HD DVD: We're not at war with Blu-ray (more spin)

[BTBuck1]

HD DVD: We're Not at War with Blu-ray

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

August 20, 2007, 1:17 PM

As I sat in a Washington, D.C. hotel suite earlier this month demoing and discussing the first network-enabled movie titles with the HD DVD group, one remark struck me: HD DVD says it is not at war with Blu-ray and seemingly has little concern over Sony’s format.
It’s hard to miss the ping pong game of rhetoric between the promotion groups pushing HD DVD and Blu-ray. From sales figures to exclusive deals, press releases are churned out almost daily. The so-called “format war” is Betamax and VHS redux - at least that’s what the media wants you to think.

But the real competition is with standard-definition DVDs and convincing the masses of the merits of hi-def. And that’s the crux of why HD DVD just doesn’t care that Blu-ray has more studio deals or the PS3: none of this matters yet until more people start upgrading.
Unfortunately, you won’t hear either side say that publicly, because it’s important to make consumers feel like they are missing out by not becoming early adopters. The advantages aren’t as clear as they were with first-generation DVDs, and a format war helps garner critical media attention.
Now don’t get me wrong; I like a good, heated debate and a little zealotry as much as the next person, but at some point it’s important to understand the realities of the situation. It’s easy to get carried away arguing the value of one side versus the other and miss the forest from the trees: HD sales currently amount to barely 1% of DVD sales.
In fact, the HD DVD group was open to the idea of working jointly with Blu-ray to help convince more consumers to join the high-definition bandwagon, and welcomed the arrival of hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray players from LG and Samsung.
Each time BetaNews has met with Microsoft’s Kevin Collins, who heads up the company’s Consumer Media Technology Group and has active duties promoting HD DVD (more on Microsoft’s connection to HD DVD later), he is happy to show off -- and demo -- his collection of every single Blu-ray title as well. The same cannot be said about our meetings with the Blu-ray promotional group.
A little confidence can explain why: HD DVD believes its format is simply that much better in terms of features (video and audio quality is identical, as both use the same codecs). When placed side-by-side with Blu-ray versions of films, it will be a no-brainer for buyers to choose HD DVD, the group says, enumerating a number of reasons why.
Foremost is compatibility. All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. This means that HD DVD discs will also play on older DVD players, which is crucial for portability. Collins noted that Blu-ray owners will end up buying two discs to watch the movie on their laptop or in the car on a road trip.
Beyond that are features such as picture-in-picture and network capabilities. For example, both the HD DVD and Blu-ray version of “300” include a “blue screen” extra that allows the viewer to see how the complex battle scenes were actually filmed. But only the HD DVD version lets you watch the blue screen version alongside the actual movie, and the comparison is what makes the extra actually interesting to watch.
HD DVD’s networking (Blu-ray is network capable, but it’s not required) opens the door to quite a few possibilities. On 300, one of the first films with such capability, viewers can set bookmarks and upload their favorite scenes to a central location, where other 300 owners can watch them. Ringtone and wallpaper downloads are available as well, which get sent to a cell phone automatically.
However, the network-enabled features are not all gimmicky; HD DVD owners will eventually be able to download new subtitle languages, trailers, and other extended content for films, keeping them fresh well past their sell date. Downloads are kept on the player's built-in storage, another requirement of HD DVD.
The problem, of course, is how you explain those differences to potential buyers. This is where HD DVD has struggled since day one. Sony is nothing short of a marketing powerhouse, while Toshiba and Microsoft -- the two dominate companies behind HD DVD -- don’t have such experience.
This has enabled Sony to secure exclusive movie studio deals (Sony itself has a studio), as well as recent promotional agreements with Blockbuster and Target. But the HD DVD group has surprisingly little concern about the matter, claiming that when the customers are there, both formats will be supported equally.
So when will those Blu-ray-only studios coming running to HD DVD? The answer, if history is any indicator, is the magic $199 price point. DVD didn’t take off until the Chinese manufacturers were able to bring the cost down to that level, and we’ll likely see that happen with HD DVD players this holiday season.
Microsoft’s Collins noted that once HD DVD hits 1 million set top players sold, which could happen before the end of the year, none of the exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is. Currently, sold players total over 500,000 - largely due to recent price drops and free movie deals.
On Monday, both Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation announced support for HD DVD, citing the lower cost and better features available to customers. This decision apparently stemmed from the studios evaluating both formats for a year, and Collins expects more studios to follow this route.
For at least a little while longer, however, confusion is likely to continue for consumers contemplating a leap to high-definition movies. Trade-offs are still required, like deciding whether “Spider-Man 3” or “Shrek the Third” is more important for your HD collection. And as long as that's the case, the real winner of the format war -- real or imagined -- will be standard DVD.

http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_D...ray/1187630265

[BTBuck1]

HD DVD says it is not at war with Blu-ray and seemingly has little concern over Sony’s format.

