Blu-ray doubts - Blu-ray Forum

24frames · 12-28-2009, 07:07 AM

Okay, so i am a film student but i am not too crash hot on all the technical aspects involved with Blu-ray.
Anyway.
So i was considering blu-ray up until recently when i went to a family members house and watched a number of different titles.

The definition is great and sound is awesome too, but i have an issue with any movement within the frame.
I am not sure quite how to describe it, but when either the camera or frame subject moves it give it the look of being too clean,
to use filmspeak, it is like it was shot at 100 fps and played back at the same rate.
When characters move it makes it look less cinematic and more like a student film.

The blu-ray works fine enough for Big action scenes and a movie like Speed racer, and i can only suppose it works for films shot on digital (2012, traffic etc) but it makes all others look... off... so to speak.

The only time when this look did not occur was when i had the opportunity to view Blade Runner, projected rather than on a television (for one of my subjects)

I have seen

Transformers 2
Speed Racer
Welcome to the Jungle
Independence day
Dirty Dancing
Blade Runner*
and Wanted

and with the exception of Blade runner as Projected this 'off' look occurred on all of them.

The set up on the tv was HDMI, proper sound set-up and was played at 1080p

Could someone please explain this away with a simple set up issue or something......

42041 · 12-28-2009, 07:13 AM

Sounds like what you were viewing it on was one of those horrible 120hz motion smoothing TVs. That effect can be disabled, it has nothing to do with the blu-ray disc.

Q? · 12-28-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

Sounds like what you were viewing it on was one of those horrible 120hz motion smoothing TVs. That effect can be disabled, it has nothing to do with the blu-ray disc.

+1
Get a plasma!

24frames · 12-28-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q!

+1
Get a plasma!

why not LCD or do they all have that motion smoothing thing?

also something i should have added i also watched a DVD (never back down) in the same player and it looked fine (for a movie that was actually shot digitally) and there was nowhere near that weird effect from the blu-rays

is it just a blu-ray specific thing for the tv?

Steve · 12-28-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

Sounds like what you were viewing it on was one of those horrible 120hz motion smoothing TVs. That effect can be disabled, it has nothing to do with the blu-ray disc.

This was my first thought as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24frames

why not LCD or do they all have that motion smoothing thing?

also something i should have added i also watched a DVD (never back down) in the same player and it looked fine (for a movie that was actually shot digitally) and there was nowhere near that weird effect from the blu-rays

is it just a blu-ray specific thing for the tv?

Pretty much all LCDs have motion enhancing features (every manufacturer calls it something different), but it can always be turned off. IMO a plasma is the better option, but that's just my opinion. With regard to the DVD, I suppose it's possible that it appears not to have the same effect because it's such a lower resolution. Even upscaled it won't look like a blu-ray.

OrlandoEastwood · 12-28-2009, 02:30 PM

Well, Blu-rays have a stronger bit rate than DVDs. When I first got my external Blu-ray drive for my laptop a year ago, I could tell the difference with DVD and Blu-rays. It does look different but it's the resolution. There's more detail in the imagery.

masoud90 · 12-28-2009, 09:39 PM

LED>>>>>>LCD>>>>>Plasma

GLaDOS · 12-28-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q!

+1
Get a plasma!

I wanted a 120 Hz TV, but I got stuck with a 42" Panasonic 720p Viera plasma.

Steve · 12-28-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotsedriver

I wanted a 120 Hz TV, but I got stuck with a 42" Panasonic 720p Viera plasma.

You must be hating life.

GLaDOS · 12-28-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireman325

You must be hating life.

It was an OK TV, but my dad and I wanted one better.

Beta Man · 12-28-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masoud90

LED>>>>>>LCD>>>>>Plasma

too much scientific evidence to refute........I will just step away

Master Shake714 · 01-09-2010, 06:09 AM

i have a sony 46' lcd with 120hz motion enhancer...and it looks perfect to me...sounds like u were experiencing the soap opera effect?....jus have to play around with the setting of the tv and it will b fine..my motion enhancer is on high and its fabulous

emoxley · 01-09-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24frames

Okay, so i am a film student but i am not too crash hot on all the technical aspects involved with Blu-ray.
Anyway.
So i was considering blu-ray up until recently when i went to a family members house and watched a number of different titles.

The definition is great and sound is awesome too, but i have an issue with any movement within the frame.
I am not sure quite how to describe it, but when either the camera or frame subject moves it give it the look of being too clean,
to use filmspeak, it is like it was shot at 100 fps and played back at the same rate.
When characters move it makes it look less cinematic and more like a student film.

