Legal Question: Can a landlord make you take a UA/Drug Test?

[Groo The Perverted]

Okay this is the situation. This isn't about ME (or a "friend") lol Well it is sorta.

I live in a church run building, and they were having me proof-read the standard "Contract" that we sign when renting a room for typos. Most of it is basic "if you trash your room before leaving, you'll lose your deposit, can't make loud noises after 10, that kinda thing.

But there were two sections that I pointed out could be legally iffy, and that I didn't think it would be enforceable. NEITHER of these apply to me, because I don't drink or smoke or do drugs, but still...

1. They want this to be ALCOHOL FREE. They have as one of the rules that alcohol can't be consumed on property or in the building or rooms.

I realize they want this to be a "clean and sober" place, which I have no problem with. And there ARE people here that are in AA/NA that really don't need to be around that type of thing. So I see where they are coming from, but this IS NOT a clean and sober place, because you have to have someone here that's certified to deal with addictions, from what I've heard.

2. They have one of the portions that say that they can require a drug test/Urinalysis if they suspect you of drug use.

Now I was talking to the Pastor today, and I mentioned that I could kinda see this on a case by case basis, if someone applying here has a history of abusing drugs, and they're in a program and it's dealt with via the tenant's sponsor or something like that, but I felt it was kinda crazy just to randomly say "We think you're on something, here's a cup"

And as I said with the other one, I see where they are coming from, and there's a few people in the building now that are the obvious impetus for this addition (it wasn't there when I applied several months ago, nor was the alcohol one).

For those of you out there who perhaps know of this. I tried googling this (so some smart ass don't do that lmgtfy like I did to someone else. lol), but I'm not very good at navigating the legalese.

The important aspect determining this is it's an Apartment building in Washington State, and it is a church run building, so I'm thinking it's classified as a Non-Profit.

Not sure if that last part factors in, but it might...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Yautja]

WHOA, don't know the laws in America but here in Oz that's not allowed!!!

[fatediesel]

Not sure about the drug testing aspect, but I would think it's legal to say alcohol can't be consumed on church property. I don't know how it's any different than a college that bans alcohol on school property.

[sfmarine]

Hmm it may be on church property but it is YOUR apartment. The only thing you'd have to adhere to is the smoking laws. No alcohol? Now that is really ridiculous. It's a church do you have any idea how much wine my church stocks? Granted, they water it down with grape juice for the kiddies but still lol As far as a landlord being able to order you to take a drug test, Umm..maybe it's time to get find a new apartment but I'd say no.

No noise after 10? Seriously, besides X-mas eve, who goes to church that late?

[Teabaggins]

Originally Posted by Groo The Perverted

.....because I don't drink or smoke or do drugs, but still...

1. They want this to be ALCOHOL FREE. They have as one of the rules that alcohol can't be consumed on property or in the building or rooms.

2. They have one of the portions that say that they can require a drug test/Urinalysis if they suspect you of drug use.

why are you concerned if it doesn't apply to you and your boring life?

I suggest you take a bong hit, have a few drinks, and contemplate the basis of your inquiry.

[Q?]

^^
post of the day to me!

[Porkchop Express]

As long as a landlord puts something in a contract & you sign it, they can make you do it.

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Express

As long as a landlord puts something in a contract & you sign it, they can make you do it.

No, there are pretty strict laws about what can be in a rental contract. It varies by state.

[Teabaggins]

the church is above aaaaaaaaalllllllll laws!

[sfmarine]

I hope you at least get free Wi-Fi.

[Uniquely]

It would be interesting to find out the answers to those questions. I would think that if the housing were financially assisted, that may have some bearing on the different legalities. Some of the nurses aids that I work with live in government subsidized housing and they have very strict rules about guests. They can search for the apts for evidence of non residents spending the night like large male clothes in an apt where only a small woman and children live. Things like that.

[repete66211]

Those terms are not legally enforceable, but then most contracts aren't. The penalty for breaking the terms of a lease isn't arrest. Such a contract is a mutually exclusive agreement--I don't have to follow the rules but they don't have to provide me with a place to live. If we both follow the rules of the agreement then everything's kosher. In other words, the church can't force a tenant to get a drug test, but failure to do so could terminate the agreement. Does the tenant have legal recourse after termination? Yes he does, but having signed that agreement won't work in his benefit should he choose to do so.

