Thinner protection layer and a enclosure

[blackbit]

Hy,

Blue-ray discs, will have a 0.1mm protection layer against 0.6mm of DVD and HD-DVD discs. Will this mean that will be easier to scrach and loose information ?

I suggest to sony to create a new media with a enclosure to ensure protection of data, compatible with today DVDs.

One of the main problems of recordable media is that it eventually within the use, get scratched and you loose the data stored in it. I think, that is a critical specification ignored by designers of actual media.

What do you think ?

[AV_Integrated]

Scratches in discs don't damage the data and never have, the scratches make it tougher to optically read the discs which is the big issue.

Now, they definitely considered this, but they have also developed a new protective coating for the discs that significantly reduces the possibility of scratching. Far superior to what DVD current offers - or more accurately, doesn't offer.

This hard coat, when used (hopefully always) will help protect all discs in a way that is vastly superior to all other disc based formats.

The original Blu-Ray Disc players in Japan used a case you put the disc into, but this has been eliminate for the US release as NO cartridge type disc technology has been a success in the states.

Definitely is part of the thought process though, have no doubts on that.

[Jamesont]

I was originally very excited by blu-ray because it was going to be a cartridge technology. I don't understand why we can't develop media that is blu-ray capacity with the protection of minidisk. It seems silly to put all of the data on a disk to be able to be scratched easily without a hard casing.

[James Morrow]

Whilst Blu-Ray caddies (sealed and otherwise) do exist, most consumers want bare discs. Fortunately, TDK has developed a hard disc coating which makes Blu-Ray discs much more resilient than DVDs and CDs have been ...

[mlts22]

I'm also concerned about the thinner protection layer on BD media as opposed to DVD+R media. Scratch positioning is key here. If a scratch occurs on the bottom side (where the laser reads), its generally less of an issue than if the scratch occurs on the top (label) side, especially with CD-R media.

For doing backups, CD-R media would be one good scratch on the top away from losing good chunks of data, because the only thing separating the dye/reflective layer from the world was a painted on coating of lacquer. DVDs have better protection with the .6mm, especially that adhesives have gotten better and people are less worried that the two plastic pieces will separate.

I hope time will show that the 0.1mm layer is thick enough to prevent an accidental scrape on the top side of the disk from turning into a coaster. From what I've heard from people, I've heard that BD media will have a longer archival life than CD or DVD media, so I'm looking forward to picking up a Blu-ray drive for my daily Retrospect backup.

Originally Posted by blackbit

Hy,

Blue-ray discs, will have a 0.1mm protection layer against 0.6mm of DVD and HD-DVD discs. Will this mean that will be easier to scrach and loose information ?

I suggest to sony to create a new media with a enclosure to ensure protection of data, compatible with today DVDs.

One of the main problems of recordable media is that it eventually within the use, get scratched and you loose the data stored in it. I think, that is a critical specification ignored by designers of actual media.

What do you think ?

[Blue]

I don't think the thickness is a concern, but how it's protected. Blu Ray is currently about 6 x the capacity of DVD. Hence if a scratch were to damage for example 10 bits with DVD that would be 60 bits on BD. Initially BD was in a cartridge to protect it until TDK resolved that issue. If it's as good as claimed it will be better than what we currently have to put up with DVD.

[thunderhawk]

TDKs protection coating for BD: http://news.com.com/Try+scratching+t...3-5455621.html
Let's hope they incorporate it into most dics

[mlts22]

You are right about that, Blue, if BD media uses a very robust error correction system, similar how the ECC system was improved from CDs to DVDs, scratches on the bottom will be less of an issue.

I think time will tell, if the coating is armored enough to resist small scratches, and if scratches are causing read errors, there is enough redundancy to get around those, BD should be a robust format.

[hijak]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

as NO cartridge type disc technology has been a success in the states.

what about the UMD format? :P

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by hijak

what about the UMD format? :P

I don't think you can compare it to CD/DVD/BD, but you've got a point. VHS also had a cartridge.
However, I sure have heard questions about the size of the BDs, people prefer small discs.

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by hijak

what about the UMD format? :P

How about floppy disks?

[andyofield]

it is a pity that a perfectly sensible use of a caddie to give extra protection has to be dropped because the consumers of america are not used to such an outlandishly packaged product.
all optical storage media are liable to be degraded in the dometic environment by anything from knives to peanut butter. At the very least they should be sold with a clear plastic sleeve as the 50mb obling cd blanks are.

We are using these at www.businessdisk.biz as a sideline to make digital calling cards and also cd video singles as at www.mamarazzi.co.uk

What I would like to see is a BD version of this format for a whole BD video album. Ther shape is a novelty but one that can be kept in a pocket more easily than a round disk. Plus the audio track on any optical disk can be compressed to MP3 or 4.

Perhaps for medical records purposes the disks can be in caddies of different colours as the commercial constraints will not apply and where the need for protection of data is paramount.

[Patrick]

Do you always hold a peanut butter covered knife in the same hand you use to take a disc from the package to the Player? ha ha... Just take care of your disc and use some sense and they will be fine.

[crazy_neutrino]

Hi everybody!

Some more info about TDKs hard coating!

TDK Corporation has commenced shipments of mass-production samples of so-called bare-type.
Blu-ray Disc BD-R (write-once type)
BD-R25 (single-layer, 25GB)/ BD-R50 (dual-layer, 50GB)
Blu-ray Disc BD-RE (rewritable type)
BD-RE25 (single-layer, 25GB) / BD-RE50 (dual-layer, 50GB)
Main features of BD-R and BD-RE Blu-ray Disc
- Use of DURABIS 2 coating designed for bare Blu-Ray discs (lacquer + patented spin coating method, see EP 1609537, US 6667948)
- The BD-R write-once type utilizes a recording layer of inorganic material
- The rewritable BD-RE utilizes a high-sensitivity phase-change material

http://www.tdk.co.jp/teaah01/aah17200.htm

Best

[joel_reed]

I'll have to side with blackbit on this subject, because the caddie system has been proven to have much better protection than any layered coating in the past. If you still feel that the 'New and Improved' layered protection would do the trick, would you not have to ask yourself that a 'New and improved' caddie would be twice as good? It has already proven it's scratch resistance capabilities in the past, (Minidisks, Floppy Disks, Etc) so if they simply improve in other areas such as parts durability it would prove to be the ultimate system!

[Knight-Errant]

Makes me wonder if it's too expensive / potentially alienating to the userbase.

Though I'm sure early adopters would go for caddies (I wouldn't mind) I wonder what the attitude of the uninformed casual consumer would be ultimately?

[Chris]

That they will be more scracth resisinatant that is major problem that I have with DVD's today is they get scrated and don't play well. If the blu-ray format can limit that problem they will really take of.

[suprmallet]

For everyone who wants caddies:

Yes, caddies would provide superior protection. Americans on the whole don't want them, however. Americans = $$$. Thus, no caddies. The end.

[joel_reed]

Good thing I'm not American then, because I would love the Caddie System! I know the companies out there are just interested in making money, and the customers are mainly suckers when it comes to these things. (Sad but true) Take a look at how effective minidiscs are and think about how great it would be to have the same thing with your Movie files. How can you deny duch a benificial thing?

[Psiweaver]

caddies are cool though.