quality? Really?

Laserdisc was a terrific format years ahead of it's time. Many of us still collect them and still enjoy them for various reasons - and we don't care how technically superior Blu-ray is. I don't know why some people just can't accept that.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Ya we get it. You have THX in your name therefore you must be a sound and video engineer and your opinion is above all else...

You're actually stating that the advent of DVD ushered in the nirvana of video quality? Really?

Laserdisc was a terrific format years ahead of it's time. Many of us still collect them and still enjoy them for various reasons - and we don't care how technically superior Blu-ray is. I don't know why some people just can't accept that.

Other than making a sarcastic attack what is your point again?

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Other than making a sarcastic attack what is your point again?

I believe I succinctly stated it in my last paragraph. Perhaps you should read it again...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

I believe I succinctly stated it in my last paragraph. Perhaps you should read it again...

No matter how many times I read it I can't find anything that remotely resembles a coherent point, other than a nasty opinion. Other than turning a technical statement into some kind personal offense.

[thecalm_7]

Probably not the best place to ask but this thread is quite active. What model laser disc player would be good. I inherited my brothers collection and his player did not get sent from his estate.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

Probably not the best place to ask but this thread is quite active. What model laser disc player would be good. I inherited my brothers collection and his player did not get sent from his estate.

Pretty much anything Pioneer is good. Dual sided play is a great feature to have, as well as digital search & freeze frame. Like the Pioneer CLD-D704. If you want to use the AC-3 (Dolby Digital) out you need a decoder that can handle it and those are extremely rare now.

[Retroj23]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Pretty much anything Pioneer is good. Dual sided play is a great feature to have, as well as digital search & freeze frame. Like the Pioneer CLD-D704. If you want to use the AC-3 (Dolby Digital) out you need a decoder that can handle it and those are extremely rare now.

Yes, the CLD-D704 is one of the finest non-Elite players Pioneer ever made. I picked mine up from craigslist a few years back for $40. There are deals out there, one just has to be patient and look. I would stay away from e-bay since the prices are insane and shipping is not kind to LD players. I once ordered a player on line and it arrived with the front panel broken in half. It was a hassle returning it

Good luck.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

Probably not the best place to ask but this thread is quite active. What model laser disc player would be good. I inherited my brothers collection and his player did not get sent from his estate.

I'm partial to the Pioneer HLD-X9. It can be found for less than the X0, and it has the auto-flip capability. The LD-S9 was also a pretty decent player. That said, these are the most expensive players and most people would balk at the price.

As these were never sold outside of Japan you would also need a step down? transformer.

All that said, there is an existing thread for all Laserdisc matters here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...40238&page=166

[invenio]

Something like the HLD-X9 is great, no question. However, the price is probably higher than most would like to spend, especially somebody just starting the hobby. You can get a CLD-97 or CLD-99 which has picture quality close to the last models at a much lower price point.

I actually liked the CLD-97 so much that I own two (both modded with AC3 out which is pretty easy to do), just in case one fails (who knows how my primary will be running in 20 years).

[singhcr]

I've been collecting some LDs of classic cartoons from when I grew up in the '90s and so far they are dramatically better than the DVDs in both PQ and especially AQ.

Maybe the masters used for the DVDs are faded or otherwise poor as a DVD should have superior PQ to an LD, but not in the case of these Disney cartoons. I see the same scratches in the film in the same spots so I am really confused as to why the DVDs look so bad. I can try and post some comparison shots if anyone wants to see them.

Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers is a good example. The DVDs are just terrible as the color is very muddy and in some episodes it is so dark that I can hardly make out what is going on. I saw a listing for an LD and I bought it as I was curious to see how it would look.

Holy crap... what an improvement! Not only is the fine detail much better, but the colors are far brighter and with better overall contrast. In this case, it's like going from VHS to BD in terms of a jump in clarity. There is a bit of color bleeding when you see red, but I'll live with that over what I get with the DVDs. It also doesn't help the DVD when there are far too many episodes compressed onto a single disc. The audio quality improvement is also night and day. The DD 1.0 mix is so muddled that it is hard to hear anything, and the theme song is especially bad. The analog and digital tracks are far superior and as I've only ever heard this on OTA TV back in the late 1980s or on DVD, it is a big big improvement. Am I showing my enthuasism?

