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Old 10-04-2008, 04:16 AM   #161
dwigtkschrute dwigtkschrute is offline
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What I want to know is what will you "fullscreen" fans do when your favorite older flicks, shot open matte, start coming to blu? They're going to have bars on the sides.

Also, if you bought a frame for the Mona Lisa, but it didn't fit, would you chop it up to fill the frame? Film is art. Artists create it. To want to change it because you can't see beyond the black bars is censorship.
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:09 AM   #162
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K2K View Post
If they were shot in Super 35 (so there is actually picture area above and beyond the 2.35 or 2.39 points of a 2.35/2.39 film) doesn't that mean they could often open up the frame so they would not need to crop the sides (or at least not as much)? So a 1.78:1 version could actually be showing more picture area from the movie (the director may prefer the 2.35:1 version though - except for the IMAX Dark Knight - not shot super35 but it's a similar point).
Yes "Scope" ratio films shot in Super 35 can be shown in 1.78 or even in 1.33, and probably most Standard Widescreen movies (1.66-1.85) can be seen (and were seen) on 4:3 TVs for many years by showing the extra image exposed on the negative. But that's not the way they were shot, and you'd be changing the dramatic intent is you do that. Tense close ups become boring medium shots and normal or intimate medium shots become distant long shots etc, therefore changing the language of the movie.

Pan/scan with all its evils, tends to mantain the language and dramatic emphasis because a close up remains a close up a long shot a long shot etc, instead of everything becoming a making of the movie version shot from a camera 10 feet behind the director's camera :




But this thread is not about discussing aspect ratios, but about a list of which movies that were made in a ratio similar to a current standard widescreen display for those who prefer to watch them on their HDTVs.

Last edited by Deciazulado; 10-04-2008 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:20 PM   #163
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Anamorphic DVD At Last!

All right - here's where we get to the meat of anamorphic widescreen. As most of you know, those of us here in the U.S. have a Digital TV in our future, like it or not. The reason for this, is because the Government has mandated a full conversion of American television broadcasting to Digital TV by the year 2006 (although the realities of the marketplace will probably mean that the actual conversion will take as much as a decade longer). Digital TV (aka DTV, as determined by the Grand Alliance - the industry consortium which decided upon the standard) is really some 18 different formats labeled under one umbrella term. Some of these formats are Standard definition (SDTV - meaning that they use the same 525 lines of picture resolution that current analog NTSC does today) and some are High-definition (HDTV - broadcasting at a full 1080 lines of resolution). All are fully Digital, which should result in much better reception quality - with a DTV, you'll either get a perfect picture, or no picture at all (gone are the days of watching electronic snow on your TV). Some of the DTV formats don't even deliver video at all, carrying instead simply computer data, for such things as live stock quotes, sports scores, Internet access and more. In fact, one of the big controversies at the moment, is that the major TV networks want to use the extra bandwidth that DTV provides to broadcast MORE channels of SDTV, instead of the HDTV we all expect (you see... by broadcasting MORE channels instead of better channels, they can sell more advertising).

But I digress. You all want to know what Digital TV has to do with anamorphic DVD. Here's the deal: one of the cool things about DTV is it's aspect ratio - 1.78:1 (also known as 16x9). In other words, the future of TV is widescreen. Surely, you can already imagine how much easier that will make it to bring widescreen movies to home video. No longer will TV's aspect ratio require the butchering of widescreen films.

U.S. Digital TV (1.78:1 or 16x9)

Ah... but it gets even better. Digital TV is "anamorphic ready". Which means that if a widescreen movie on DVD is recorded in the anamorphic format, a Digital TV can "unsqueeze" the video image contained on the disc, so that it fills the full width of the TV screen, while retaining a LOT more vertical resolution. In other words, the video's vertical resolution will blow a standard letterbox transfer away. The image you'll be seeing will contain a LOT more lines of vertical resolution (still not fully high-definition, but much more than on a Standard TV), so the picture will be clearer and cleaner than you've ever seen it before... and you'll still be seeing the original widescreen aspect ratio as the director intended you to. And all this is with the current anamorphic DVDs that you all have in your movie libraries today - there's no need to buy new discs. How do you like them apples?


So How Does Anamorphic Work?

