Jerky Blu Ray playback

[pewe]

I have an Acer Aspire 8930 and when I playback Bluray discs in the Acer software they are very jerky.

If I play back a dvd using the same software they play perfectly.

Can anyone suggest what the problem might be - or even better - a solution.

[CyberVisions]

Originally Posted by pewe

I have an Acer Aspire 8930 and when I playback Bluray discs in the Acer software they are very jerky.

If I play back a dvd using the same software they play perfectly.

Can anyone suggest what the problem might be - or even better - a solution.

There's a couple of things that cause this, but System Resource Management issues are usually the culprit. Even though your particular system has the necessary horsepower for BD playback, you can get lulled into a false sense of security with having what appears to be enough, or more than enough to handle a simple BD. Always remember that the more stuff the cram into the same amount of space, the more resources that stuff needs to run.

BD playback requires more system resources (Available RAM) than a typical DVD does. Your problem is consistent with a system that is low on available RAM and is using its hard drive as a virtual RAM device to make up the difference. The stuttering you see in your system/playback at this point is because the system is having a difficult time keeping up with the extreme demands being placed on its RAM sources. It's even more common in systems with only one hard drive - ALWAYS get a system that has 2 internal drives - there is nothing gained or saved by just getting one, and the thought that "I'll get another one later" usually doesn't happen very fast, if ever.

It's important to understand the difference between System Available RAM and your system's Overall RAM, even in a system that might appear to have enough RAM and capability. For example, a typical 32 bit system will have its RAM max'd at 3-4gb (only being able to see 3gb though), and a 64 bit system will have anywhere from 4-16gb, depending on notebook or desktop. Regardless of the amount of overall system RAM, as each system process or program is started, a certain amount of RAM is allocated for its operation. However, when that same process/program stops, the amount of RAM allocated for it is not returned to the system in the same amount - it's always less. Over time, if you don't restart/reboot your system or have a RAM manager to reset/reclaim that lost RAM, your System Resources reach critical levels, and everything starts slowing down, and may even freeze the system temporarily. At this point, AVAILABLE RAM (the RAM that is currently available for system process/program use) has reached a level that it cannot sustain system process requests, so it needs another storage source, which becomes a virtual RAM space on your hard drive.

There are different ways of dealing with this. First and most obvious is to shut down any unneeded processes/programs when you're playing back BD content. It's always best when you have a BD player to have your RAM at its maximum capability (as much as your system can take and use) though for any system it still comes down to process management. Even a 64 bit system that has 4gb RAM can have this problem if its processes/programs are using up too much available RAM and there's not enough left for BD playback.

For 32 bit systems you can get a RAM Manager/Reclamation program to reclaim RAM that's been used and not returned by the system. On my older 32 bit systems I've used a program called Memory Boost for years to get by not having a full amount of RAM, or at least until I was able to upgrade it. MB allows you to monitor your system's available RAM amount and see in real-time when it gets to critical levels. When it does, it then lets you reclaim part or all of the RAM that has been used and not returned. It also has a feature (Detective) that allows you to view which processes are running and which are the worst RAM offenders, similar to the Task Manager, but MB tells you what the process or program belongs to so you can make sure you don't shut down something necessary for system operation.

Something else that can cause this type of problem is an active Anti-Virus program that's set to automatically scan all files. Since a BD movie is just a large file, the AV program reads it in "waves", causing a stuttering effect if the system is too slow to keep up, which is most. Make sure your AV program is shut down or adjust its settings for passive scanning.

It's also a good practice to turn off your Wireless as well if you're trying to access BD Live content and you're using an older network (B, G, etc.) Router / Adapter combination. Or just don't activate the BDL feature to begin with.

