help choosing speaker wire

[Erman_94]

Okay, a friend of mine is now getting into the home theater game and needs to buy some speaker wire for his speakers. I thought I'd take this as an opportunity to upgrade mine as well.

I am currently running "Monster Standard THX SP THX Certified 16 Gauge" wire (I was ignorant at the time and had some sales rep at Future Shop trick me into buying Monster )

So needless to say I am looking to upgrade to something better.

I have read Crackinhedz sticky "Speakers 101" and the chart that shows appropriate gauge for distance.

What I have gotten out of all that (and correct me if I'm wrong) is the lower the gauge, the better.



I don't know how much good speaker wire is, but can you guys throw out some suggestions for some really HIGH QUALITY speaker wire(regardless of price)...I have aspirations of building a very dedicated home theater in 5 years, so it would be nice to use the same wires and at least cut some costs

If what you guys start suggesting is TOO expensive I'll let you know

Thanks...if anymore info is needed on my setup or my friends, please let me know

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

What I have gotten out of all that (and correct me if I'm wrong) is the lower the gauge, the better.

Not necessarily. A thick (low gauge) cable isn't necessarily a good one.

I don't know how much good speaker wire is, but can you guys throw out some suggestions for some really HIGH QUALITY speaker wire(regardless of price)...I have aspirations of building a very dedicated home theater in 5 years, so it would be nice to use the same wires and at least cut some costs

Very wise; what may be over kill for now will save you money in the long run. I'm a big fan of Nordost's products so I'll play it safe an recommend their sort-of entry level Blue Heaven speaker cables (I use their rather more expensive Frey, and am very happy with the result).

You should also check out Kimber Cable, Audioquest, and so on.


OK, this is where you say what I'm suggesting is TOO expensive! :-)

[Erman_94]

so what gauge would you suggest?

and also, i cant find the prices for those wires you linked to...any help?

[sterryo]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

I don't know how much good speaker wire is, but can you guys throw out some suggestions for some really HIGH QUALITY speaker wire(regardless of price)...I have aspirations of building a very dedicated home theater in 5 years, so it would be nice to use the same wires and at least cut some costs

If what you guys start suggesting is TOO expensive I'll let you know

well really expensive speaker wire can cost more per foot than all your existing equipment costs.
unless you are planning to invest $50k and up you won't be needing really expensive speaker wire. As you'll find out there are signifcantly varied opinions on the value of expensive wire and most people's ears are unable to discern differences, and a lot of speculation is that the higher the cost the greater the buyer WANTS to hear differences and the brain does the rest.
That said with most affordable equipment available today most any decent speakerwire will suffice. Monoprice sells a decent product at reasonable prices.
BTW the most expensive speakerwire that I have owned was Kimber Kable 8tc/4tc shotgun biwire cables which cost approx $35 per foot and I had 40 feet (35x40=$1400, which is on the cheap end of speakerwire) and when I replaced it with regular 14ga oxygen-free copper wires $.40 per foot, I and several audio friends could not hear a difference. Others may experience different results however the key is that you require very elite equipment all through your system before results are generally discernable.
Bottom-line looking at your existing equipment just go to Monoprice and save your hard earned cash for more blu-ray disks........

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

so what gauge would you suggest?

and also, i cant find the prices for those wires you linked to...any help?

i will let the speaker cable gods speak up on this one, but in regards to the speaker gauge, as mentioned, just because its bigger dont mean its better. you have to consider insulation, length of cable, and material used to call it a certain gauge. some cables would be rated 12 gauge, but would have a thicker amount of insulation around it, compared to a 'true' 12 gauge speaker wire.

in essence, id normally recommend 14 gauge for shorter runs, and 12 gauge for longer ones. personally, the 12 gauge is for stereophiles.

on a serious note, 16 is your starting point (mostly used for surrounds), then go all the way to 12 if needed.

you already have monster cables tho (although they arent the best out there), im just wondering, why double the expenses when you can use these for the moment? what gauge are they?

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

so what gauge would you suggest?

and also, i cant find the prices for those wires you linked to...any help?

I would suggest forgetting about the gauge! Anything better than zip cord, provided it is of sufficient quality will do the job.

I'm not sure what the list price on the Blue Heavens is. For a 2m pair, it's probably about $500 or $600, but you should be able to negotiate a better price with your dealer. Here in Canada, a 2m pair of Frey speaker cables is about $3125. Probably more than you planned to spend!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Last time I checked, which was a few weeks ago, a 3m pair of Nordost Blue Heaven retailed for $750, but that is MSRP. Any dealer who really wants your business will offer you a better price.

John

[Big Daddy]

I have to disagree with some of the posts above. A thicker speaker wire (low gauge number) from a manufacturer is always better than a thinner one from the same manufacturer.

