Considering adding an amp

[Indyjones]

Well, I'm finally considering adding an an external amp to the system, with the prime canidate being a Emotiva XPA-5. My current setup consists of this (only running it at 5.1):

receiver - Pioneer Elite SC-05
center - Polk Audio CS400
mains - Polk Audio RTi 8's
surrounds - Polk Audio RT5's (yes, they're old!!!)
sub - pair of Definitive Technology 15TL+

One day when I hit the lottery, I'd like to get better speakers, but for now, these will have to do. I have a few questions, yes, probably dumb, but I am a newbie at the seperates side of HT.

First, would you add an amp to this system? I feel the way the system is currently, it does a decent job, but there's always room for improvement, at least with my gear. One concern is my current room is roughly 14x12, which isn't very big, so I don't know if adding an amp would be overkill. Also, how does the sound quality compare between an AVR and amp, besides the more raw power output? Is it noticeable or margainal?

[Irrob]

Not sure overkill would be an issue. One of the less mentioned benefits from an external amp is it takes the heavy work load away from the receiver. Perhaps that could extend the shelf life of your Elite. Of course your speakers will benefit from clean power. But I gotta say that the amp in the Elite is no slouch, so you probably could get away with what you have.

[Big Daddy]

ADVANTAGES & DISADVANTAGES OF RECEIVERS VS SEPARATE AMPLIFIERS

Advantages of Receivers
A receiver consists of three or four components: preamp/processor (all the switching and processing are done there), Tuner (AM/FM), and an Amplifier.
Receivers are convenient.
Receivers are affordable.
Receivers take less space

Disadvantages of Receivers
In a receiver, the three components above share the same power supply, circuits, etc.
Many compromises in the design of receivers.
Receivers have less power than amplifiers (less than 170 watts).
In many cases, receivers cannot output their stated power when all the channels are driven at the same time.
Receivers may not be able to drive high quality, large, and inefficient speakers.
Most receivers may have difficulty driving 4 ohm speakers.
Audio quality is not as good as separates.
They have less headroom and may clip faster.
May generate too much heat.

Advantages of Amplifiers
Amplifiers have their own higher-quality power supply.
Some high-end amplifiers have a different power supply for each channel.
Amps do not share their parts with any other components.
Generally speaking, amplifiers have more wattage. Some can handle 500 watts or more.
They can output cleaner power and in most cases, capabable of outputting as much as they are rated for, even when all the channels are driven.
They have a lot more headroom and do not clip as easily. This allows you to receive the maximum benefit from the superior dynamic range of Blu-ray movies and SACD music over DVD's and CD's.
They can easily drive 4 ohm speakers.
Audio quality is much better.
Can mix and match with speakers and other components.
You can brag more.

Disadvantage of Amplifiers
They are less convenient.
You normally need three components to do the job of one receiver.
They can take more space.
They are more expensive.
Your electric bill may run higher.
Setup can be more complex.

I use my Denon receiver as a Pre/Pro. I only use the pre-amp portion and the built-in audio codecs of the receiver. I use separate amplifiers to drive all my speakers. Even my subwoofers are passive and are driven by separate amplifiers. The speakers have different impedances. The amplifiers handle them with ease and can play very loud without clipping.

Read about some amplifier myths:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

Well, I'm finally considering adding an an external amp to the system, with the prime canidate being a Emotiva XPA-5. My current setup consists of this (only running it at 5.1):

receiver - Pioneer Elite SC-05
center - Polk Audio CS400
mains - Polk Audio RTi 8's
surrounds - Polk Audio RT5's (yes, they're old!!!)
sub - pair of Definitive Technology 15TL+

One day when I hit the lottery, I'd like to get better speakers, but for now, these will have to do. I have a few questions, yes, probably dumb, but I am a newbie at the seperates side of HT.

First, would you add an amp to this system? I feel the way the system is currently, it does a decent job, but there's always room for improvement, at least with my gear. One concern is my current room is roughly 14x12, which isn't very big, so I don't know if adding an amp would be overkill. Also, how does the sound quality compare between an AVR and amp, besides the more raw power output? Is it noticeable or margainal?

Hopefully, Fors* will see this and respond soon. He just got an XPA-3 to use with his Pioneer Elite. He should be able to tell you the differences/benefits he saw.

[crazyBLUE]

My receiver(SC-7) runs cooler . All it is doing is processing too . All my subs & speakers are running of Ext. Amps .

The sound is far more cleaner then just the receiver .

I would not worry about room size either

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

My receiver(SC-7) runs cooler . All it is doing is processing too . All my subs & speakers are running of Ext. Amps .

The sound is far more cleaner then just the receiver .