The blu-ray works fine enough for Big action scenes and a movie like Speed racer, and i can only suppose it works for films shot on digital (2012, traffic etc) but it makes all others look... off... so to speak.

The only time when this look did not occur was when i had the opportunity to view Blade Runner, projected rather than on a television (for one of my subjects)

I have seen

Transformers 2
Speed Racer
Welcome to the Jungle
Independence day
Dirty Dancing
Blade Runner*
and Wanted

and with the exception of Blade runner as Projected this 'off' look occurred on all of them.

The set up on the tv was HDMI, proper sound set-up and was played at 1080p

Could someone please explain this away with a simple set up issue or something......

It would be a much better viewing experience with a DLP tv or a front projector. The motion problem isn't a problem with either one of these. You don't get the cartoon-ish look with these either. While plasmas are better than LCDs with motion, I don't recommend them either, unless you have a totally dark room for watching. The glass screen on plasmas reflect so bad, I, personally, can't stand to watch one. The new anti-glare screens aren't good enough either, for me. It's great if you like them. Your nerves are in better condition than mine. A lot of people love them. I don't. I wish they could do something about the glare, because I admit, the picture on them is very good. Just not good enough to distract me from the glare.

People complain that off axis viewing of DLP is so bad. In a home theater environment, how many seats are off axis, usually? I can be in my bedroom, which is 45 degrees off, or more, and I can still see the tv picture pretty well. Of course, it's not as good as looking straight on, but no one watches a movie from that angle anyway. They are finally starting to makes some LCDs and plasmas, over 52". that are more affordable. But still not affordable enough, yet. I still say that DLP is the only way to get something over 52", that's affordable for most people. And again, it doesn't have all the problems with motion, cartoon-ish looks, and glare, that the other technologies have.
Just my $.02............

Steve · 01-09-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Shake714

i have a sony 46' lcd with 120hz motion enhancer...and it looks perfect to me...sounds like u were experiencing the soap opera effect?....jus have to play around with the setting of the tv and it will b fine..my motion enhancer is on high and its fabulous

It's a subjective issue though. Some people like the effect the motion enhancer has on the picture and that's fine, but others do not and that's fine too. My guess is that the OP does not like the effect.

mutelight · 01-11-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoxley

And again, it doesn't have all the problems with motion, cartoon-ish looks, and glare, that the other technologies have.
Just my $.02............

That is only on LCD technology with MCFI functions enabled. The OP was watching these movies on a LCD with it engaged.

DLPs do give you good screen real estate for the price but they are no match for modern FPDs.

emoxley · 01-11-2010, 02:28 AM

An LED DLP is definitely a match for front panel displays. The biggest downside for a lot of people is that they can't hang it on the wall! I, personally, have absolutely no desire to hang a tv on the wall. It's a TV, not a painting or picture. As far as picture quality and performance, FPDs have nothing on my DLP. I'm not saying this because I own it either. If I didn't have one yet, I'd still say the same thing. I could have bought a FPD, but chose not to. I went with what I thought was the best product for my money.

A blu ray movie on my LED DLP looks as good, or better, than any LCD or plasma I've seen. A blu ray such as Planet Earth, is jaw dropping gorgeous on it. My tv doesn't have all the reflective glare that the plasmas and most LCDs have. My tv has very good black levels, and is more film like. The only tvs I've seen with possible better pictures are the Sony SXRD and JVC D-ILA tvs. They had the absolute best pictures of anything I've seen, and I've seen a lot. The LCoS tvs couldn't be beat. They had quit making them, and the stores were all sold out, by the time I could afford to get my tv, so the LED DLP was the next best thing. I know there are some that will disagree with me, but I don't really care. I didn't buy the tv for them. I can just tell my experiences, and give my suggestions. Everyone has an opinion..............

I know the OP was watching an LCD with the functions enabled. He had a bad experience. I just said he would have had a better experience with a DLP, which was the truth, because what caused his bad experience won't happen on a DLP.

mutelight · 01-11-2010, 02:53 AM

Glad you are happy with your DLP but having owned both a DLP and a LCoS display, I can assure you that they are great but truly don't hold up to quality FPDs.

emoxley · 01-11-2010, 04:28 AM

I haven't owned them, but I have friends with Sony and Samsung LCDs, and a Panasonic plasma. I setup surround sound systems for people, on the side, and have been around all different brands in a home environment. Even a Pioneer plasma, that people think so much about. I'll put my Samsung LED DLP up against any of them, for picture and overall performance. None of them, and I truly mean NONE, even come close to looking like film, as the DLP does. But to each his own. Glad you like your FPD...........

skygreenleopard · 02-17-2010, 11:59 PM

I also hate the motion smoothing effect.

