SVS SB-12plus or HSU VTF-3 MK3

[got rice]

I'm going to upgrade my sub within the next month or so and want to get some input betweent these two subs. I've done some research and it looks like HSU and SVS subs are the two I've narrowed it down to.

Is one better than the other for bottom end extension?

How about mid bass from 50Hz to 80Hz (where my crossover is set)?
My watching/ listening habits are movies/music 70/30 respectively, but I am building a home media library and will be listening to music via receiver with WMAL or FLAC files. So I would like the one which offers the better blend of music and movies?

Can you share any good or bad experiences with either of these brands?

SVS SB-12 PLUS

HSU VTF-3 MK3

[jomari]

hey got rice,

personally, these two companies share a great reputation for being the best in the internet direct business when it comes to subwoofers. both pioneers in the field, and leaders in both technology as well as service.

either of the two are definitely a great purchase. SVS is quite known to have superb customer service, and can 'measure' your room to see if the SB12 can accomodate your needs.

at this point, its a matter of aesthetics for me.

[got rice]

Thanks Jomari,

what do you think about the SVS cylinder subs?

When I first looked at them it reminded me of a Bazooka tube I had in the back of my car. I kinda like the design of it, a little usure about the end result.

[jomari]

Originally Posted by got rice

Thanks Jomari,

what do you think about the SVS cylinder subs?

When I first looked at them it reminded me of a Bazooka tube I had in the back of my car. I kinda like the design of it, a little usure about the end result.

oh, you mean those beast? hmm. its quite a touchy feely topic to be honest...

a lot of people swear by em, considering them to have better output than the box subwoofers, and vice versa with the other camp... ive seen readings showing that the cylinders can hold its own, and do have a great amount of extension compared to the boxes... but of course due to its larger size.

they're great subwoofers, i can tell you that, but im not sure it passes the WAF or can be as flexible as a box sub.

just imagine having two of em in a room.

[got rice]

I didn't realize they were that big, I thought the opposite smaller footprint...When you say the cylinders don't have as much flexibility as a box, can you elaborate a little more? duh...never mind, you meant aesthetically.

between the two I like the looks of the SVS.

Martin Logan Dynamo? Paradigm seismic?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by got rice

I didn't realize they were that big, I thought the opposite smaller footprint...When you say the cylinders don't have as much flexibility as a box, can you elaborate a little more? duh...never mind, you meant aesthetically.

between the two I like the looks of the SVS.

Martin Logan Dynamo? Paradigm seismic?

good lord no! the footprint is impressive for what it is at around 16inches in diameter, but they sure stand out. pun intended.

about martin logans, or the paradigm, given the choice id go with the dynamo. checking out brian sturgeons sub always makes me cry in envy. i cant give you a more detailed response, since ive never tried both of em, simply due to financial reasons, and opportunity.

its always a good idea to get yourself a firm budget, and work from there.

although i never said anything about dreamin...

[lojack1976]

I myself am looking at the SVS PC12-NSD sub. I've been thinking about keeping things cheap and going the Audio Acoustics route, but the more I look at the SVS the more I want it. I'm not sure how it will appeal to one's wife(not an issue for me), and I'm sure it will be a conversation starter when visitors come to the house. I've been recommended the AV123 MFW-15 which is very highly rated and its around the same price, but I'm a little concerned with the amp problems they've had and their business practices aren't too favorable, so the SVS still has my eye.

The AA sub is $200 and goes down to 20hz while the SVS is $600 and goes down to 17hz or lower which really appeals to me. I'm just trying to decide if its worth an additional $400 to me though....and the more I think about it the more it does.

Now, choosing between the two subs you are considering based on performance...the winner is the HSU according to THIS list. The SVS is a tad better in the home theater department, but in musical performance the HSU gets the nod. The HSU is cheaper too, but then looks come into play which of course depends on one's tastes. Decisions...decisions...

[CosmoKid]

I have the VTF-3 and love it. I had a VTF-2 for 8 years and upgraded to a VTF-3 when I bought my house. It performs in a large area very very well and has handled everything I have thrown at it. And the VTF-3 in Rosenut is beautiful.

SVS makes an incredible sub so you can't go wrong either way. And I hate cylinder subs. They just look a bit goofy in a room to me.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by got rice

what do you think about the SVS cylinder subs?

When I first looked at them it reminded me of a Bazooka tube I had in the back of my car. I kinda like the design of it, a little usure about the end result.

They can hold their own and then some. These are nothing like those crappy little bazooka tubes. I'm not sure that they sound drastically different or better than a box, they mainly just look different. One nice thing about them is that they do not have any standing waves becuase of the enclosure shape, and there are almost no seams since it is a tube. You won't have to worry about vibrating panels - really not a big deal though since most subs in this price range will be built well anyways.