I would not worry about room size either

Sorry, Brent. I forgot you also had an Eilte.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Hammie

Hopefully, Fors* will see this and respond soon. He just got an XPA-3 to use with his Pioneer Elite. He should be able to tell you the differences/benefits he saw.

OP,

Fors* review on his XPA-3 brought a tear to my eye. It was really poignant and persuasive, and it made me decide I need an amp for my system too.

I'll get one after a 1080p projector, standalone CD player, new BD player, new fronts and center. So much to buy, so little $$$.

I don't know your speakers so I cannot say, but for me I want one, but I want a few other things first. Honestly, it probably doesn't matter if I get it first or last in my list, I'm sure a few 200W monoblocks would be great!

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

Well, I'm finally considering adding an an external amp to the system, with the prime canidate being a Emotiva XPA-5. My current setup consists of this (only running it at 5.1):

receiver - Pioneer Elite SC-05
center - Polk Audio CS400
mains - Polk Audio RTi 8's
surrounds - Polk Audio RT5's (yes, they're old!!!)
sub - pair of Definitive Technology 15TL+

One day when I hit the lottery, I'd like to get better speakers, but for now, these will have to do. I have a few questions, yes, probably dumb, but I am a newbie at the seperates side of HT.

First, would you add an amp to this system? I feel the way the system is currently, it does a decent job, but there's always room for improvement, at least with my gear. One concern is my current room is roughly 14x12, which isn't very big, so I don't know if adding an amp would be overkill. Also, how does the sound quality compare between an AVR and amp, besides the more raw power output? Is it noticeable or margainal?

I think the XPA-5 (along with the SC-05, as I have one) is an excellent addition. It is not about the power it will bring and/or if it will overpower the room. It is about the efficiency it adds to your audio. Efficiency equates to a cleaner sound and it provides a more dynamic range to your speakers, where the improved imaging becomes quite apparent. Furthermore, this will "open up" your speakers and provide better detail of your highs, mids and lows.

With the XPA-5 and running 200 watts per channel into all 5 speakers you have, if you ever decide to add rear surrounds, your SC-05 will be that much more efficient itself by having to only power 2 channels, and it should keep up rather well with the other 5 speakers that are hooked up to the XPA-5. The SC-05 works wonderfully as a Pre/Pro and adding an XPA-5 to the mix is a great idea and one where you will reap the benefits right away.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by Fors*

I think the XPA-5 (along with the SC-05, as I have one) is an excellent addition. It is not about the power it will bring and/or if it will overpower the room. It is about the efficiency it adds to your audio. Efficiency equates to a cleaner sound and it provides a more dynamic range to your speakers, where the improved imaging becomes quite apparent. Furthermore, this will "open up" your speakers and provide better detail of your highs, mids and lows.

With the XPA-5 and running 200 watts per channel into all 5 speakers you have, if you ever decide to add rear surrounds, your SC-05 will be that much more efficient itself by having to only power 2 channels, and it should keep up rather well with the other 5 speakers that are hooked up to the XPA-5. The SC-05 works wonderfully as a Pre/Pro and adding an XPA-5 to the mix is a great idea and one where you will reap the benefits right away.

Thanks for the imput Fors. I think I've made the decision to go ahead and amp up. It's not a power thing for me, I just want an even better qaulity of sound. I don't see myself running a 7.1 config for awhile, so would I be better off just getting the XPA-3? $600 would be a easier to bite off than $800. I would have to look into a new tv stand or an audio rack though. I was barely able to get the SC-05 to fit on the bottom shelf of my stand. If the XPA's are shorter in height, that would possibly work. I'm just worried about the added weight to the bottom shelf, which is glass by the way, and would add up to over 100 lbs.

Just out of curiousity, how much of a sound difference would I notice? Is it quite apparent? Examples?

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

Thanks for the imput Fors. I think I've made the decision to go ahead and amp up. It's not a power thing for me, I just want an even better qaulity of sound. I don't see myself running a 7.1 config for awhile, so would I be better off just getting the XPA-3? $600 would be a easier to bite off than $800. I would have to look into a new tv stand or an audio rack though. I was barely able to get the SC-05 to fit on the bottom shelf of my stand. If the XPA's are shorter in height, that would possibly work. I'm just worried about the added weight to the bottom shelf, which is glass by the way, and would add up to over 100 lbs.

Just out of curiousity, how much of a sound difference would I notice? Is it quite apparent? Examples?

Depends on your budget, but if you think $800 is too much, you will still be very happy with the XPA-3 at $600.00. I felt the balance would be better for me to have the SC-05 power all surrounds since I use 3 surrounds (6 channel set-up) and let the XPA-3 power the front soundstage. In your case, with using only 5 channels, maybe you should strongly think about pony'ing up the extra $200 and get the XPA-5. This way, the amp will provide all the power for all of your speakers. It might just prove to be worth it in the long run for you, as it could provide better tonal balance overall.

