'Star Trek Beyond' - July 22, 2016

[HD Canuck]

Rather than a Fast and Furious crossover, they should just through this up on the big screen...

Star Trek Pump up the Volume MARRS 720 - YouTube

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Cut the cameo scene out of the movie entirely.
Does the movie still work (even if you don't like it)? Yes.
Remove a crutch and someone falls. The movie in no way depends on the cameo.
So, one more time: not a "crutch."

Alright, that's a reasonable way to look at it.

But it wasn't just old man Spock Prime -- who was undoubtedly there for fan service -- it was also a lot of Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan in general that could be seen as a crutch for this movie. Spock Prime was like a crutch for a crutch.

This is how I see it... Spock Prime's reference to Khan Prime (if you will) was there to acknowledge the past timeline continuity, yet again, in an attempt to not only reinforce to the audience how much of a bad-ass Khan is supposed to be, but to support the whole twist at the end of Into Darkness, which is a blatant homage (rip-off) of The Wrath of Khan. In my opinion, by referencing the past timeline, they were attempting to remind us that it is still canon, regardless of this being a new timeline, so that when they gave us their big finale with the reversal of the Kirk/Spock roles and the death of a certain character, it would be greater appreciated by the fans, because they already set you up to think about Wrath of Khan.

The thing is, it was mistake to do, and as a fan, I didn't appreciate it, because all it did was make me think of that other movie and the issue I take with this Caucasian Khan being nothing like Khan Prime. Why draw upon a previous source so much, that it's only going to open up comparisons and create issues with the contradictions of the character?

So yeah, Spock Prime was not so much a crutch that was needed to support the whole movie, but a crutch in the sense that was used by the writers as an attempt to support their decisions with their ending. An ending that this movie hinged upon. So basically, it was an unnecessary crutch to lean on. They could have just as easily walked on their own two feet without it, but for some reason, they chose to lean on past continuity to help support their movie. And it felt like a cheap cheat to me. But this is just my opinion.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HD Canuck

Rather than a Fast and Furious crossover, they should just through this up on the big screen...

Star Trek Pump up the Volume MARRS 720 - YouTube

Ah, Charles Napier as a space hippy. God bless Star Trek.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by borgmatrix

Then, as mentioned by Darkstream, Spock's providing information on this guy being dangerous when we've already seen him blow up a Section 31 facility, attack a senior Starfleet meeting, and singlehandedly take down scores of Klingons. We know he's dangerous. We've already seen it. We don't need Spock Prime to tell us. And describing Khan as "the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced" feels so revisionist. He appeared in one episode of TOS. Was he really more dangerous than so many other threats they faced? And yeah, he was in TWOK, so somewhat special status given that we may not have seen a lot of repeat appearances by villains. But still.

And then having younger Spock ask him how they defeated Khan. Really? Like you can sum up Khan in some easy package with some obvious way to defeat him.

That whole scene really bothered me. I'd have much preferred something like in the episode Space Seed with them just accessing Starfleet databanks, and having more information provided about Khan during the eugenics period on Earth (and maybe some of the reflection/respect seen from Kirk, Scotty, and McCoy in the episode with regard to what Khan accomplished). That, to me, would have been more interesting/informative.

Spock Prime, ya know the one who "died" at the hand of Khan, reinforcing how dangerous Khan was to Spock was forced? It's pretty reasonable that Spock Prime would find Khan the most dangerous of all the foes they faced.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ah, Charles Napier as a space hippy. God bless Star Trek.

Spock "jamming" with the space hippies never fails to make me cringe. People complain about "bad" STAR TREK from the film perspective, they've obviously never watched TOS' third season.

[borgmatrix]

Originally Posted by Groot

Spock Prime, ya know the one who "died" at the hand of Khan, reinforcing how dangerous Khan was to Spock was forced? It's pretty reasonable that Spock Prime would find Khan the most dangerous of all the foes they faced.

There's no doubt he'd find him dangerous. But the most dangerous? I'm not sure about that. The probe the encountered in IV that was threatening the entire planet might be more dangerous. The Doomsday Machine. V'Ger. A lot of the god-like beings. Singling out Khan as the most dangerous enemy they faced felt a bit too much.

As far as Khan killing Spock...I mean, we had Soran killing Kirk. Is he up there too in the discussion for "most dangerous"

Understand, I'm not disagreeing that he's very dangerous. But I don't know that he could so easily be put at the very top of the list. It's feels a bit like Lindelof, Abrams, and company treating Khan like the Joker of the TOS, when he's not quite that to Kirk/Enterprise.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by borgmatrix

There's no doubt he'd find him dangerous. But the most dangerous? I'm not sure about that. The probe the encountered in IV that was threatening the entire planet might be more dangerous. The Doomsday Machine. V'Ger. A lot of the god-like beings. Singling out Khan as the most dangerous enemy they faced felt a bit too much.

He's the only (single) villian they faced twice and the second time he did get Spock killed. Khan singled out the Enterprise and her crew ("He tasks me"), and that's what Spock Prime meant.


The whale probe was not a villian. It was dangerous but when it got what it needed it left. Same with V'Ger. Doomsday Machine was stopped. None of them came back to directly threaten the Enterprise crew again.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, I guess saying "he was the most persistent enemy we ever faced" didn't quite sound as menacing or foreboding as the other thing.

