Batman Returns Darker than Batman? - Blu-ray Forum

MEHEARTJC · 11-13-2009, 02:37 PM

In one of his interviews, Tim Burton mentioned that some people will complain that Batman Returns is a lot darker than the first Batman, and yet other people see the first film as the darker one.

Which do you think? Batman Returns feels darker to me. The Joker was having fun in the first one, but the Pengiun is just so ugly, miserable and yelling all the time.

CaptainYoda · 11-13-2009, 02:54 PM

I think the second one is darker. Penguins scheme was to kill children at christmastime.

Steve · 11-13-2009, 03:07 PM

I thought Batman Returns was considerably darker than Batman.

TTC1984 · 11-13-2009, 03:17 PM

Darker, yes. Better, no.

Q? · 11-13-2009, 03:23 PM

Who in their right mind would say the first one is darker?

Blu-Malibu2009 · 11-13-2009, 03:27 PM

Batman Returns is much darker both visually and thematically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q!

Who in their right mind would say the first one is darker?

That is a good question, although I suppose it comes down to a subjective opinion just like everything else with film critique. Warner Brothers clearly tampered with Batman in an effort to make it as mainstream as possible, although it was still much darker than the studio's preferred version of the character (Batman Forever, Batman & Robin). Burton and his team definitely fought to make it as dark as they could, but there were still obvious signs of studio tampering. The inclusion of Prince music was a cash grab on their part for instance. I like the Prince music, but it's pretty obvious why it was included. Another example of their tampering is the difference in the Joker's appearance between Burton's preliminary drawings of the character and the final version of it in the film. His preliminary drawings were much cooler and scarier looking. The studio told him to tone it down for the final version. Here is Burton's drawing:

Mike53421 · 11-13-2009, 03:50 PM

Watched it again a couple of years ago, and some point, I think when Penguin bit off that dude's nose I noticed how much darker it was than the first haha.

Afrobean · 11-13-2009, 03:51 PM

That art of the "Joker" is patently bad. They nailed the look of the Joker for what they were aiming for, while they miserably missed the mark on Penguin.

I say, Burton having greater creative control isn't necessarily a good thing. I can get behind the concept of the Catwoman costume, but I can never get behind his take on Penguin. Totally wrong.

That "Joker" almost looks like Scarecrow. Just... terrible.

Blu-Malibu2009 · 11-13-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrobean

That art of the "Joker" is patently bad. They nailed the look of the Joker for what they were aiming for, while they miserably missed the mark on Penguin.

I say, Burton having greater creative control isn't necessarily a good thing. I can get behind the concept of the Catwoman costume, but I can never get behind his take on Penguin. Totally wrong.

That "Joker" almost looks like Scarecrow. Just... terrible.

Lemme guess, not a fan of Nolan's Joker either? I'm fine with them taking some liberties although to an extent I do agree on the Penguin. I would prefer a normal human (short guy who dresses really nice and is a black market arms dealer for instance) instead of a freak. But DeVito was great in the role.

ZX_VRT · 11-13-2009, 04:01 PM

that picture of the joker looks like something my 4 year old cousin drew up.
the joker in the dark knight looked pretty cool,

Q? · 11-13-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTUBatfan2008

Batman Returns is much darker both visually and thematically.

That is a good question, although I suppose it comes down to a subjective opinion just like everything else with film critique. Warner Brothers clearly tampered with Batman in an effort to make it as mainstream as possible, although it was still much darker than the studio's preferred version of the character (Batman Forever, Batman & Robin). Burton and his team definitely fought to make it as dark as they could, but there were still obvious signs of studio tampering. The inclusion of Prince music was a cash grab on their part for instance. I like the Prince music, but it's pretty obvious why it was included. Another example of their tampering is the difference in the Joker's appearance between Burton's preliminary drawings of the character and the final version of it in the film. His preliminary drawings were much cooler and scarier looking. The studio told him to tone it down for the final version. Here is Burton's drawing: (removed the pic)

I would have loved to see the first Batman without Warners tampering, interesting concept of the joker in my opinion...
Yeah, there was no real good reason for Prince's music other than marketing and whatnot

KingLeonidas300 · 11-13-2009, 04:21 PM

Batman Returns has my vote. Love this movie, one of my favorite blu's

Blu-Malibu2009 · 11-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLeonidas300

Batman Returns has my vote. Love this movie, one of my favorite blu's

It is an excellent transfer. The production values hold up very well even 17 years after the fact. Blu-ray really does a great job of showing off the excellent art direction and cinematography in this movie.

Lepidopterous · 11-13-2009, 04:29 PM

From the thread title I thought you meant Batman's returning darker than ever. After TDK I don't know how that's possible, with Bale's exaggerated growls.

SpaceDog · 11-13-2009, 04:43 PM

Batman Returns is definitely more Burtonesque than the first one. It has a fairly drastic tonal shift from the first film. I love it. As a sequel, it plays off the original just enough, but succeeds as an entity of its own.