No concern for Blu-ray?
If so, then why did Microsoft & the HD camp pay Paramount $150 mil for HDDVD exclusivity. That didn't help HDDVD (they already had Paramount) it Hurt Blu-ray! So this makes...No F'n sense. turn off the "spin cycle"

On Monday, both Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation announced support for HD DVD,

[Mr.Neutral]

Both formats are at war with DVD. Not so much at war, but both are looking to replace DVD. Noone is going to invest in either of the new formats AND DVD still.

Reality is that both formats could continue and both could prosper. People would either be dual format or pick the side that has the movies they want to watch. So long as each format continues to grow, there's additional revenue to be had. I think though there will be a time when studio's can't ignore the sales they are potentially giving up by not being able to sell to the single format owner. Maybe right now they think those people are buying DVD's instead???

[JTK]

I think we had a thread on this yesterday that disappeared somewhere.

Anyways, what I wrote there was:

I don't know if this is just rank hubris or bald faced lying...oh wait, it's all of the above.

Does anyone really believe this crap? If anyone was interested in working with the other...wait for it...we wouldn't be in a format war!

Duh!

Beyond that, months of being outsold by at least a 2-1 margin and they have the balls to refer to DVD as their only competitor? What is this guy smokin'?!

See my sig?

[Proteus]

Actually...

There is some important information in this story. It reveals a very deep online strategy for HDDVD.

Basically, they are saying that their lack of storage and other 'weaknesses' don't matter because they are 100% internet connected with dedicated storage (do all HDDVD players actually have harddrives?) to make up for it. Basically, you get the 'large' part of the movie on the HDDVD but you get all the other stuff via digital downloading. Sounds like they have re-positioned themselves to become a stepping stone between now and when the internet finally has the backbone and infrastructure to handle full HD digital downloading.

It's a very reasonable strategy, in fact, it's a good one that could effectively, as they stated, give HDDVD a _massive_ advantage if exploited properly. It would make the medium look 'limitless' because of it's connectivity and onsite storage.

If it all plays out like this, the landscape just changed and the BDA would have made a catastrophic mistake in not requiring an ethernet port (and this mysterious storage) on all Blu-ray players.

If this is what HDDVD is doing, it makes the Paramount/Dreamworks switch make a lot more sense and could be the lead in to what is to come at CEDIA.

Blu-ray as a storage media. HDDVD as a read-only media. Two formats living in harmony in the bigger picture.

Curious.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Actually...

There is some important information in this story. It reveals a very deep online strategy for HDDVD.

Basically, they are saying that their lack of storage and other 'weaknesses' don't matter because they are 100% internet connected with dedicated storage (do all HDDVD players actually have harddrives?) to make up for it. Basically, you get the 'large' part of the movie on the HDDVD but you get all the other stuff via digital downloading. Sounds like they have re-positioned themselves to become a stepping stone between now and when the internet finally has the backbone and infrastructure to handle full HD digital downloading.

It's a very reasonable strategy, in fact, it's a good one that could effectively, as they stated, give HDDVD a _massive_ advantage if exploited properly. It would make the medium look 'limitless' because of it's connectivity and onsite storage.

If it all plays out like this, the landscape just changed and the BDA would have made a catastrophic mistake in not requiring an ethernet port (and this mysterious storage) on all Blu-ray players.

If this is what HDDVD is doing, it makes the Paramount/Dreamworks switch make a lot more sense and could be the lead in to what is to come at CEDIA.

Blu-ray as a storage media. HDDVD as a read-only media. Two formats living in harmony in the bigger picture.

Curious.

Interesting.

[russ]

Originally Posted by Proteus

If this is what HDDVD is doing, it makes the Paramount/Dreamworks switch make a lot more sense and could be the lead in to what is to come at CEDIA.

Uh sorry but the Paramount move makes all kinds of sense for them no matter how anyone spins it. They are getting $150million in return for 18 months. Let's say that at $25 per HD disc, they would have to sell 6 million HD discs over the next 18 months just to match that in gross sales. Who knows how many HD discs they would have to sell in order to come out with a net gain of $150million. Now, the question is this: did Paramount expect to sell this amount of discs over the next 18 months, in any high def format? I doubt it.

[bleed-blu]

hd-vdvdvvdvd can suck big blu balls

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Mr.Neutral

Both formats are at war with DVD. Not so much at war, but both are looking to replace DVD. Noone is going to invest in either of the new formats AND DVD still.

Reality is that both formats could continue and both could prosper. People would either be dual format or pick the side that has the movies they want to watch. So long as each format continues to grow, there's additional revenue to be had. I think though there will be a time when studio's can't ignore the sales they are potentially giving up by not being able to sell to the single format owner. Maybe right now they think those people are buying DVD's instead???

Are you trying to act neutral or oblivious?

[E-Dogg]

Yeah, sure they are not at war. It makes no difference. They will fail.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Actually...

There is some important information in this story. It reveals a very deep online strategy for HDDVD.

Basically, they are saying that their lack of storage and other 'weaknesses' don't matter because they are 100% internet connected with dedicated storage (do all HDDVD players actually have harddrives?) to make up for it. Basically, you get the 'large' part of the movie on the HDDVD but you get all the other stuff via digital downloading. Sounds like they have re-positioned themselves to become a stepping stone between now and when the internet finally has the backbone and infrastructure to handle full HD digital downloading.