For the OP (who probably loves film, seeing as his name is the frame rate of film)

The main advantage of buying a 120hz is that a movie can run at 24 fps without screen juddering. Older 60hz LCDs like mine show juddering, or jerky movement, when rendering a lot of screen motion at once. Examples are slow pans across landscapes or a scene - you'll recognize it. The reason it does this is that 24fps doesn't really fit into the 60hz frequency (or 60 image sper second), so the 24 frames are not all shown for equal lengths of time. See this thread for details:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/display-th...explained.html

Basically, a 24fps film shown on a 120hz display will be a lot smoother than on a 60hz display.

However, the "100fps" effect you speak of uses the TV's processors to estimate what the space between frames looks like. By inserting these artificial frames between the actual frames in films, it essentially boosts the fps and smooths motion. That's why it looks like a soap opera or live broadcast. Depending on how effective the TV's motion smoothing picture is, it can introduce picture artifacts, as its "estimates" on the artificial frames aren't necessarily 100% accurate. Personally, I hate the look it gives movies. In addition, I've never seen one that looks completely smoothly. I can see the frame rate dip and rise depending on the type of motion occuring on-screen. I LOVE it for videogaming, as it adds to the realism, but I hate it for movie-watching. Why would I want to Godfather to play out like a British soap opera?

sasquatch · 02-18-2010, 04:27 PM

I own a 46" Samsung 60hz and don't have the motion smoothing option or effect. I went with 60hz specifically to avoid this potential headache. I may get some motion blur when it comes to panning, but all the hoopla I heard about sports and games.. well, i don't see it. Love my 60hz! All my movies like Transformers look fine too.

12-28-2009, 07:07 AM	#1
24frames Junior Member Member since:Dec 2009	Blu-ray doubts Okay, so i am a film student but i am not too crash hot on all the technical aspects involved with Blu-ray. Anyway. So i was considering blu-ray up until recently when i went to a family members house and watched a number of different titles. The definition is great and sound is awesome too, but i have an issue with any movement within the frame. I am not sure quite how to describe it, but when either the camera or frame subject moves it give it the look of being too clean, to use filmspeak, it is like it was shot at 100 fps and played back at the same rate. When characters move it makes it look less cinematic and more like a student film. The blu-ray works fine enough for Big action scenes and a movie like Speed racer, and i can only suppose it works for films shot on digital (2012, traffic etc) but it makes all others look... off... so to speak. The only time when this look did not occur was when i had the opportunity to view Blade Runner, projected rather than on a television (for one of my subjects) I have seen Transformers 2 Speed Racer Welcome to the Jungle Independence day Dirty Dancing Blade Runner* and Wanted and with the exception of Blade runner as Projected this 'off' look occurred on all of them. The set up on the tv was HDMI, proper sound set-up and was played at 1080p Could someone please explain this away with a simple set up issue or something......

01-11-2010, 02:28 AM	#16
emoxley Active Member Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Eastern NC Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray collection:62 Trading Score:1	An LED DLP is definitely a match for front panel displays. The biggest downside for a lot of people is that they can't hang it on the wall! I, personally, have absolutely no desire to hang a tv on the wall. It's a TV, not a painting or picture. As far as picture quality and performance, FPDs have nothing on my DLP. I'm not saying this because I own it either. If I didn't have one yet, I'd still say the same thing. I could have bought a FPD, but chose not to. I went with what I thought was the best product for my money. A blu ray movie on my LED DLP looks as good, or better, than any LCD or plasma I've seen. A blu ray such as Planet Earth, is jaw dropping gorgeous on it. My tv doesn't have all the reflective glare that the plasmas and most LCDs have. My tv has very good black levels, and is more film like. The only tvs I've seen with possible better pictures are the Sony SXRD and JVC D-ILA tvs. They had the absolute best pictures of anything I've seen, and I've seen a lot. The LCoS tvs couldn't be beat. They had quit making them, and the stores were all sold out, by the time I could afford to get my tv, so the LED DLP was the next best thing. I know there are some that will disagree with me, but I don't really care. I didn't buy the tv for them. I can just tell my experiences, and give my suggestions. Everyone has an opinion.............. I know the OP was watching an LCD with the functions enabled. He had a bad experience. I just said he would have had a better experience with a DLP, which was the truth, because what caused his bad experience won't happen on a DLP. Last edited by emoxley; 01-11-2010 at 02:33 AM.