Given all of the early foot-dragging by the Hollywood studios toward anamorphic on DVD, you're probably convinced that it must surely be an expensive and time-consuming process. You couldn't be more wrong. All that's required from the perspective of the Hollywood studios, is to request an anamorphic transfer during the telecine stage. I've done some digging, and discovered that this generally costs no more than it does to commission a standard letterbox transfer, as long as the proper film elements are available (extra costs are usually only incurred if the original film elements are in need of restoration). The best possible film transfer would, of course, be a high-definition anamorphic transfer. That will run you several thousand dollars more... but there are advantages to it. The most obvious of these is the higher video quality an HD transfer will afford you. Also, you'll get a digital master of your film that can sometimes be digitally cleaned up and restored to better than original theatrical quality. This master can be stored to preserve the film for future generations in pristine condition (the data won't degrade like film will). Better still, this master can be used to originate the film on every home video and broadcasting format currently available today, from VHS and Laserdisc to DVD and HTDV.

Once the transfer is done, and you've got a digital master of your film in hand, all that's required in the DVD authoring stage is to tell the technician that you want the widescreen video to be in anamorphic mode. The tech simply goes into his authoring software, and presses a button to insert the necessary flags onto the disc (so that the DVD player and DTV will recognize the anamorphic signal). That's it. That's as hard as it gets.

Okay... so your disc is anamorphic, and you've got your DVD player and DTV ready to go. I'm sure by now you're all wondering how anamorphic works after you pop the disc into your player... and more importantly, how it looks. I'm more than happy to explain it to you. In fact, it's probably easier if I just SHOW you. Below you'll find links to demonstrations I've put together using actual video from a pair of films that are available on DVD in BOTH anamorphic widescreen and standard letterbox (non-anamorphic). I'm using two films as examples, because I want to show you the difference between films in Academy Flat (1.85:1) and Anamorphic Scope (2.35:1) aspect ratios. So go ahead and click over to those (first one, then the other), and by the time you come back here, you'll know exactly how anamorphic on DVD works.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic185demo.html
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html

Okay... if you've come back after checking out the two demonstrations above, you no doubt know that the widescreen video signal on an anamorphic DVD appears to be be "squished". Here's an interesting side note on this before I continue: This squished picture is why a lot of people early on thought their DVD players were defective. Many of the early players shipped from the manufacturers in Japan preset for widescreen TVs, and unknowing consumers here in the U.S. simply hadn't told their player that they had a Standard TV instead. And it wasn't just consumers making this mistake - you could walk into almost any Best Buy or Circuit City early on and see the same problem right on the sales floor. Go figure.


I Don't Have A Digital TV - Why Should I Care?

So you don't have a Digital TV yet - you're not alone. Some of you may be wondering why you should give a rip about anamorphic if you plan on keeping that Standard TV for quite a while to come. That's a question I get a lot, not just from consumers, but from the studios as well. Believe me - you'd be amazed how many studios execs use that as an excuse not to go anamorphic.

The bottom line is this - doing a new anamorphic transfer is almost always going to result in better quality, even if you still only have a Standard TV. The reason for this, is that today's telecine processes are fully digital. The state-of-the-art in film transfer technology is much better today that it was even a few years ago, especially with high-definition transfers being done more and more. When a studio simply re-uses an "off the shelf" laserdisc master (done even just a few years ago), you're going to see unnecessary edge-enhancement and all kinds of other NTSC and analog artifacts in the video. A new digital transfer will be clean and crisp, with vibrant and correctly timed color. It may even have been digitally cleaned, with little spots of print damage, hair and dust actually having been digitally erased from the image altogether.

And remember how much money you're all spending now to replace your VHS collection of movies on DVD? Do you really want to have to re-purchase all your films again when you get that new Digital TV? Of course not. Making sure to buy anamorphic widescreen DVDs now, means that your money is well spent. You can rest easy, knowing that your current DVD library is a least a little future proof - your discs look great now, and they'll look even better on that new widescreen TV you buy in a few years.

So doing anamorphic on DVD is a win-win situation for everyone, right? Sure. But there was a time, early on in the history of the format, where the studios were reluctant. In many cases, they simply didn't understand the anamorphic feature of DVD. You'd be surprised how many studio executives in charge of DVD that I had to explain it to early on. And some were concerned that all that electronic "squishing and unsquishing" of the video signal would degrade the picture quality on current TVs. To be fair, some early players weren't so good at the process. But that problem has long since been resolved. Current DVD players almost universally render amazing widescreen images from anamorphic DVDs.

All said, it took a couple of years for some studios to finally make the move to anamorphic widescreen on DVD. Buena Vista and Fox have only recently started doing anamorphic transfers for their discs (Tarzan is anamorphic, for example, as will be Fox's upcoming Fight Club disc). But some studios have been doing right by DVD straight out of the gate, like Columbia TriStar, Warner Bros., New Line and DreamWorks (once they finally hopped on the DVD bandwagon). Others, like Paramount, MGM and Universal, soon adopted the feature on at least some of their releases. The bottom line, is that for many of the studios, anamorphic widescreen has become the rule for DVD, instead of the exception. And every major studio has now released at least a few anamorphic discs.