The difference/improvement will be limitied to the quality of the speakers, but you should hear a better dynamic range from them. I also sensed better seperation of the highs, mids and lows, which resulted in even better imaging, as well. I felt these were apparent almost right away. Good luck!

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

Thanks for the imput Fors. I think I've made the decision to go ahead and amp up. It's not a power thing for me, I just want an even better qaulity of sound. I don't see myself running a 7.1 config for awhile, so would I be better off just getting the XPA-3? $600 would be a easier to bite off than $800. I would have to look into a new tv stand or an audio rack though. I was barely able to get the SC-05 to fit on the bottom shelf of my stand. If the XPA's are shorter in height, that would possibly work. I'm just worried about the added weight to the bottom shelf, which is glass by the way, and would add up to over 100 lbs.

Just out of curiousity, how much of a sound difference would I notice? Is it quite apparent? Examples?

Indy,


I couldn't resist adding my opinion on here, but it seems that Emotiva is the only brand in existence that offers incredible bang for your buck....at least thats the idea one would get from visiting this forum.

I'd like you to look at a company called Wyred for Sound....their products are affordable and are well respected in the HiFi community. The sound quality is in another league compared to the Emotivas......a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for.

http://www.wyred4sound.com/


If you are lucky, you can find these used on Audiogon...

..just some food for thought..! Enjoy your system!...

[LordoftheRings]

I got the XPA-5 in my system along with the XPA-2, but my room is much larger than yours and my speakers are much more demanding too.

In your particular case as in right now, I wouldn't bother. ...Only when you get better and more demanding speakers should you consider the XPA-5.
And even then, your room is only 14 by 12 (is it open to other adjacent rooms of your house?).

My personal opinion.

[jaeelarr]

I guess it depends on how loud you plan on playing your speakers and for how long.

It doesnt take much wattage to make a speaker go...most folks will never use more than 5-10 watts per channel UP to a certain db level.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by jaeelarr

I guess it depends on how loud you plan on playing your speakers and for how long.

It doesnt take much wattage to make a speaker go...most folks will never use more than 5-10 watts per channel UP to a certain db level.

Having an amp is not all about how loud you want to go or listen to things at all .The cleaner sound you get from the amp more than makes it worth having . Right now I am listening to Music at A lower level & it sounds wonderful . The amp offers so much more than Just being loud .

[LordoftheRings]

^ I'd say the preamp is the cause of this.

[Morrissey]

Call or email Emotiva and ask if they have any B-stock available. That's what I did and I saved $100 on an XPA-3. B-stock just means that the former owner returned the item after 30 days. Emotiva does test them before reselling so it should be ok.

[LordoftheRings]

^ Very good advice!

[jaeelarr]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Having an amp is not all about how loud you want to go or listen to things at all .The cleaner sound you get from the amp more than makes it worth having . Right now I am listening to Music at A lower level & it sounds wonderful . The amp offers so much more than Just being loud .

The only way an amp can sound "different" is from distortion, frequency equalization, or tonal controls. You aren't going to get much distortion from lower listening levels, if any at all.

There is only ONE thing an amp does: provides power. Thats it. Nothing else. It doesn't provide any change in sound (aka "warm").

And unless you plan on listening to music and movies at reference levels and above, a $300 A/V receiver will do anyone just fine. Again, most people dont realize that you only use 5-10 watts at any given time. it takes a mere 1 watt to power a speaker. Yes, you read that correctly...1.

Of course, everyone has their opinion on the subject and if people think they hear an audible difference in sound from one A/V/Amp to the next, then so be it. However, double-blind tests have been done and people simply cannot tell the difference in amps below clipping with identical setups/speakers.

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

[arrt vandelay]

Originally Posted by jaeelarr

The only way an amp can sound "different" is from distortion, frequency equalization, or tonal controls. You aren't going to get much distortion from lower listening levels, if any at all.

There is only ONE thing an amp does: provides power. Thats it. Nothing else. It doesn't provide any change in sound (aka "warm").

And unless you plan on listening to music and movies at reference levels and above, a $300 A/V receiver will do anyone just fine. Again, most people dont realize that you only use 5-10 watts at any given time. it takes a mere 1 watt to power a speaker. Yes, you read that correctly...1.

Of course, everyone has their opinion on the subject and if people think they hear an audible difference in sound from one A/V/Amp to the next, then so be it. However, double-blind tests have been done and people simply cannot tell the difference in amps below clipping with identical setups/speakers.

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

+111111-good to see someone post something like this...

for 99.9% of the HT population, there is absolutely no need for an amp. i use a 2 channel amp in my set up, and i'm currently debating whether or not to let it go. unless you really want to damage your hearing or have speakers w/ low impendence to drive, a good mid-range avr is all you need...