01-11-2010, 02:53 AM	#17
mutelight Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:SF Bay Area, CA Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray collection:149 Trading Score:1	Glad you are happy with your DLP but having owned both a DLP and a LCoS display, I can assure you that they are great but truly don't hold up to quality FPDs. Last edited by mutelight; 01-11-2010 at 02:55 AM.

02-17-2010, 11:59 PM	#19
skygreenleopard Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:15 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:3	I also hate the motion smoothing effect. For the OP (who probably loves film, seeing as his name is the frame rate of film) The main advantage of buying a 120hz is that a movie can run at 24 fps without screen juddering. Older 60hz LCDs like mine show juddering, or jerky movement, when rendering a lot of screen motion at once. Examples are slow pans across landscapes or a scene - you'll recognize it. The reason it does this is that 24fps doesn't really fit into the 60hz frequency (or 60 image sper second), so the 24 frames are not all shown for equal lengths of time. See this thread for details: https://forum.blu-ray.com/display-th...explained.html Basically, a 24fps film shown on a 120hz display will be a lot smoother than on a 60hz display. However, the "100fps" effect you speak of uses the TV's processors to estimate what the space between frames looks like. By inserting these artificial frames between the actual frames in films, it essentially boosts the fps and smooths motion. That's why it looks like a soap opera or live broadcast. Depending on how effective the TV's motion smoothing picture is, it can introduce picture artifacts, as its "estimates" on the artificial frames aren't necessarily 100% accurate. Personally, I hate the look it gives movies. In addition, I've never seen one that looks completely smoothly. I can see the frame rate dip and rise depending on the type of motion occuring on-screen. I LOVE it for videogaming, as it adds to the realism, but I hate it for movie-watching. Why would I want to Godfather to play out like a British soap opera? Last edited by skygreenleopard; 02-18-2010 at 12:06 AM.

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12-28-2009, 07:13 AM	#2
42041 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2008	Sounds like what you were viewing it on was one of those horrible 120hz motion smoothing TVs. That effect can be disabled, it has nothing to do with the blu-ray disc.

12-28-2009, 02:30 PM	#6
OrlandoEastwood Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:R-Point Blu-ray reviews:86 Trading Score:24	Well, Blu-rays have a stronger bit rate than DVDs. When I first got my external Blu-ray drive for my laptop a year ago, I could tell the difference with DVD and Blu-rays. It does look different but it's the resolution. There's more detail in the imagery.

12-28-2009, 09:39 PM	#7
masoud90 Power Member Member since:Oct 2008 Location:Seattle, WA Blu-ray collection:180 Trading Score:3	LED>>>>>>LCD>>>>>Plasma

01-09-2010, 06:09 AM	#12
Master Shake714 Member Member since:Jan 2010 Location:Anaheim,CA 4K collection:1 Blu-ray collection:9	i have a sony 46' lcd with 120hz motion enhancer...and it looks perfect to me...sounds like u were experiencing the soap opera effect?....jus have to play around with the setting of the tv and it will b fine..my motion enhancer is on high and its fabulous

01-11-2010, 04:28 AM	#18
emoxley Active Member Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Eastern NC Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray collection:62 Trading Score:1	I haven't owned them, but I have friends with Sony and Samsung LCDs, and a Panasonic plasma. I setup surround sound systems for people, on the side, and have been around all different brands in a home environment. Even a Pioneer plasma, that people think so much about. I'll put my Samsung LED DLP up against any of them, for picture and overall performance. None of them, and I truly mean NONE, even come close to looking like film, as the DLP does. But to each his own. Glad you like your FPD...........

02-18-2010, 04:27 PM	#20
sasquatch Active Member Member since:Dec 2009 Location:Pennsylvania Blu-ray collection:25 Blu-ray reviews:2	I own a 46" Samsung 60hz and don't have the motion smoothing option or effect. I went with 60hz specifically to avoid this potential headache. I may get some motion blur when it comes to panning, but all the hoopla I heard about sports and games.. well, i don't see it. Love my 60hz! All my movies like Transformers look fine too.

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