Make sure your lasers are clean as well - use a good lens cleaner, and keep it blown out regularly. Remember that BD lasers are different than standard DVD lasers - if you open your drive tray you'll see 2, a red and blue. It's possible for one to get dirtier than the other, but for your problem I'd bet on resource issues rather than a dirty laser. Every system has resource management issues - it makes no difference what your RAM configuration is, or how fast your system is, eventually your Available RAM will get to critical levels if you don't reboot often. For a 4gb 64 bit system, it might take a bit longer (maybe 2-3 days) for it to get to critical levels, but it will happen.

Finally, the other big culprit that can contribute to this type of problem extreme disk fragmentation. The standard Windows defrag utility does not do enough to keep the HD defragmented for optimum performance. For one, it cannot (like most defrag utilities) perform boot-sector, Paging/Index file defragmentation, since those must be performed while 'Windows isn't running, and those programs need Windows in order to run - Catch 22. Those of us in the IT community (at least those of us who've been around a while) use a program called Diskeeper to defrag drives. The current version runs as a background process as well as a program, so you don't even know it's running as it constantly defrags your drives. It also doesn't use any resources to speak of to run either.

There's a good Windows Desktop Gadget that lets you view your CPU / Available RAM levels on a meter display - you might consider adding it so you can see visually what I'm referring to. Or install Memory Boost. MB doesn't work well on a 64 bit system, but is great for 32 bit systems. Check out these links:

System Resource Management
Memory Boost

[pewe]

Wow CyberV - what a detailed response.

First let me thank you for taking the time to go in to such detail.

I was sort of thinking that it may be a resource problem as playing DVD is not a problem, and I was wondering if BRay required greater resource to play due to the shear volume of data needing to be accessed.

My Laptop has 4MB ram, so I am hoping that is not an issue.

Acer (along with other manufacturers) tend to add all sorts of rubbish to their PC's and it could well be that there is a fair bit of cleaning up to do to optimise performance.

I also take your point about AntiVirus software possibly causing an issue.

Over the next few days I will try some of your suggestions and see what - if any - improvements I can make.

I am hoping I can resolve the problem as the Acer 8930 is designed for BluRay with 1920 x 1080 screen resolution, A BR player and an HDMI output, and I bought it with this in mind (to use as a BR player with our HD TV).

Thanks again for your input, and I'll post back how I get on over the next few days.

[SpoonMaN]

wow that was quite a write up. but sorry to say that the amount of ram your system has, has very little to do with how well you can play BD's.

the main thing is the CPU and/or the video chip and how well they can decode the movie. an older even dual core cpu (such as older athlon 64 x2's) can be overwhelmed by a bluray without the help of a good decoding video card/chip.

as for the advice about the OS "Over time, if you don't restart/reboot your system or have a RAM manager to reset/reclaim that lost RAM, your System Resources reach critical levels, and everything starts slowing down, and may even freeze the system temporarily." where did you come up with this? maybe this was the case back in the windows 98 days but with XP and for damn sure vista this is not the case.

[pewe]

I ran memboost and according to this my memory useage is normally less than 25%, and if I close down all but necessary processes get down to about 8%, but BD are still jerky - so it appears memory is not the problem.

The laptop is a new Acer Aspire 8930 which has an Intel Core 2 P7350 2HZ and the graphics are Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT. According to Acer is designed for BluRay so I am still confused as to why I get the jerking problem.

[BLindsay]

Originally Posted by pewe

I ran memboost and according to this my memory useage is normally less than 25%, and if I close down all but necessary processes get down to about 8%, but BD are still jerky - so it appears memory is not the problem.

The laptop is a new Acer Aspire 8930 which has an Intel Core 2 P7350 2HZ and the graphics are Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT. According to Acer is designed for BluRay so I am still confused as to why I get the jerking problem.

one little trick i have seen work from time to time. open up task manager find the program on that list that is being used to pla your blu's and set the prioriy of that application a little higher (Above Normal) that will ensure its getting first dibs at the resources

[dadkins]

Be sure *NO* power management is happening when playing a BD.
Full Power!