Resistance is by far the most important specification of a speaker wire. Low-resistance speaker wire allows more of the amplifier's power to energize the loudspeaker's voice coil. Resistance is affected by three factors: conductivity, length, and thickness.

CONDUCTIVITY
Electrical conductance is a measure of how easily electricity flows along an element. Its units are Siemens, which is the inverse of Ohms. Electrical conductance is related to the materials' conductivity according to the following formula:

G = σ . (A/L)

where:

G = the electrical conductance (Siemens)
σ = the materials conductivity (Siemens/Meter), it is the inverse of the material's resistivity
A = the object's cross-sectional area (Meter ^2)
L = the length of the object (Meter)

Resistivity in Ohm per Meter
Silver: 1.6 x 10^-8
Copper: 1.7 x 10^-8
Gold: 2.4 x 10^-8
Aluminum or Aluminium: 2.7 x 10^-8

Electrical Conductivity (σ, Siemens/Meter) at 20 degrees (C)
Silver: 6.2 × 10^7, Highest electrical conductivity of any known metal
Copper: 6.0 × 10^7
Gold: 4.5 × 10^7, Gold is commonly used in electrical contacts
Aluminum: 3.8 × 10^7

LENGTH
If you double the length of a wire, you will double its resistance. This means that you will have to get a wire with better resistance or you will have to increase the power in order to get the same level of sound as the shorter wire.

THICKNESS (CROSS-SECTIONAL-AREA)
The resistance of a wire decreases as you increase its thickness (AWG, gauge number). The gauge number drops as the wire gets thicker. As a general rule, you should use thicker (lower gauge number) wires for longer distances. High-power car audio systems using 2-ohm speaker circuits require relatively thick cables.

Silver is a slightly better conductor and has a slightly lower resistance compared to the same gauge of copper wire. However, it costs a lot more and any advantage gained by using a better conductor can easily be compensated for with slightly thicker copper wire.

In addition to resistance, there is a phenomena in wires that is called skin effect. It simply means that electrons tend to migrate to the surface area of a wire. A thicker wire will have more surface area and as a result offers more room for electrons to travel.

I would not waste my money on expensive speaker wires. Buy good quality 12 gauge or 14 gauge speaker wire and you will be in pretty good shape. Use the following table as a guide.

[Erman_94]

whoa, ok guys i had no idea speaker wire could be so expensive

my current room is about 14' x 14' and im not looking to spend thousands on this speaker wire...id rather use that money to purchase my future SMX ProCurv projection screen for my dedicated HT room


so where can i get some cable that is better than what i have now, for a relatively decent price (id say $100-200 max for now, until i get that dedicated room)

should i be checking out monoprice and blue jeans cable?

if so could you guys provide some links, thanks

also, should i be getting 12 gauge? i know there is some conflicting theories so far in this thread on this...would 12 gauge be better than the 16 i have now?

[Big Daddy]

You should buy a pair of MIT Speaker Cables. The normal price is $20,100. They have a sale right now and you can get these cables for $19,950.

Alternatively, you can buy very good speaker cables from Monoprice at very low prices.

If you want your speaker cables to look like a snake, buy the Choseal 218 Speaker Cable for $79 from Pacific Valve.

12 gauge, 14 gauge, or 16 gauge depends on the length and impedance of the speaker. Please consult the table in my previous post.

[mdabb]

If your good with DIY, you can make your own high performance speaker cables. But if not and you are serious about wanting a quality system you shouldn't use crap wire/cables either. You should invest in quality for the long haul

Resistance is not the most important property for speaker cables and in fact the lower the gauge you use the higher the capacitance. Which will result in poor performance. There are ways around this !!!

Anyhow, some things to consider because cheap cables are garbage. I know I will take a beating for saying that, but it won't be the first.

First of all what makes up a cable will determine performance so..........

INSULATION
Insulation separates conductors, electrically and physically, within a cable.

ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS

• Primary Insulation
–Capacitance
–Attenuation
–Velocity of propagation
–Dielectric strength
–Working voltage
–Dielectric constant

CAPACITANCE

• A measure of the insulation’s ability to store electrical energy.
• Generally, lower capacitance (pf/ft) equates to higher performance cable.
• Expressed in picofarads per foot--and compounded linearly with length.

ATTENUATION

•A measure of the cable’s loss of electrical energy.
•Expressed in dB/unit length and is compounded linearly with length.

VELOCITY OF PROPOGATION

•The transmission speed of an electrical signal through a length of cable compared to the speed of light in a vacuum.
•Expressed as a percentage of the speed of light.
•High Velocity % = Lower losses

DIELECTRIC CONSTANT

•Electrical property used to determine Capacitance, Velocity of Propagation, Impedance and relative performance of the insulating material.
•Symbol: Er
•Very important for electronic cables
•Lower Er = Lower capacitance, Higher impedance, Lower attenuation.
•Air is best dielectric (Er = 1)
•Adding air to (foaming) any material lowers its dielectric constant.