How Do I Know A DVD Is Anamorphic?

Few studios seem to label the anamorphic widescreen feature on their DVD packaging in exactly the same way, and some don't label it at all. But the following are some words to look for in general.
But what if you've got a widescreen DVD and you can't find any markings about anamorphic on the packaging? Many of Columbia TriStar's widescreen DVDs are anamorphic (but not labeled as such). How do you tell? Well... remember that problem we mentioned a few minutes ago, where people were seeing "squished" pictures on their Standard TV? You can use that to find out - simply go into your DVD player's setup menu and tell it that you have a widescreen TV (it may be labeled simply "16x9"). On your Standard TV, if a disc is anamorphic, it will look squished. If it looks the same, it's non-anamorphic. Don't forget to switch your DVD player's setup back to Standard "4x3" TV mode when you're done!

You should know that here at The Digital Bits, whenever we review a DVD, we'll always let you know if it uses anamorphic widescreen or not. Just look for this symbol at the top of the review:

Anamorphic Widescreen - Enhanced for 16x9 TVs


Conclusion

So have I convinced you yet? Well don't take my word for it - go out to your local electronics store and ask to see a demonstration of anamorphic DVD on a widescreen TV yourself. Once you see it firsthand, I think you'll be converted. And remember, you don't have to have a fancy $5,000 TV to see the improved picture quality that a new anamorphic transfer can provide on DVD. They'll look great on your current TVs right now.

Anamorphic widescreen DVD is all about giving you the most lines of picture resolution (and thus quality), while still allowing you to watch widescreen movies as they were meant to be seen. All you have to do is open the pages of any major home theater magazine (or web site online), to find the experts in agreement with me on the benefits of anamorphic on DVD. I think Stereophile Guide to Home Theater's Fred Manteghian said it best, when extolling the virtues of anamorphic in his regular column in the magazine: "All else being equal, the image with the most lines wins." Amen, brother.

Last edited by mikealarm; 10-04-2008 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:50 PM   #164
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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DVDs? :>
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:46 PM   #165
ca3k2010 ca3k2010 is offline
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sorry if already said but superbad and forgetting sarah marshall are full screen id imagine 40 year old virgin and knocked up are as well
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:49 PM   #166
blackhawktraffic blackhawktraffic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca3k2010 View Post
sorry if already said but superbad and forgetting sarah marshall are full screen id imagine 40 year old virgin and knocked up are as well
You mean they are filmed in a 1:85 aspect ratio therefore on a 16.9 TV they would fill the whole screen up instead of having black bars like a movie that is filmed in a 2:35 to 2:40 aspect ratio?

And yes Knocked Up and 40 Year old Virgin are in a 1:85 ratio.

Last edited by blackhawktraffic; 10-04-2008 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:34 PM   #167
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Both the UK and the Japanese releases of the movie are butchered to 1.78;1 which forced me to triple-dip the U.S. release (OAR 2.35:1 maintained) by Universal after they went blu. You have to steer clear of this one to enjoy a fully filled screen. I cannot believe this thread.

Last edited by Konrad; 10-04-2008 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:36 AM   #168
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One Missed Call is in 1.78:1.

Let me state that the people posting here about how much they hate black bars because they don't fill the entire screen make me very mad. HOWEVER the OP does not seem to be one of these most vehement people and so I figure this thread is okay.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:39 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capmaster View Post
Kudos to simplepinoi177 for this thread! Bravo!!!

It's annoying for me when I get a movie in "Widescreen" and it turns out to be a 2.4:1, like watching a movie through the gun slit in a tank

HDTV s are 16:9. This translates to 1.78:1 Less than that and you get a pillar box. More than that and you get black bars above and below.

I want to use all of the screen, thank you. I paid good money for all that screen real estate, after all

Thank you for this thread. I see myself referring to it over and over in the future, checking movies here before I buy them

+1

I couldn't agree more.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:09 PM   #170
singhcr singhcr is offline
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If people here want no bars on their screen whatsoever, the only aspect ratio you could watch without using a stretch/zoom feature on your TV (which really distorts the picture and removes detail, not to mention framing issues) is 1.78:1. Some people have CRT HDTV's like me, and they have overscan so you don't see the bars on 1.85:1 (I'd like to see them but I can't do anything about it). If you have an OAR less than 1.78:1 you get bars on the sides of the screen.

