what is the kuro of projectors?

[stobbart]

We all know that the kuro is the best plasma but what is considered the best projector in terms of picture quality and black levels? Also one that is quiet to boot would definatly find a nice place if it was 1080P. Cost around $5000 limit. Thank you.

[CollinViegas]

JVC RS-20, can be had for $5K if you look around

[cembros]

funny you ask because there is a kuro projector
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...liteProjectors

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by CollinViegas

JVC RS-20, can be had for $5K if you look around

A properly calibrated RS-20 is the Kuro of projectors...no doubt about it.

[cembros]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

A properly calibrated RS-20 is the Kuro of projectors...no doubt about it.

the kuro elite projector is really just a rs-20 in disguise

[CollinViegas]

Originally Posted by cembros

funny you ask because there is a kuro projector
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...liteProjectors

That model from pioneer is a rebadged JVC RS2, It is discontinued and not up to par with the RS20 at all...

[CollinViegas]

Originally Posted by cembros

the kuro elite projector is really just a rs-20 in disguise

It is an RS2 in disguise, the RS20 is a much upgraded version based on the same platform.

[stobbart]

how well does it handle 24fps is there jitter at all?

[cembros]

Originally Posted by CollinViegas

It is an RS2 in disguise, the RS20 is a much upgraded version based on the same platform.

yes it seems i was mistaken, its the rs2 not the rs20, anyway i saw the kuro projector in action and it is beautifull

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by stobbart

We all know that the kuro is the best plasma but what is considered the best projector in terms of picture quality and black levels? Also one that is quiet to boot would definatly find a nice place if it was 1080P. Cost around $5000 limit. Thank you.

Now, this is largely a moot point because of your budget, but if you start talking about "best projector in terms of picture quality and black level", you're not going to get a undisputed winner.

In terms of pure on-off measurable performance, the JVC RS-20 is the current top dog amongst digitals. However, that doesn't always translate into "best picture quality and black levels". Uniformity, sharpness, color accuracy, ANSI performance, etc. also play into picture quality.

Here's an example:



This is a comparison of black level reproduction between the Sim2 Lumis on the left and the RS-20 on the right. Now, there is some light in the image so this may be a better measure of ANSI performance than pure on/off. But, which image has "better blacks"? You might not expect these results considering the Lumis measures about 28000:1 whereas the RS-20 measures about 45000:1 or so. Uniformity is clearly still an issue with the RS-20, although it is much improved compared to the RS-1 which frequently had the infamous "bright corners".

Now obviously, this is comparing two projectors that are vastly different in price; but the point is that you just can't look at a single measure like on/off contrast, and determine "best picture quality and black levels".

At 5k, the RS-20 should definitely be considered. But I would also look at Planar's 8150 and Marantz's 15s2 at that price range. The measurables should serve as a guide, but your eyes should make the final decision.

[tilallr1]

Personally own the Pioneer FPJ1 and think overall it is the best quality projector I have ever seen. Also got it for $3000, since Pioneer has dumped them (They are no longer making them or any other projector). They are exactly the same as the RS2, but rumours say they are some very minor improvements on the FPJ1 over the RS2.

For the price and performance, if you can still get one of these projectors for the price I paid, I would get it. For the $2000 price difference of the model up I don't think the RS20 was worth it to me.

Also, regarding blacks, I think the image above is wrong big time. I see black levels like the first image. I think that was an uncalibrated RS2 above. Calibrated, this projector is pretty much the same for blacks as the RS20 and delivers a cinema feel like no other.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Personally own the Pioneer FPJ1 and think overall it is the best quality projector I have ever seen. Also got it for $3000, since Pioneer has dumped them (They are no longer making them or any other projector). They are exactly the same as the RS2, but rumours say they are some very minor improvements on the FPJ1 over the RS2.

For the price and performance, if you can still get one of these projectors for the price I paid, I would get it. For the $2000 price difference of the model up I don't think the RS20 was worth it to me.

Also, regarding blacks, I think the image above is wrong big time. I see black levels like the first image. I think that was an uncalibrated RS2 above. Calibrated, this projector is pretty much the same for blacks as the RS20 and delivers a cinema feel like no other.

No offense, but the picture above "is what it is". How can you disagree with it? It is a great example of what SEVERAL thousands of $$ will get you.

