Concern over growing refresh/anti-judder and "lack of motion blur" or LED TV's

[handisnacks]

First let me start off by saying our TV's in our house only get use from games and movies (blu-ray). We don't watch standard TV very often, and if we do it's not enough to care about it's quality. Now when it comes to my movies I like to watch them as originally intended by the creators. This thread isn't about film grain, or DNR or anything like that (which are all handled on the film publishers or distributors end) but about motion blur and it's role, or lack thereof, in future electronics we buy in stores.

I've been watching a lot of these newer TV's in stores (mainly the new LED TV's) and I've come to the conclusion that I don't like watching movies without a certain amount of motion blur. With such a high refresh rate and extreme anti-judder, everything just looks "off" and it completely draws me out of the film. I'm not really sure how the market is going right now, but I'll be quite upset within several years I have no choice but to buy one of these TV's, since I won't be able to find older ones (with 60hz or 120hz refresh rates).

Of course my mind could possibly change as technology grows, but as of right now, I'm not fond of how the new TV's look. If anyone has one, I'd like to know if they come with the ability to disabled these "advanced" functions?

[J6P]

You're confusing two different technologies.

What you seem to be objecting to is the "soap opera look" of new sets as seen in the big box stores. This has nothing to do with the refresh rate of the set (60/120/240Hz) or LED technology. This is a result of Motion Interpolation features being turned on.

The refresh rate is native to the display and cannot be "turned off". Nor would you want or need to. The Motion Interpolation systems, however, are easily switched off if you wish, and always will be. No need to worry.

[Uncle Leo]

^^^^^^I'm starting to respect this guys opinion ^^^^^

[handisnacks]

Originally Posted by J6P

You're confusing two different technologies.

What you seem to be objecting to is the "soap opera look" of new sets as seen in the big box stores. This has nothing to do with the refresh rate of the set (60/120/240Hz) or LED technology. This is a result of Motion Interpolation features being turned on.

The refresh rate is native to the display and cannot be "turned off". Nor would you want or need to. The Motion Interpolation systems, however, are easily switched off if you wish, and always will be. No need to worry.

Awesome, I thought it was mostly due to the refresh rate or the anti-judder tech they're adding to sets.

I'm glad this "Motion Interpolation" can be disabled. I think it looks hideous!

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by handisnacks

Awesome, I thought it was mostly due to the refresh rate or the anti-judder tech they're adding to sets.

I'm glad this "Motion Interpolation" can be disabled. I think it looks hideous!

You and everyone else who enjoys seeing films the way they were meant to look!

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by handisnacks

First let me start off by saying our TV's in our house only get use from games and movies (blu-ray). We don't watch standard TV very often, and if we do it's not enough to care about it's quality. Now when it comes to my movies I like to watch them as originally intended by the creators. This thread isn't about film grain, or DNR or anything like that (which are all handled on the film publishers or distributors end) but about motion blur and it's role, or lack thereof, in future electronics we buy in stores.

I've been watching a lot of these newer TV's in stores (mainly the new LED TV's) and I've come to the conclusion that I don't like watching movies without a certain amount of motion blur. With such a high refresh rate and extreme anti-judder, everything just looks "off" and it completely draws me out of the film. I'm not really sure how the market is going right now, but I'll be quite upset within several years I have no choice but to buy one of these TV's, since I won't be able to find older ones (with 60hz or 120hz refresh rates).

Of course my mind could possibly change as technology grows, but as of right now, I'm not fond of how the new TV's look. If anyone has one, I'd like to know if they come with the ability to disabled these "advanced" functions?

Wow and I was starting to think that I was the only one left thinking as you do. I to think that the newer tv's are starting to make movies look to "fake" or "cartoonish" or give them the "soap opera effect". Thats due in part to the anti judder technology and the 120hz and 240hz features that Sony, Samsung and others are putting into the tv's. To me this takes away from the look of the film as the director intended. But some like this "look" and some dont, I am one of those that dont like the look and am very happy with a 60hz tv which mine is. Yea it has noticeable judder from time to time but its hardly noticeable unless I look for it hard enough.