[SpoonMaN]

that is a very nice laptop and should have 0 problems playing a BD.

first off make sure that all of the drivers (video, sound and chipset) are up to date. if this does not help i would suspect the software being used. I have had nothing but great luck with arcsoft totalmedia theater 2 and 3 so give the trial a shot.

[CyberVisions]

Originally Posted by SpoonMaN

wow that was quite a write up. but sorry to say that the amount of ram your system has, has very little to do with how well you can play BD's.

the main thing is the CPU and/or the video chip and how well they can decode the movie. an older even dual core cpu (such as older athlon 64 x2's) can be overwhelmed by a bluray without the help of a good decoding video card/chip.

as for the advice about the OS "Over time, if you don't restart/reboot your system or have a RAM manager to reset/reclaim that lost RAM, your System Resources reach critical levels, and everything starts slowing down, and may even freeze the system temporarily." where did you come up with this? maybe this was the case back in the windows 98 days but with XP and for damn sure vista this is not the case.

No offense my friend, but you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. In one statement you say RAM has little to do with BD playback, then in the next say that CPU performance has a lot. CPU performance and RAM utilization go hand in hand - if the system's available RAM is low because the system hasn't been restarted for some time, the CPU has to work at a higher load to make up for the lost RAM. Since you obviously didn't understand it the first time around, I won't waste my time trying to re-explain the obvious. Your entire statement shows that you do not understand the concept or the relationship between RAM, CPU, and BD playback, System Resources, and RAM leakage.

It doesn't make any difference if you have an older system or brand new system. As for where I got it, aside from it being general knowledge for someone like myself with 35 years in the business, if you knew anything about Resource Management and how systems manage RAM, you wouldn't have even asked the question. Computers do not give back the same amount of RAM that is allocated for a given process or program - systems always give back less, creating a continual loss of available RAM for processes and programs that are starting up. If you do not reboot your system or have a program to reclaim the lost RAM, your system's available RAM will reach critical levels and your processes will slow down or freeze. It doesn't make any difference if it's a 32 bit system or 64 bit system like mine with 8gb of RAM. With more RAM it just takes longer for it to happen, but it will happen. For example, I rarely shut my HDX notebook down - I usually put it in Sleep or Hibernate. Over about 4 days if I don't reboot, my Available RAM levels get to critical, and my CPU starts working at around 90% to keep up for the loss of available RAM.

The technical term for this is RAM or Memory Leakage - you can read more about it on Wiki at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

Keep "Tribal Knowledge" and assumption where it belongs, and leave the technical explanations to Support Professionals. I'm sorry, but my tolerance level is extremely low for BS.

[BLindsay]

Originally Posted by CyberVisions

No offense my friend, but you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. In one statement you say RAM has little to do with BD playback, then in the next say that CPU performance has a lot. CPU performance and RAM utilization go hand in hand - if the system's available RAM is low because the system hasn't been restarted for some time, the CPU has to work at a higher load to make up for the lost RAM. Since you obviously didn't understand it the first time around, I won't waste my time trying to re-explain the obvious. Your entire statement shows that you do not understand the concept or the relationship between RAM, CPU, and BD playback, System Resources, and RAM leakage.

It doesn't make any difference if you have an older system or brand new system. As for where I got it, aside from it being general knowledge for someone like myself with 35 years in the business, if you knew anything about Resource Management and how systems manage RAM, you wouldn't have even asked the question. Computers do not give back the same amount of RAM that is allocated for a given process or program - systems always give back less, creating a continual loss of available RAM for processes and programs that are starting up. If you do not reboot your system or have a program to reclaim the lost RAM, your system's available RAM will reach critical levels and your processes will slow down or freeze. It doesn't make any difference if it's a 32 bit system or 64 bit system like mine with 8gb of RAM. With more RAM it just takes longer for it to happen, but it will happen. For example, I rarely shut my HDX notebook down - I usually put it in Sleep or Hibernate. Over about 4 days if I don't reboot, my Available RAM levels get to critical, and my CPU starts working at around 90% to keep up for the loss of available RAM.