Also you "see black levels like the one on the left" because you don't have the real "one on the left" to compare it to.

And the RS20 has better blacks than the RS2.

That being said, I would have purchased the RS20 if it didnt cost twice what I paid for my projector, because it is one of the best available PJ's for the price point.

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Personally own the Pioneer FPJ1 and think overall it is the best quality projector I have ever seen. Also got it for $3000, since Pioneer has dumped them (They are no longer making them or any other projector). They are exactly the same as the RS2, but rumours say they are some very minor improvements on the FPJ1 over the RS2.

For the price and performance, if you can still get one of these projectors for the price I paid, I would get it. For the $2000 price difference of the model up I don't think the RS20 was worth it to me.

Also, regarding blacks, I think the image above is wrong big time. I see black levels like the first image. I think that was an uncalibrated RS2 above. Calibrated, this projector is pretty much the same for blacks as the RS20 and delivers a cinema feel like no other.

What do you think is wrong about the image? That is a direct comparison of two projectors in the same room, both D65 calibrated, onto the exact same screen (the screen is 7 meters wide), fed the exact same HDMI signal, performed by Wolfgang Meyer in Germany, who is very well respected amongst front projector videophiles-- he is an occasional contributor to cine4home, a very well respected european projector review site. The photo was shot using a Canon 5D Mark II using manual exposure settings.

The RS2 and RS20 both produce excellent blacks and the best on/off performance of the digital PJ's out there. You are understandably proud of your projector and the RS2/FPJ1 produces a great image, as does the RS20. I used to own an RS2 and am very familiar with its excellent performance. But understand that there is more to a projector's image quality than just the measurement of on/off. There is almost always a projector that produces a better image. Now, this is not exactly a fair comparison as the Sim2 Lumis is a nearly $40k projector, but those that have seen the Lumis and RS2/RS20 together uniformly agree that the Lumis throws a better image-- heck, it better for what it costs.

I am a Lumis owner, and I also understand that there are projectors out there that will throw an even better image (the DPI Titan and Barco DP-1200 come to mind). There are always trade offs with projectors, and none are "perfect" or "best". You just need to find the one that best fits your preferences in the budget you have allotted.

That having been said, I think the RS20 is an excellent choice in the $5k range. I also think the Planar 8150 is an excellent choice in that range.

[Trogdor2010]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Personally own the Pioneer FPJ1 and think overall it is the best quality projector I have ever seen. Also got it for $3000, since Pioneer has dumped them (They are no longer making them or any other projector). They are exactly the same as the RS2, but rumours say they are some very minor improvements on the FPJ1 over the RS2.

For the price and performance, if you can still get one of these projectors for the price I paid, I would get it. For the $2000 price difference of the model up I don't think the RS20 was worth it to me.

Also, regarding blacks, I think the image above is wrong big time. I see black levels like the first image. I think that was an uncalibrated RS2 above. Calibrated, this projector is pretty much the same for blacks as the RS20 and delivers a cinema feel like no other.

There is your problem, the Black you will preceive will be prefered to what displays you see, from what I heard, the Lumis C3X1080 that Brain has, has superior black levels than the JVC projectors, but tech specs will not tell the whole story. Yesterday, I got an Infocus X10 from Compusa.com (Dark chip 1 I do know that), and I was aware of the problems people have with the black level, although I did turn on the iris on a 96 inch screen in my room to get better blacks (will be watching on my 165 inch screen soon, but I may have to turn off the iris), if you don't watch alot of the high contrast deep black pictures of higher end projectors, you will be very pleased with it, and will perceive it as black (I know some will flame me on this), I watched I am Legend last night, and the nighttime sequences looked great (Much better than my X3) , but again they may look dark grey to some, but to me, it looks more close to blacks than any of the displays I own (I'm not rich like some of you though). But again if I did own a JVC projector, I would like it alot more than my Infocus X10.

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by Woody

No offense, but the picture above "is what it is". How can you disagree with it? It is a great example of what SEVERAL thousands of $$ will get you.

Also you "see black levels like the one on the left" because you don't have the real "one on the left" to compare it to.

And the RS20 has better blacks than the RS2.

That being said, I would have purchased the RS20 if it didnt cost twice what I paid for my projector, because it is one of the best available PJ's for the price point.