They can be a bit intimidating at first in the looks department, but it hides away well in a corner. I don't just tolerate the way it looks, I actually like it. It will never disappear though If you want some pics for size comparison, check my gallery.

I can't comment much on HSU but I know you will get a good sub from them too. What I can tell you is that SVS is wonderful and they have excellent customer service. Good luck!

[StimpsonJCat]

I don't think you could go wrong with either of those.

Might want to also consider the Epik Vanquish (Or Sentinel) and AV123 MFW-15. Right now the MFW-15 is back online at a good discount. You should read up some on the amp issues though. I've ordered one because of the great price and reviews of the MFW-15. They are taking orders that are suppose to ship end of June. I'm not counting on this timeline (because of recent history), but I'm not in a huge hurry. As long as it ships in the next month or two and they have the amp problems solved I'll be happy. Also, they are not going to charge my cc until it ships. So, if I see a better deal on another sub I can cancel.

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack

I'm not sure that they sound drastically different or better than a box, they mainly just look different. One nice thing about them is that they do not have any standing waves becuase of the enclosure shape, and there are almost no seams since it is a tube. You won't have to worry about vibrating panels - really not a big deal though since most subs in this price range will be built well anyways.

No home theater subwoofer is affected by standing waves, unless the subwoofer is the size of your home theater. Cylinder subs have seems just like any normal box subwoofer. Unless your subwoofer has no glue and you have aluminum strips separating the boards, you shouldn't have to worry about vibrating panels either. The main thing you should worry about (if you have to have something to worry about) would be the thickness of the material used, be it MDF or EFS and bracing.

[GregBe]

I don't think that would be a fair fight. You are comparing apples to oranges. The SB-12 is an amazing sub "for its size". It is quite a bit smaller than the VTF-3. If size doesn't matter, the VTF-3 will dig lower and be much more powerful. You are going to have to look at the bigger SVS to get a fairer comparison.

[got rice]

thanks for the feedback. After reading each of your responses, I did a little more reading and realized this wouldn't be a fair comparison. The SVS is sealed with a smaller enclosure, while the HSU is much larger and has two ports.

I guess I need to figure out what design is better for me ported vs sealed. I'm leaning towards the HSU for the fact that it has an option of adding a Turbo option to increase it's performance. However the SVS seems to be a better looking design, and have and a larger demographic.

My only experience with subs is a Klipsch SW-10 sealed, 100W RMSamp and active/passive radiator and built like a tank ( 40+ lbs).The other is a Klipsch SUB-12 325W ported which is pretty effective ,but the quality is cheap made of plastic and weighs in at 27lbs. I bought the SUB-12 without doing any research thinking it was built like the Klipsch of old. Unfortunatley, Klipsch had to compromise their quality to cater to the masses. Other than that, I can only go by the enclosures in a few of my cars. For me the sealed sounded better musically,but the ported added a new dimension, raw low end bass droppping sound.

I have a couple of questions.
1. Do the sealed subs really reach the low frequencies as stated in their specs?
2.Is it fair to compare the sound of bass from a car to a house? Sealed vs Ported?
3. When each of you were in my position, what was the determining factor for you?

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by got rice

thanks for the feedback. After reading each of your responses, I did a little more reading and realized this wouldn't be a fair comparison. The SVS is sealed with a smaller enclosure, while the HSU is much larger and has two ports.

I guess I need to figure out what design is better for me ported vs sealed. I'm leaning towards the HSU for the fact that it has an option of adding a Turbo option to increase it's performance. However the SVS seems to be a better looking design, and have and a larger demographic.

I have a couple of questions.
1. Do the sealed subs really reach the low frequencies as stated in their specs?
2.Is it fair to compare the sound of bass from a car to a house? Sealed vs Ported?
3. When each of you were in my position, what was the determining factor for you?

I really would like to know the answer to the 3 questions from got rice as well, as I am looking at adding a new sub and it is between these 2 manufacturers and models that are very close to the ones discussed....

[StimpsonJCat]

Sealed subs: Generally sound better with music than ported. The will have a more shallow drop off in the low frequencies and although they might go lower there is less output at the low end. Will perform well in a smaller "sealed" room.

Ported subs: Generally sound better with HT than sealed. They have a steep rolloff in the low frequencies, but have a more output in the low frequencies before the rolloff.



These are not absolutes. A great sealed sub may outperform a lesser ported sub for HT. A great ported sub may outperform a lesser sealed sub for music.