The technical term for this is RAM or Memory Leakage - you can read more about it on Wiki at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

Keep "Tribal Knowledge" and assumption where it belongs, and leave the technical explanations to Support Professionals. I'm sorry, but my tolerance level is extremely low for BS.

funny cause i can leave my system running for months at a time with no issues....in fact the only time i EVER reboot is for updates, other then that im up 24/7

[SpoonMaN]

i fully understand what a memory leak is, i am a computer lab tech at microsoft and help oversee a few THOUSAND computers. pewe's problem has NOTHING to do with a memory issues and it has been right about 10 years since i have used a memory manager on any system i have built for myself, friends or companys i have worked for.

to take a quote directly from the memoryboost page you linked to "On Windows NT-based systems (Windows NT, 2000 and XP), system resources are just as important but the system can expand them as necessary. You effectively cannot run out of system resources on Windows NT-based systems.

[CyberVisions]

Originally Posted by pewe

I ran memboost and according to this my memory useage is normally less than 25%, and if I close down all but necessary processes get down to about 8%, but BD are still jerky - so it appears memory is not the problem.

The laptop is a new Acer Aspire 8930 which has an Intel Core 2 P7350 2HZ and the graphics are Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT. According to Acer is designed for BluRay so I am still confused as to why I get the jerking problem.

You never mentioned if you had the same problem with more than one BD. If you haven't yet, try newer and older BD's to see if you have the problem. If you haven't already done so, you should also go to the Acer Support Site and download and install the most current drivers for your GPU, BD-ROM and your BD playback software. DO NOT use updates from anywhere other than Acer - non-certified drivers can cause problems, and if you don't know how to identify and deal with it you can go down a long road of misery. Contrary to "tribal belief", OEM drivers aren't the same as what is released for the components in your system. Those components are specifically licensed for use in your particular system, and their drivers are modified for those components' use in your system design.

You need to logically narrow down the problem by process of elimination. First, disconnect any peripherals you have connected to your system, including any external drives, then try it and see if it still happens.

If you haven't done so already, you should try doing a driver reinstall on both your GPU and your BD player. Go to your Device Manager, find them, click on them and select Uninstall, then reboot your system to reinstall. It could be something as simple as a corrupted driver.

Going through the manuals for your system, I noticed it already has a RAM Reclamation/Optimization tool installed on it already. It's part of Acer ePerformance Management - it lets you increase RAM, CPU and Network Optimization. Go to Start > (All) Programs > Empowering Technology > Acer ePerformance Management

If you look at the RAM Optimization tool, the intervals are actually for reclaiming lost RAM from the system. One thing I've noticed about Vista is that Microsoft added a lot of functions that you previously had to buy utilities like MB to perform. You can download that manual here:


Right-click on your Desktop and open your NVidia Control Panel, then open the 3D Settings section. Under "Adjust Image Settings", make sure that 'Let the 3D Application Decide" is checked.

Under the Display heading, click on Change Resolution, and make sure that 60hz is checked for the Refresh Rate. If the Refresh is set wrong it'll give you a dizzy feeling, but not the kind of stuttering you're referring to.

Go to your Control Panel, then click on Performance Information, then Advanced Tools, then Reliability and Performance Monitor. Under Monitoring Tools, click on Reliability Monitor, then look at the System Stability history. If you have any software or hardware problems, it'll show up as an icon on the chart.

You can get a similar feel for how much Available RAM you have by opening your Task Manager, then go to the Performance Tab. Under the Physical Memory list, you'll see Total, Cached and Free - the Free amount of RAM is the amount of Available RAM you actually have available for running processes.

Go to the Options link on the Task Manager Menu, then select Always on Top.
After that, click on View, then Update Speed, and select Highest. Click on CPU, and select One Graph for all CPU's.

With your Task Manager still running, start up a BD playback, then keep an eye on the Performance tab and the CPU Usage History. Watch for spikes in percentage, and see if you can correlate it with a stutter. If you see it happen, then click on the Processes tab and look for an intermittent process that starts and stops. Click on the Memory header so that the highest RAM using processes are at the top of the list.