Examples of 1.66:1 would be:

Dr. No
From Russia With Love
Nightmare Before Christmas
etc.

As for TV shows and grain, TV shows don't have grain because they were shot on digital HD cameras, some might add grain in post-processing but most don't. As for movies, if it is shot on film, you get grain because the image is literally stored in grains that compose the film. Using digital noise reduction (DNR) to remove visible grain therefore removes visible detail, because the image=grain! Newer movies use a film stock that has little to no grain because a lot of people like the slick look it lends. However, even on newer movies like Casino Royale, there is still film grain, it's just not as obvious as on older film stocks like The Godfather.

Last edited by singhcr; 10-30-2008 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:13 PM   #171
ClaytonMG ClaytonMG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
+1

I couldn't agree more.
Did you join to say +1 to someone who doesn't understand aspect ratios?

It shouldn't matter if you bought a TV and want it filled or not, what should matter is keeping the director's original vision.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:01 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhcr View Post
As for TV shows and grain, TV shows don't have grain because they were shot on digital HD cameras, some might add grain in post-processing but most don't.
Lots of TV shows were/are shot on film, especially US TV shows. Some use both film and HD video cameras. While HD video doesn't have grain, it can have video noise.

Last edited by 4K2K; 10-31-2008 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:50 AM   #173
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Wow.
You people are the reason why Wal-mart always got the full screen versions of DVDs when they were available and never had widescreen versions. Talk about the LCD...
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:10 AM   #174
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Reply to OP

The Fall is "full screen" and a great flick!
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:50 AM   #175
singhcr singhcr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K2K View Post
Lots of TV shows were/are shot on film, especially US TV shows. Some use both film and HD video cameras. While HD video doesn't have grain, it can have video noise.
That's true, I forgot about that. I assumed people were talking about newer shows, which are primarily shot on HD cameras.
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:54 AM   #176
simplepinoi177 simplepinoi177 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca3k2010 View Post
sorry if already said but superbad and forgetting sarah marshall are full screen id imagine 40 year old virgin and knocked up are as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawktraffic View Post
You mean they are filmed in a 1:85 aspect ratio therefore on a 16.9 TV they would fill the whole screen up instead of having black bars like a movie that is filmed in a 2:35 to 2:40 aspect ratio?

And yes Knocked Up and 40 Year old Virgin are in a 1:85 ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFAlien View Post
One Missed Call is in 1.78:1.

Let me state that the people posting here about how much they hate black bars because they don't fill the entire screen make me very mad. HOWEVER the OP does not seem to be one of these most vehement people and so I figure this thread is okay.
Thanks UFAlien for the respect. I am not one of those people. I prefer a specific AR but I have a lot of BDs that aren't in it. I hate it when people completely judge someone just cuz you have an opposing opinion;hence, just cuz I like a specific AR doesn't mean I refuse to watch anything else...but if that's someone's prerogative, i wouldn't bother them and respect them if they did want that...


Quote:
Originally Posted by wafi View Post
Reply to OP

The Fall is "full screen" and a great flick!
Thanks to all of you who contributed a movie...i'll be sure to add them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
+1

I couldn't agree more.
Thanks for the support...I'm glad you guys appreciate what i'm trying to do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post
Did you join to say +1 to someone who doesn't understand aspect ratios?


It shouldn't matter if you bought a TV and want it filled or not, what should matter is keeping the director's original vision.
Just because someone prefers an aspect ratio that differs from what you prefer doesn't mean that they don't "understand aspect ratios." I prefer a fullscreen 1.78:1 aspect ratio, but I have a general idea of what aspect ratios are and that black bars widescreen are there to display the whole scene/director's vision without compromising it. But why should the ONLY thing that "should matter is keeping the director's original vision" instead of wanting an expensive TV you purchased with hard earned money to display a certain way or not? why does the director's vision the only thing that matters? why can't it be a specific person's enjoyment of the movie?

In any case...sorry if the list isn't updated extra frequently, a lot of times I don't get an email notification to let me know that the thread has started back up...thanks for the support and contributions
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:05 AM   #177
TATTOORAY TATTOORAY is offline
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That is all.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:09 AM   #178
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Legends - Live at Montreux

The only one in my collection.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:42 PM   #179
simplepinoi177 simplepinoi177 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickBalto View Post
Legends - Live at Montreux

The only one in my collection.
thanks for the contributions...added
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:10 AM   #180
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HellBoy (first one)
ACDC live at dottington are both 1.85
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