[L-Rouge]

to expand on the fan convention news previous page

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14...iler-fan-event


this trailer being released is being labelled "Final"

"Mark your calendars — the final trailer for Star Trek Beyond will debut May 20. "

"Justin Lin, who took over director duties from J.J. Abrams for the third movie in the franchise, announced Thursday that the newest glimpse of never-before-seen footage from the July 22 release will be part of a one-time-only fan event celebrating the 50th anniversary of the series created by Gene Roddenberry. Taking place at the historic Paramount Pictures studio lot in Hollywood, California, the cast and crew will join Lin for a Q&A where there are promises of special guest appearances and other surprises. Fans who can’t join in person will be able to watch all the action via Facebook Live."

entertainment weekly

[doctor_who]

Originally Posted by tigertron

Let's hope this trailer silences the complainers. It needs a good choice of music, preferably something classic and cut to appeal to Trekkies.

Trekkies will hardly determine the success of this film.

[blurayfriend]

I'm rooting for this. And I much prefer Justin Lin to that fool James Wan- what a pretentious douche. Lin seems like a good guy in interviews. I know that doesn't mean much but it makes me want to root for him and hope for the best.

(in case anyone is bewildered at my comparison, Wan took over the Fast and Furious movies from Lin and now they've spun out into doing STB and Aquaman on their own respectively)

[L-Rouge]

i've been generally impressed with Justins attitude overall. am certainly comforted by the fact he seems a genuine trekkie himself.

[JamesKurtovich]

I hope the new trailer is good.

[borgmatrix]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I hope the new trailer is good.

Yeah. And the movie as well.

I'm looking forward to the movie, but don't know what to expect.

Things I'm encouraged by:
*Pegg and others talking about this movie getting into the 5-year mission of exploration more
*Lin doing well with an ensemble cast in the FF movies, and handling the sense of family well
*Pegg's involvement in writing, as he has experience (right?) and provides continuity having been part of this new franchise
*Spock and Bones having a lot of time together (rather than the usual Kirk/Spock pairing in the movies with Bones taking a back seat...though, eventually, they've gotta get back to the "trinity" of Kirk-Spock-Bones live the TV show)

Things I'm worried or less certain about:
*So much of the creative team that started this new ST movie series being gone. I'm assuming that though Abrams is executive producer, he's not nearly as involved as previously. From a continuity perspective, not sure if this will be good.
*The first trailer gave me an Insurrection vibe. I hope its just superficial similarities.
*No Alice Eve. Would have loved to have had another regular female cast member, and there are interesting things they could have played with her relationship with Kirk given what we know from the original timeline and TWOK
*the aliens/villains seemed generic/bland. And with all the action in the first trailer, has me concerned about we're again falling too much into Enterprise crew vs the Bad Guys and not leaning enough on the exploration/strange new worlds part.
*Less Enterprise / space stuff

[in2blu]

A trailer in the vein of this one would be ideal

[Show spoiler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkx9m3x-ak

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by borgmatrix

*So much of the creative team that started this new ST movie series being gone. I'm assuming that though Abrams is executive producer, he's not nearly as involved as previously. From a continuity perspective, not sure if this will be good.

Is it not a positive?

Seriously the problems of the first two movies were primarily because of Abrams not getting Star Trek and Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof being awful sci-fi writers.

[borgmatrix]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

Is it not a positive?

I expected someone would give me that.

Seriously the problems of the first two movies were primarily because of Abrams not getting Star Trek and Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof being awful sci-fi writers.

I loved the first two. Second was more flawed, but I enjoyed so much of what the story involved. I thought Abrams was great with what he brought to the look and feel of the movie.

I understand people being glad they're gone. I'm speaking more from the question/fear of whether a new creative team loses something, whether its momentum or some other aspects of continuity or smooth transition.

And I really hope its not going to feel like we're completely starting over, or that there's a disconnect between this movie and the previous two.

Not serious concerns, just some things on my mind as we approach the third movie.

[GC Riot]

I really like both of the Abrams films, but I can see how Trek fans might not really like the more action-oriented vibe that permeates throughout, and this new one seems to veer in that direction even further, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. It makes these films seem more generic and interchangeable, like you could almost just slap a Star Wars-logo on and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference.
I choose to look at them as entertaining and well-made sci-fi films, not as Star Trek films, and I think a lot of people would appreciate them more if they did just that as well.

[doctor_who]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

I really like both of the Abrams films, but I can see how Trek fans might not really like the more action-oriented vibe that permeates throughout, and this new one seems to veer in that direction even further, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. It makes these films seem more generic and interchangeable, like you could almost just slap a Star Wars-logo on and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference.
I choose to look at them as entertaining and well-made sci-fi films, not as Star Trek films, and I think a lot of people would appreciate them more if they did just that as well.

But, we wouldn't be getting more Star Trek films without that - the die hard Star Trek fanbase is nothing compared to the amount of people who liked the new Star Trek films.

[mrjeff]

Originally Posted by L-Rouge

i've been generally impressed with Justins attitude overall. am certainly comforted by the fact he seems a genuine trekkie himself.

This is a great story about him & his relationship to Trek: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/06/...ining-humanity