I got some DuckTales LDs and discovered the same difference. My friends might chuckle when I pull out the disc to play it, but they stop laughing when the episode starts. We all grew up with these shows and they have never looked this good.

In almost every case the DVD will look better than the LD (especially for live action movies), but the audio is so much better that I'm seeking out LDs for cartoons that are not on BD. I can get the Batman animated movies and Gargoyles on LD too.

However, it is not all roses for the LD format. I tried watching A View To A Kill on LD and it was pretty bad- the DVD is much better in terms of PQ.

Maybe it is because the LDs were the premiere format of the day and now these properties aren't worth much to Disney, but I've found a niche where I am geting good use out of my Pioneer D703. I just need to find a good way to adjust the color on my plasma as it looks very washed out as compared to seeing the same disc on my 65" rear projection SDTV.

Considering that Disney can't be bothered to release the last season of Chip and Dale or Gargoyles on DVD, the LDs may be the best way to see these shows unless there's some super fan in the company who wants to transfer the BetaSP masters to BD or go back to the film elements like the Looney Toons or Tom and Jerry shows. I won't hold my breath.

[alphadec]

I dont understand the love for laserdisc, at all.

PQ: is analog and compare it to vhs but since you can only use composit connection then the picture will always be awfull.

Audio is stereo 2-channel.

The only thing I find intresting with LD is the discs and the have preserved the true picture so watch a film in letterbox and you see it how it is meant to been seen. Thats sad about blu-ray that they pan and scan the picture, very sad.

So compare LD to Vhs/beta but not blu-ray.

[invenio]

Originally Posted by alphadec

I dont understand the love for laserdisc, at all.

PQ: is analog and compare it to vhs but since you can only use composit connection then the picture will always be awfull.

Video quality is about twice the resolution of vhs, more comparable to DVD than vhs.

Audio is stereo 2-channel.

There are many multichannel (5.1) laserdiscs. Your information is wrong.

The only thing I find intresting with LD is the discs and the have preserved the true picture so watch a film in letterbox and you see it how it is meant to been seen. Thats sad about blu-ray that they pan and scan the picture, very sad.

So compare LD to Vhs/beta but not blu-ray.

Don't forget that there are many movies that have not been released on blu-ray. Again, the comparison of LD to VHS/beta is not really even close. LD is far superior to anything offered on VHS/beta. LD video/audio quality is more on par with DVD.

[alphadec]

Originally Posted by invenio

Video quality is about twice the resolution of vhs, more comparable to DVD than vhs.



There are many multichannel (5.1) laserdiscs. Your information is wrong.



Don't forget that there are many movies that have not been released on blu-ray. Again, the comparison of LD to VHS/beta is not really even close. LD is far superior to anything offered on VHS/beta. LD video/audio quality is more on par with DVD.

Well I own both a laserdisc player and a bluray player and vhs!.

Your claim that LD is twice the resolution o vhs is something that is completely wrong. What we are talking about here is a analog system and at the time LD was made then we hade resolution 525-lines, so thats the same as we have on vhs.

Again I dont see the fascination for LD today when we have blu-ray that is many times better.

[invenio]

"LaserDisc had a number of advantages over VHS. It featured a far sharper picture with a horizontal resolution of 425 TVL lines for NTSC and 440 TVL lines for PAL discs, while VHS featured only 240 TVL lines with NTSC."

Copied straight from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc#VHS

Nobody is saying LD is a superior format to blu-ray from a purely technical standpoint. Some people like the format better for many reasons. That could simply be as simple as "this movie is not available blu-ray" to something more artistic like "the cover art is awesome".

I collect laserdiscs and I also watch blu-ray's. It's not about being better or worse, they both have their advantages and sometimes those advantages have more to do with the release, sound mixing, cover art, than a simple technical spec like how many lines of resolution.