I don't think you can compare the sealed sub in a car to the house because of the drastic change in environment. Because a smaller sealed environment plays into the sealed subs strengths it is the obvious choice in a car.

Hands down the determining factor for me is what works best with HT so I went ported, but I chose one (MFW-15) that is highly rated for music as well (because I love the musical properties of my 10" Outlaw). But I'll use mine 85% HT / 15% Music so the choice was easy.

[jomari]

nicely said StimpsonJCat, very precise and not overwhelming to say the least. id give you a cookie if you were close by.

now, since you've got one answer, i can probably try to assist you with the other two.

1. cars and home theaters are two different beast. considering that you are addressing a smaller enclosure with a subwoofer, compared to an open space in a house. you also have to remember that most of the times, cars only use em for music, and not for home theater lows that hit quite hard at certain frequencies. may i mention standing waves in a car?

seriously tho, its two different applications.

2. id consider what you intend to use the subwoofer for, is it primarily for music listening, or movie watching? if i recall you gave us a 70/30 ratio heavy on the movie end. with that in mind, id go with a ported subwoofer. sealed subs are great, but you can also get yourself some port plugs to get something close to the performance of a sealed enclosure.

albeit you mentioning that svs has a greater following, thats true, but hsu also has a reputation considering that dr. hsu (who created a great deal of the aspects of better performing subs), has also hand in the business. hsu has always been considered an underdog to svs in the business based on peoples hearsay. i say otherwise. i say its their complete rival at times, and definitely can put up a good match. check out the craigsub listing, and you can see the specs and the applications placed into matching most of the subs in the market.

[DrasticPlastic]

My vote goes for the SVS, but I'm biased since I own the 20-39PC+, and a PB-13 Ultra, and used to own a PB10-NSD. You can't go wrong with a SVS subwoofer, and their customer service is among the absolute best in the industry.

[got rice]

StimpsonJcat, thanks for the illustration of the two subs performances. I'm pretty sure the ported sub will be my choice.

From what I've read, the HSU engineering is definitely getting my attention. The science behind the research and development that Dr Tsu has implemented with his VTF series is remarkable. To have the ability to choose between music mode and HT mode in a matter of seconds is the flexibility I'm looking for.
Dr. Tsu has also takin into consideration the mid to high level bass by introducing a Mid Bass Module or MBM. From looking at the chart that Stimpsomjcat has provided, it shows there is a large gap from 40 Hz to 70Hz between the two subs. This is where the MBM will fill in the void and offer a full dynamic range of bass frequency.
For me it is very clear the direction I am going to take when I purchase my next bass system.

HSU all the way.

Thank you, to each of you who offered your input.

[StimpsonJCat]

Keep in mind that is just the performance of those two subs. If a sealed sub has a really large enclosure it can still have great output down low. The Seaton Sound SubMersive comes to mind...Dual opposing 15" drivers in a sealed box...it's huge and goes really low with tons of output.

I do think ported is the way to go for you.


My Outlaw LFM-1 compact was designed by Dr. Hsu and I can eaisly recommend his subs. It really is an amazing 10" sub that is very musical with good mid range punch. It is only lacking in the low end with the limitations of a driver that size. I've decided to go a different direction with the MFW-15 for my next sub, but seriously considered getting the LFM-1 EX or one of the HSU subs. They really do have a great sound, but I couldn't pass up the performance for price of the MFW-15 even with the risks. The MBM has always peaked my interest because I love the punch in that frequency range. But it would be another box to fit somewhere and more money spent. But I bet a propertly setup system with a Sub & MBM would really impress.

Good luck with your purchase.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

Keep in mind that is just the performance of those two subs.

Where did you get this info? I like the comparisons.

My Outlaw LFM-1 compact was designed by Dr. Hsu and I can eaisly recommend his subs. It really is an amazing 10" sub that is very musical with good mid range punch. It is only lacking in the low end with the limitations of a driver that size. I've decided to go a different direction with the MFW-15 for my next sub, but seriously considered getting the LFM-1 EX or one of the HSU subs. They really do have a great sound, but I couldn't pass up the performance for price of the MFW-15 even with the risks. The MBM has always peaked my interest because I love the punch in that frequency range. But it would be another box to fit somewhere and more money spent. But I bet a propertly setup system with a Sub & MBM would really impress.

Good luck with your purchase.

Did HSU design all the Outlaw subs?

The more I read the more it gets confusing... If the specs are pretty much the same on paper what determines the quality of the sub?

Which is the most to least important? Drivers, Amps, Enclosures?

With AVR's each brand has its own sound. Is this true with subs?

Like Jomari said... like to keep it simple.

Thanks