It's a very reasonable strategy, in fact, it's a good one that could effectively, as they stated, give HDDVD a _massive_ advantage if exploited properly. It would make the medium look 'limitless' because of it's connectivity and onsite storage.

If it all plays out like this, the landscape just changed and the BDA would have made a catastrophic mistake in not requiring an ethernet port (and this mysterious storage) on all Blu-ray players.

If this is what HDDVD is doing, it makes the Paramount/Dreamworks switch make a lot more sense and could be the lead in to what is to come at CEDIA.

Blu-ray as a storage media. HDDVD as a read-only media. Two formats living in harmony in the bigger picture.

Curious.

why download stuff when you can fit it all on one BD 50?

[radagast]

Each time BetaNews has met with Microsoft’s Kevin Collins, who heads up the company’s Consumer Media Technology Group and has active duties promoting HD DVD (more on Microsoft’s connection to HD DVD later), he is happy to show off -- and demo -- his collection of every single Blu-ray title as well. The same cannot be said about our meetings with the Blu-ray promotional group.


Betanews is trying to make it sound like HD DVD loves everyone and Blu-Ray has an attitude problem. Truth is: Collins has Blu titles because they are either not available in hd-dvd or he wants the better quality. The Blu-ray promotional group has no reason to have examples of an inferior format unless it is to compare to the same title in Blu-ray.

[WickyWoo]

The problem is that 30GB still really is barely enough for the average movie. No matter what you have that wall

I know for a fact everyone wants to sell you stuff through that Ethernet port, theyre far too reliant on it, because that way MS gets cash for every transaction.

[u_nick]

I translate "We're not at war" as: "Hey, we realized we cant beat Bluray, so lets pretend the war isnt there, to confuse people even more and hopefully we'll live on along side bluray".

[Mr.Neutral]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

Are you trying to act neutral or oblivious?

LOL

I should have added - HD DVD and Blu-ray are definetely at war with each other, but they also have DVD to deal with.

I think both could just compete for a share of the DVD pie and both could thrive at this. Until that magical number is hit where a given studio can't ignore potential lost sales. Then it all ends.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Basically, they are saying that their lack of storage and other 'weaknesses' don't matter because they are 100% internet connected with dedicated storage (do all HDDVD players actually have harddrives?) to make up for it. Basically, you get the 'large' part of the movie on the HDDVD but you get all the other stuff via digital downloading. Sounds like they have re-positioned themselves to become a stepping stone between now and when the internet finally has the backbone and infrastructure to handle full HD digital downloading.

Which plays into MS' hand. That is why MS keep pumping money into a format that it neither created nor has a hand in hardware or software.

It's not that I don't get the idea of downloading additional content. I don't get the idea of downloading the content NOW.

If this is HD-DVD's main gimmick then it is going to fail. Only 52.72% of American households have broadband. Among active internet users, broadband grew to 83.43%. This is not counting on the speed in which "broadband" is categorized.

A disc that tells you to go online if you want extras is far more irritating than a disc that gives you the extras in itself and THEN tell you that more extras are available online.

Of course, this is not even factoring PQ and AQ of the online extras or the main feature itself.

If it all plays out like this, the landscape just changed and the BDA would have made a catastrophic mistake in not requiring an ethernet port (and this mysterious storage) on all Blu-ray players.

The BD approach is a more gradual and less strenuous for J6P. However, all BD-Live players are capable of doing everything that the highest spec HD-DVD player can do and more. A Profile 1.1 player may or may not have an ethernet port or higher memory but CEs can opt to do so without reaching the criteria set for BD-Live.

This option also gives J6P options of buying the cheaper player should s/he opt not to go online for extras.


fuad

[dobyblue]

I think I just posted a pretty decent comment in there about that article.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I think I just posted a pretty decent comment in there about that article.

Link?

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

It's not that I don't get the idea of downloading additional content. I don't get the idea of downloading the content NOW.
If this is HD-DVD's main gimmick then it is going to fail. Only 52.72% of American households have broadband. Among active internet users, broadband grew to 83.43%. This is not counting on the speed in which "broadband" is categorized.

DiVX depended on having your player hooked up to a phone or Ethernet line just to watch your movies in the first place.
Most living rooms I've seen, don't, and don't plan to...Office work is office work, and entertainment is entertainment.

A disc that tells you to go online if you want extras is far more irritating than a disc that gives you the extras in itself and THEN tell you that more extras are available online.

As any Mac user who's ever wondered what the heck all that "DVD-Rom, with Internet connection (for Windows users only)" was all really about anyway, can attest--
We've learned to live without it for ten years, and we have the distinct impression we're not missing much.

This option also gives J6P options of buying the cheaper player should s/he opt not to go online for extras.

Bill Hunt, in his one "olive branch" peace-summit with Kevin Collins last summer raised a key valuable point:
When storage was brought up, Hunt asked whether the "exclusive updated downloadable content" could be transferred to a separate hard-disk form on computer...
Particularly as, quote, "Most movie-related content sites aren't usually still around five or six years after the customer buys the disk."

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

Link?

It's the first comment underneath the article.