[groovyone]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

Hmm it may be on church property but it is YOUR apartment. The only thing you'd have to adhere to is the smoking laws. No alcohol? Now that is really ridiculous. It's a church do you have any idea how much wine my church stocks? Granted, they water it down with grape juice for the kiddies but still lol As far as a landlord being able to order you to take a drug test, Umm..maybe it's time to get find a new apartment but I'd say no.

No noise after 10? Seriously, besides X-mas eve, who goes to church that late?

It is still THEIR apartment. That is why it is renting. They are the property owner, and it is up to the individual if they feel the rules are okay and sign the contract, or not worth dealing with and find another place.

[Groo The Perverted]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

Hmm it may be on church property but it is YOUR apartment. The only thing you'd have to adhere to is the smoking laws. No alcohol? Now that is really ridiculous. It's a church do you have any idea how much wine my church stocks? Granted, they water it down with grape juice for the kiddies but still lol As far as a landlord being able to order you to take a drug test, Umm..maybe it's time to get find a new apartment but I'd say no.

No noise after 10? Seriously, besides X-mas eve, who goes to church that late?

Well I'm not the one being asked to do this (no alcohol or the drug testing), but it's not because of the CHURCH, it's because as an apartment building, every place I've lived has had a noise rule. After 10pm, keep down the tv's and stereos and loud talking, because a lot of people are starting to go to bed.

As for the alcohol and drugs, it's probably because we have several people here, some of them good friends of mine, who are in recovery, and that's not good to have people around them drinking and whatnot.

Now, as I said, I'd have no problem with them trying to designate this place a clean and sober place, but as long as it IS NOT, I wouldn't think they'd be able to do that.

[Groo The Perverted]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Express

As long as a landlord puts something in a contract & you sign it, they can make you do it.

That's not necessarily true, because I've read before of contracts being ruled invalid because the rules they were trying to enforce were not legal.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by Teabaggins

the church is above aaaaaaaaalllllllll laws!

Not God's law. All churches are corporate entities under the state.

There is a big difference between legal and lawful. Pick up a Black's Law Dictionary and you'll see what I'm talking about. Legalise is a totally different language that has nothing to do with everyday english. The legal definitions are like Alice In Wonderland - they can make words mean whatever they want. There is no more common 'law' (not since Erie v. Railroad in 1938), only admiralty and equity 'law' and the entire legal system is based on contracts, not justice. It is a wealth draining mechanism.

[D_M]

Originally Posted by Groo The Perverted

That's not necessarily true, because I've read before of contracts being ruled invalid because the rules they were trying to enforce were not legal.

The contract may be invalid if there wasn't a 'meeting of the minds' or there was 'unlawful consideration'. 'Rights' can never be stripped, only 'privileges'.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Express

As long as a landlord puts something in a contract & you sign it, they can make you do it.

That is pretty much true in my state (AR), as long as it doesn't contradict some other law (i.e., excluding tenants based on race or gender violates both Federal & state Fair Housing Acts). I know of no law here that would prevent a landlord from requiring drug testing in a lease. (I can't say about other states; Arkansas probably has the weakest landlord-tenant law of any state.)

Please note that the ONLY provision of the U.S. Constitution which restricts action by private entities is the 13th Amendment's ban on slavery; all other constitutional rights apply ONLY to government action against individuals, and to a lesser extent corporations. So don't tell me how this church has "no right" to pry into your private life; for the most part, they do.

[Groo The Perverted]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

That is pretty much true in my state (AR), as long as it doesn't contradict some other law (i.e., excluding tenants based on race or gender violates both Federal & state Fair Housing Acts). I know of no law here that would prevent a landlord from requiring drug testing in a lease. (I can't say about other states; Arkansas probably has the weakest landlord-tenant law of any state.)

Please note that the ONLY provision of the U.S. Constitution which restricts action by private entities is the 13th Amendment's ban on slavery; all other constitutional rights apply ONLY to government action against individuals, and to a lesser extent corporations. So don't tell me how this church has "no right" to pry into your private life; for the most part, they do.

I believe that the courts have found that mandating a drug test, DNA test, etc, falls under the "unlawful search and seizure" section. That there has to be a VALID REASON for requiring this, such as job app where you're going to be using heavy machinery, or where your employer could become liable for your actions under the influence in case of injury or whatever.

I may be wrong about that, but I know I read it somewhere.

[fatediesel]

I don't think there's any limitations on drug testing for pre-employment. My construction company drug tests all new employees, even those who will not be using any machinery. In addition in college when I worked as a salesman at Sears I had to take a drug test. Rules could be different by state. I would be surprised if it was legal for drug testing a tenant though.