The dark humor, particularly between Catwoman and Batman is priceless.

I'd have paid good money to see a third Burton Batman film. It wasn't meant to be though.

Jmills · 11-13-2009, 04:44 PM

I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the growl I didn't even notice it and felt it worked well with Batman.

Blu-Malibu2009 · 11-13-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I'd have paid good money to see a third Burton Batman film. It wasn't meant to be though.

Yeah, WB forced him out in favor of their campfest "vision" of the character.

jadedeath · 11-13-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTUBatfan2008

Lemme guess, not a fan of Nolan's Joker either? I'm fine with them taking some liberties although to an extent I do agree on the Penguin. I would prefer a normal human (short guy who dresses really nice and is a black market arms dealer for instance) instead of a freak. But DeVito was great in the role.

I agree with this, if they had left Burton's Joker alone, it would have been pretty close to Nolan's Joker.

Logan

jadedeath · 11-13-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmills

I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the growl I didn't even notice it and felt it worked well with Batman.

Most of what Batman said didn't make it through my "Christian Bale growl translator" same with Transformers, if you have to digitize a voice to the point that you can't tell whenever whatever {or whoever} is talking is saying... you're doing something wrong.

Logan

Blu-Malibu2009 · 11-13-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I agree with this, if they had left Burton's Joker alone, it would have been pretty close to Nolan's Joker.

Logan

I'm not sure where Burton stands on the whole permawhite vs. makeup issue. I think the Joker's origin in Batman was dictated by the studio. I haven't ever seen him comment on which version he would prefer, but that is a visual issue rather than personality issue. I do think that the character's personality would have been creepier if Burton was allowed to apply his own vision.

11-13-2009, 02:37 PM	#1
MEHEARTJC Expert Member Member since:Aug 2009	Batman Returns Darker than Batman? In one of his interviews, Tim Burton mentioned that some people will complain that Batman Returns is a lot darker than the first Batman, and yet other people see the first film as the darker one. Which do you think? Batman Returns feels darker to me. The Joker was having fun in the first one, but the Pengiun is just so ugly, miserable and yelling all the time.

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11-13-2009, 02:54 PM	#2
CaptainYoda Power Member Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Temescal Valley, CA 4K collection:49 Blu-ray collection:371	I think the second one is darker. Penguins scheme was to kill children at christmastime.

11-13-2009, 03:07 PM	#3
Steve Blu-ray Knight Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:May 2008 Location:Anna, TX 4K collection:128 Blu-ray collection:416 Trading Score:41	I thought Batman Returns was considerably darker than Batman.

11-13-2009, 03:17 PM	#4
TTC1984 Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2009 Location:Vegas Blu-ray reviews:34 Trading Score:41	Darker, yes. Better, no.

11-13-2009, 03:23 PM	#5
Q? Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Nuuk, Greenland Blu-ray collection:168	Who in their right mind would say the first one is darker?

11-13-2009, 03:50 PM	#7
Mike53421 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Mississauga, ON Blu-ray collection:40	Watched it again a couple of years ago, and some point, I think when Penguin bit off that dude's nose I noticed how much darker it was than the first haha.

11-13-2009, 03:51 PM	#8
Afrobean Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:-	That art of the "Joker" is patently bad. They nailed the look of the Joker for what they were aiming for, while they miserably missed the mark on Penguin. I say, Burton having greater creative control isn't necessarily a good thing. I can get behind the concept of the Catwoman costume, but I can never get behind his take on Penguin. Totally wrong. That "Joker" almost looks like Scarecrow. Just... terrible.

11-13-2009, 04:01 PM	#10
ZX_VRT Active Member Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Toronto,ON Blu-ray collection:4	that picture of the joker looks like something my 4 year old cousin drew up. the joker in the dark knight looked pretty cool,

11-13-2009, 04:21 PM	#12
KingLeonidas300 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Arizona Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray collection:654 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:40	Batman Returns has my vote. Love this movie, one of my favorite blu's

11-13-2009, 04:29 PM	#14
Lepidopterous Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Feb 2008 Location:DjMethod was here Blu-ray collection:696 Trading Score:2	From the thread title I thought you meant Batman's returning darker than ever. After TDK I don't know how that's possible, with Bale's exaggerated growls.

11-13-2009, 04:43 PM	#15
SpaceDog Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Raleigh, NC Blu-ray collection:116	Batman Returns is definitely more Burtonesque than the first one. It has a fairly drastic tonal shift from the first film. I love it. As a sequel, it plays off the original just enough, but succeeds as an entity of its own. The dark humor, particularly between Catwoman and Batman is priceless. I'd have paid good money to see a third Burton Batman film. It wasn't meant to be though.

11-13-2009, 04:44 PM	#16
Jmills Senior Member Member since:Dec 2007 Blu-ray collection:55 Blu-ray reviews:16	I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the growl I didn't even notice it and felt it worked well with Batman.

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