10-bit LCDs... - Blu-ray Forum

resmonkey · 07-23-2007, 09:41 PM

That display more than 16.7M colors (which is 8-bit) on the screen, what are they ment for?

Do current Blu-Ray's use that many colors? Or is 10-bit colors more for the next 3-4 years, like 120Hz video?

Ex, new Sony XBRs' 10-bit color panels.

CptGreedle · 07-23-2007, 09:44 PM

I am not sure about that, but I know that 10 is a strange number to go to, i would have assumed the next would be 16 or even 12.
Either way, I know that only a well trained eye would see the difference in the amount of colors between 16.7 mill and something higher.
That is a lot of color and the human eye can only pick up so many itself.
There may be another reason to have it, I'll have to research or see if ppl on here know.

CptGreedle · 07-23-2007, 09:47 PM

Right off, I can see that it looks like a 10 bit LCD will be able to show 1.7 billion colors as opposed to the current 16.7 million.

Still I'd really have to see it to see if it is worth it.

resmonkey · 07-23-2007, 09:54 PM

I'm using a 6-bit display for my PS3, and I can see color banding where 8-bit is needed. Of course, if more colors are used that 8-bit cannot reproduce all at once, then color banding will effect.

That leads to the question again, does Blu-ray use 1.7 Billion colors?

AWT · 07-23-2007, 10:07 PM

8 bits per color.

BTBuck1 · 07-23-2007, 10:10 PM

I used to have a sony kdf42we655 3LCD HD rear projo. I would occassionally get what looked like blocking in red & orange areas of the picture.

When I went to my SXRD 50" 1080p, that problem was gone. Also, my Samsung 1080p LCD 46" does not exhibit this problem. I can only concur that this was a shortcomming in the TV related to it's Bit rating. Which I don't know what it is, or how you even find this info.

bigpoppa · 07-23-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Right off, I can see that it looks like a 10 bit LCD will be able to show 1.7 billion colors as opposed to the current 16.7 million.

Still I'd really have to see it to see if it is worth it.

i dont think you would need a trained eye to see the difference. from 16.7 mil ( which is a lot) to 1.7 bil(wow!). only thing is...... is there anything out there that will take advantage of this?

Merrick · 07-23-2007, 10:52 PM

Current LCDs and Plasmas do not display 16.7 million colors ( = 2^24 = 2^(8*3)). In fact, they display quite a bit less. If they did display all 16.7 million colors the blocking which is regularly noted would be very subtle, but still perceptible.
The new xvColor output by the BDP-S300 (if you're using HDMI 1.3) would provide a significantly larger portion of the RGB (16.7 million colors) color space to be displayed, but still not all of it.
If anyone would like to understand the xvYCC color space better, this is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.v.Color

Deciazulado · 07-25-2007, 08:17 PM

Try to think of 8-bit as 220 grey levels (for video signal, ya know) and 8-bit displays being able to display and map that onto a maximum of 256 levels if you get to use the full range of the display, setting 100% white as the maximum white on the LCD and 0% black as the darkest black simultaneously; and of 10-bit as 1024 grey levels. Then a 10-bit display should be able to insure that no matter what you do to the 220 level video signal (manipulate it up/down contrastier/paler/saturated/altered gammas,etc), you'd still get at least all the video's 220 levels without further "banding" added by processing.

07-23-2007, 09:41 PM	#1
resmonkey Member Member since:May 2007	10-bit LCDs... That display more than 16.7M colors (which is 8-bit) on the screen, what are they ment for? Do current Blu-Ray's use that many colors? Or is 10-bit colors more for the next 3-4 years, like 120Hz video? Ex, new Sony XBRs' 10-bit color panels.

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07-23-2007, 09:44 PM	#2
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	I am not sure about that, but I know that 10 is a strange number to go to, i would have assumed the next would be 16 or even 12. Either way, I know that only a well trained eye would see the difference in the amount of colors between 16.7 mill and something higher. That is a lot of color and the human eye can only pick up so many itself. There may be another reason to have it, I'll have to research or see if ppl on here know.

07-23-2007, 09:47 PM	#3
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Right off, I can see that it looks like a 10 bit LCD will be able to show 1.7 billion colors as opposed to the current 16.7 million. Still I'd really have to see it to see if it is worth it.

07-23-2007, 09:54 PM	#4
resmonkey Member Member since:May 2007	I'm using a 6-bit display for my PS3, and I can see color banding where 8-bit is needed. Of course, if more colors are used that 8-bit cannot reproduce all at once, then color banding will effect. That leads to the question again, does Blu-ray use 1.7 Billion colors?

07-23-2007, 10:07 PM	#5
AWT Banned Member since:Jul 2007	8 bits per color.

07-23-2007, 10:10 PM	#6
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	I used to have a sony kdf42we655 3LCD HD rear projo. I would occassionally get what looked like blocking in red & orange areas of the picture. When I went to my SXRD 50" 1080p, that problem was gone. Also, my Samsung 1080p LCD 46" does not exhibit this problem. I can only concur that this was a shortcomming in the TV related to it's Bit rating. Which I don't know what it is, or how you even find this info.

07-23-2007, 10:52 PM	#8
Merrick Member Member since:Jun 2007	Current LCDs and Plasmas do not display 16.7 million colors ( = 2^24 = 2^(8*3)). In fact, they display quite a bit less. If they did display all 16.7 million colors the blocking which is regularly noted would be very subtle, but still perceptible. The new xvColor output by the BDP-S300 (if you're using HDMI 1.3) would provide a significantly larger portion of the RGB (16.7 million colors) color space to be displayed, but still not all of it. If anyone would like to understand the xvYCC color space better, this is a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.v.Color

07-25-2007, 08:17 PM	#9
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1159 Blu-ray collection:7044 DVD collection:4044	Try to think of 8-bit as 220 grey levels (for video signal, ya know) and 8-bit displays being able to display and map that onto a maximum of 256 levels if you get to use the full range of the display, setting 100% white as the maximum white on the LCD and 0% black as the darkest black simultaneously; and of 10-bit as 1024 grey levels. Then a 10-bit display should be able to insure that no matter what you do to the 220 level video signal (manipulate it up/down contrastier/paler/saturated/altered gammas,etc), you'd still get at least all the video's 220 levels without further "banding" added by processing.

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