But again I was starting to feel that I was the only one who didnt like the look on how movies are presented on the 120hz and 240hz tv's.

[Rob J in WNY]

I have a Sony XBR4 LCD, and it's got a 120Hz refresh rate panel. I have the Motion Enhancer turned completely off, making the motion of 24p Blu-ray movies very cinematic. The 5:5 pulldown (even frame repetition) prevents the unnatural judder which 3:2 pulldown (60Hz) can induce, but it definitely produces cinematic motion, without any "soap opera" live-looking video.

Interpolated frames cannot always be perfectly rendered. Thus, motion artifacts produced by the process not only affect the edges of motion and can produce excessive moire, but also bring down the overall image quality. I personally discovered that with the Motion Enhancer turned off, the overall picture quality peaked nicely. I wouldn't have it any other way. Bye, bye, interpolated frames!

I would totally recommend a 120Hz TV to people who want to go with LCD. This way, they can get the even 5:5 pulldown for 24p source video. Any 120Hz TV allows for the shutting off of frame interpolation.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Wow and I was starting to think that I was the only one left thinking as you do. I to think that the newer tv's are starting to make movies look to "fake" or "cartoonish" or give them the "soap opera effect". Thats due in part to the anti judder technology and the 120hz and 240hz features that Sony, Samsung and others are putting into the tv's. To me this takes away from the look of the film as the director intended. But some like this "look" and some dont, I am one of those that dont like the look and am very happy with a 60hz tv which mine is. Yea it has noticeable judder from time to time but its hardly noticeable unless I look for it hard enough.

But again I was starting to feel that I was the only one who didnt like the look on how movies are presented on the 120hz and 240hz tv's.

No, it's not. As J6P stated above, it's due to Motion Interpolation. 120/240hz sets and anti-judder are an attempt at removing 3:2pulldown and motion blur due to slow-response sets.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by aramis109

No, it's not. As J6P stated above, it's due to Motion Interpolation. 120/240hz sets and anti-judder are an attempt at removing 3:2pulldown and motion blur due to slow-response sets.

Well whatever it may be it makes movies look fake to me. BUT that being said while at work today I was looking at a Samsung today 46inch and my, my, my she did look so pretty. God I am soooooo tempted. Its either the Sammy or the new Sony XBR9 that I will and must have. Yea I know one is 120hz and the other is 240hz but I just cant help myself. I feel that I have to go with either set because they both have me sold.

[wafi]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Well whatever it may be it makes movies look fake to me. BUT that being said while at work today I was looking at a Samsung today 46inch and my, my, my she did look so pretty. God I am soooooo tempted. Its either the Sammy or the new Sony XBR9 that I will and must have. Yea I know one is 120hz and the other is 240hz but I just cant help myself. I feel that I have to go with either set because they both have me sold.

Upgradetitis!

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by wafi

Upgradetitis!

LOL!!!!! Thats about it buddy.

[wafi]

Originally Posted by steve1971

LOL!!!!! Thats about it buddy.

Quench the urge....feed the hunger

[NuSoardGraphite]

I agree. Too much interpolation makes the video look fake. The motion is too smooth. The blurring that exists in current sets is a reasonable amount as even in real life, fast moving objects appear blurry to the naked eye.

That being said, these new sets are gorgeous and I would love to have one. The motion interpolation can be turned off or in some sets, tuned to specifications (so you can reduce judder without inducing serious SOE) so its not really a problem. It just looks that way in the stores. When you get it home the #1 rule is tweak, tweak then when you think it looks good...tweak it some more!

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite

I agree. Too much interpolation makes the video look fake. The motion is too smooth. The blurring that exists in current sets is a reasonable amount as even in real life, fast moving objects appear blurry to the naked eye.

Not if your eyes are following the object

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Not if your eyes are following the object

And in the movies, if the camera is following the fast moving object (which represents your eye following the object) then blur is reduced significantly as to be non-existant.