Try those - keep an eye on the CPU load when it stutters. If it's resource related for any reason, the CPU load will show it. If not, then it's likely either driver, software or firmware related.

[dadkins]

@ CyberVisions:
I have a VGN-AR190G.
It is the first BD enabled laptop sold in the US.
It came from the factory with 1(one)GB of RAM.
It played BDs fine.
I upped it to 2GB of RAM
It still plays BDs fine.

I'm no expert, but I cannot imagine that it is magical and it is the only machine on the planet that can play BDs with 1GB of RAM.

[Thesilversurfer]

i am also experiencing jerky playback with blu-ray movies...my pc is brand new and has been back to the shop 3 times and they cant find out why its doing it..
i am running a 3.0ghz quad core intel cpu
4 gig a memory
512 video card
windows xp 32 bit
1tb hard drive
the lastest pioneer blu-ray burner
with all the lastest drivers for all the hardware
and this pc was built with the shops recomendations to run blu-ray movies
i have tryed early blu-ray releases and the lastest releases and 50% of my movies skip and lag all over the place.

any ideas out there greatly apreciated

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by Thesilversurfer

i am also experiencing jerky playback with blu-ray movies...my pc is brand new and has been back to the shop 3 times and they cant find out why its doing it..
i am running a 3.0ghz quad core intel cpu
4 gig a memory
512 video card
windows xp 32 bit
1tb hard drive
the lastest pioneer blu-ray burner
with all the lastest drivers for all the hardware
and this pc was built with the shops recomendations to run blu-ray movies
i have tryed early blu-ray releases and the lastest releases and 50% of my movies skip and lag all over the place.

any ideas out there greatly apreciated

What player software are you using?

[Thesilversurfer]

Originally Posted by dadkins

What player software are you using?

at first i was trying cyberlink powerdvd 8
and then i read the The Ultimate BLU-RAY player software faceoff
and thought i would try ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater to see if it made a difference...not a bit...the sound is terrible and the movie lagged to the point it was unwatchable....the first movie i tried was rougue assisin...and then casino royale,the bank job all were terrible to watch.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Thesilversurfer

at first i was trying cyberlink powerdvd 8
and then i read the The Ultimate BLU-RAY player software faceoff
and thought i would try ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater to see if it made a difference...not a bit...the sound is terrible and the movie lagged to the point it was unwatchable....the first movie i tried was rougue assisin...and then casino royale,the bank job all were terrible to watch.

What video card model do you have onboard?

[Baker1000]

Originally Posted by Thesilversurfer

at first i was trying cyberlink powerdvd 8
and then i read the The Ultimate BLU-RAY player software faceoff
and thought i would try ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater to see if it made a difference...not a bit...the sound is terrible and the movie lagged to the point it was unwatchable....the first movie i tried was rougue assisin...and then casino royale,the bank job all were terrible to watch.

I found TMT terrible too. Perhaps it was because it was the trial version, but the picture quality was awful compared to PowerDVD. The trial had no sound due to Dolby requesting they remove compatibility from it. WinDVD just doesn't even support Blu-ray playback with their trial version. What's the point in that? No way am I paying out for the full version only to find it doesn't play BDs very well. I stuck with PowerDVD, but I still get jumps in the sound here and there. Cyberlink told me they will release a patch to fix it soon.

[BLindsay]

Originally Posted by prerich

What video card model do you have onboard?

+1 ive seen some pretty shady "512MB" video cards so im also curious as to what exact model it is

[silverscreen]

finally fixed the issued...sorry about taking a long time to reply...been away.
the problem i was having was a conflict between my sound card and my graphics card...the hdmi port on my graphics card was trying to run the sound and my sound card was also trying to run the sound...all i had to do was shut the hdmi sound off and problem fixed...hopefully this helps other people out there....rock on.