I was just stating my opinion from my own experience. In the end pictures can still be misleading at times. Ultimately, you should never buy based on any pictures. You need to see it first hand and judge it yourself. Especially, when spending thousands on dollars on something.

I still think for the price I paid and the quality of the projector its a steal. I know there will always be something better, but not at 3000 dollars there isn't. Or any price close at this time.

P.S. The RS20 has a bit better black level than the RS2, from side by side comparisons I performed before purchasing. It wasn't significant in my opinion to justify the huge cost difference though.

[CollinViegas]

The RS20 also has a CMS system, better quality optics and is ever so slightly brighter. the main draw back to the RS2 is that it cant be calibrated properly and colorspace is WAY off.

When I was test driving an RS2 in my theater I simply couldn't live with the poor color reproduction and I wasn't about to spend thousands on a processor just to get a CMS system back. I decided the VW60 was a much more accurate projector in the same price range.

If I was shopping right now, The RS20 is easily worth the mark up in price to me.

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by CollinViegas

The RS20 also has a CMS system, better quality optics and is ever so slightly brighter. the main draw back to the RS2 is that it cant be calibrated properly and colorspace is WAY off.

When I was test driving an RS2 in my theater I simply couldn't live with the poor color reproduction and I wasn't about to spend thousands on a processor just to get a CMS system back. I decided the VW60 was a much more accurate projector in the same price range.

If I was shopping right now, The RS20 is easily worth the mark up in price to me.

Absolutely, a deal breaker for a lot of people and yourself. The lack of CMS does suck. It only got corrected recently on the RS20, but was broken when I looked at it. They just recently patched it with a firmware fix.

Also, please note that some RS2's are better than others for color reproduction. It seemed to be a hit and miss with them. But the fact that you can't adjust it does suck.

I for one am extremely pleased with the color reproduction on the FPJ1 I own though.

[Swede]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

What do you think is wrong about the image? That is a direct comparison of two projectors in the same room, both D65 calibrated, onto the exact same screen (the screen is 7 meters wide), fed the exact same HDMI signal, ...

Well, that would do it.

Oh come on, that's just ugly. Making a comparison screenshot using a 7 METERS WIDE (!!) screen, and not even adding that little tidbit of information to the post with the comparison screenshots. I'm not even going to bring out my calculator to check how many inches that translates to

This is obviously just a "test" with the specific purpose of showing that the $40k something Sim2 projector is better, no matter what you have to do to to make that happen, and I'm pretty sure you are aware that the JVC RS20 is marketed as a home theater projector and not even a super-bright one at that, so it is HARDLY meant to be used for those kinds of ENORMOUS screen sizes.

Now please do the same comparison with a typical home theater 100" screen instead and get back to us

[tbizzle]

Lol Swede, always wondered about that as well. I read so many good things about that projector and was kinda shocked when I saw that comparison picture, until I read the 7 meters thing.... I'd love to see a picture of someone using that in their home with a 100-140" screen

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by Swede

Well, that would do it.

Oh come on, that's just ugly. Making a comparison screenshot using a 7 METERS WIDE (!!) screen, and not even adding that little tidbit of information to the post with the comparison screenshots. I'm not even going to bring out my calculator to check how many inches that translates to

This is obviously just a "test" with the specific purpose of showing that the $40k something Sim2 projector is better, no matter what you have to do to to make that happen, and I'm pretty sure you are aware that the JVC RS20 is marketed as a home theater projector and not even a super-bright one at that, so it is HARDLY meant to be used for those kinds of ENORMOUS screen sizes.

Now please do the same comparison with a typical home theater 100" screen instead and get back to us

Originally Posted by tbizzle

Lol Swede, always wondered about that as well. I read so many good things about that projector and was kinda shocked when I saw that comparison picture, until I read the 7 meters thing.... I'd love to see a picture of someone using that in their home with a 100-140" screen

Uhhh... that screenshot is of both the projectors projecting onto the same 7 meter screen, with the exact same video material, at the exact same time. Neither projector is being used to fill a 7 meter screen (neither one of them have the lumens horsepower to do so-- only a few projectors out there really can effectively). The projectors were set up so that they were projecting an identical sized image at 100" wide on that screen.

So what you see is what you've asked for...

The Sim2 is much brighter than the RS20, of course, at any given size. But this demonstration was a comparison of black levels between the two at an average screen size.