DIELECTRIC STRENGTH

•The material’s ability to withstand voltage breakdown.
•Expressed in Volts (V) or Kilovolts (KV)

WORKING VOLTAGE

•Maximum voltage allowable by UL to be applied to the cable.
•Expressed as AC Volts (V) or Kilovolts (KV)


Just some of the things that make a cable good, there are other considerations as well depending on application. Your system is only as good as it's weakest link and that includes cables. You can have the best gear in the world, but use crap cables and...... well I'm sure you can guess the rest. There is such a thing as BS high-end cables, and there is such a thing as cheap crappy cables. Nobody should want crappy cables, even HDMI cables. You will want to match your cables up to the gear you are using. Plus lot's more things you may want to think about, but I might be typing all of this for nothing...................... hopefully not

[jlynn33]

IXOS Gamma Geometry Speaker Wire.

XHS806W

11AWG

* Ultra high strand count
* Patented Gamma Geometry™ for the lowest signal loss
* Well focused images with extended highs and bass

Simply AMAZING!!!

[Erman_94]

BD - im looking at the table and its a little confusing...i am looking under the 8 ohm column but all the recommendations say XX feet MAX...its the max thats getting me

doesnt this mean i could use 10, 12, 14 etc as long as it doesnt exceed the max recommendation? in that case...which would be best?

jlynn33 - do you have a link?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

BD - im looking at the table and its a little confusing...i am looking under the 8 ohm column but all the recommendations say XX feet MAX...its the max thats getting me

the maximum length any speaker should use is indicated in the chart. it shows you how long you CAN go, but we normally prefer the cable not to exceed 50feet, as mentioned.

this was also posted previously in BD's response and in his sticky...

LENGTH
If you double the length of a wire, you will double its resistance. This means that you will have to get a wire with better resistance or you will have to increase the power in order to get the same level of sound as the shorter wire.

also remember that even if speakers are rated at 8ohms, sometimes the resistance does dip from time to time. you can complicate that in another post.

doesnt this mean i could use 10, 12, 14 etc as long as it doesnt exceed the max recommendation? in that case...which would be best?

he already posted the answer to your question. may i suggest reading over it again.

I would not waste my money on expensive speaker wires. Buy good quality 12 gauge or 14 gauge speaker wire and you will be in pretty good shape. Use the following table as a guide.

[Erman_94]

thanks jomari, i read through his post and recommendation

i noticed there is no mention of 10 AWG, why is that?

also BD recommended 12 or 14 gauge, is there a noticeable difference between the two? which should i get?

thanks

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

thanks jomari, i read through his post and recommendation

i noticed there is no mention of 10 AWG, why is that?

also BD recommended 12 or 14 gauge, is there a noticeable difference between the two? which should i get?

thanks

personally, at 10awg, you wont notice much of an improvement. this is why most people prefer using 12 or 14 gauge.

at this point, you can go with 14, or 12 depending on length.

just get the 12 for chrissakes. knowing you'd probably beat yourself up if you got the 14, then end up with sleepless nights thinking if you should go bigger.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

BD - im looking at the table and its a little confusing...i am looking under the 8 ohm column but all the recommendations say XX feet MAX...its the max thats getting me

doesnt this mean i could use 10, 12, 14 etc as long as it doesnt exceed the max recommendation? in that case...which would be best?

jlynn33 - do you have a link?

Yes, you can use any gauge wire as long you do not exceed the max. As Jomari mentioned, since speakers impedances vary quite a bit with AC current, it doesn't hurt to use a lower gauge wire.

[Erman_94]

Originally Posted by jomari

personally, at 10awg, you wont notice much of an improvement. this is why most people prefer using 12 or 14 gauge.

at this point, you can go with 14, or 12 depending on length.

just get the 12 for chrissakes. knowing you'd probably beat yourself up if you got the 14, then end up with sleepless nights thinking if you should go bigger.

thanks...so any recommendations on where/what to purchase?

i have been reading the reviews for monoprice's speaker wires and many are saying the 12 gauge is very thin and more like 14 gauge

[jomari]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

thanks...so any recommendations on where/what to purchase?

i have been reading the reviews for monoprice's speaker wires and many are saying the 12 gauge is very thin and more like 14 gauge

the ONLY place to get speaker cables.

bluejeans

and to further answer your question, get the belden 5000 raw speaker cable.

the only decision you'd have to make is either to buy it in grey or white.

i like grey.

but leaves us to ask yet another question.

what about the surrounds? how will grey 'blend' in with the white walls i have?

get white then.

[Erman_94]

thanks jomari and BD


so there's really no noticeable difference between 10 and 12 gauge?

i just dont want to buy these again for a loooooong time and want to make sure 12 is better than 10 (oh boy, here comes the grilling...)