SACDs - Blu-ray Forum

HAMP · 07-30-2010, 10:24 PM

I heard about SACD, but never gotten around to liatening to them. The closet I came to listening to them was from my PS3 the first one to come out.

I was planning to buy a CD, but before I could my PS3 was stolen.

Looking something up for someone else, I noticed that my Sony BDP-S570 will play SACD.

My question is, what sound field am I to use when listening to SACD?

I was thinking it couldn't be Stereo, because It's just two channel and it couldn't be 'All channel Stereo', because that is all seven using one channel.

Honestly if this is already posted, I didn't research.... lol

Thanks guys!!!!!

solarrdadd · 07-30-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMP

I heard about SACD, but never gotten around to liatening to them. The closet I came to listening to them was from my PS3 the first one to come out.

I was planning to buy a CD, but before I could my PS3 was stolen.

Looking something up for someone else, I noticed that my Sony BDP-S570 will play SACD.

My question is, what sound field am I to use when listening to SACD?

I was thinking it couldn't be Stereo, because It's just two channel and it couldn't be 'All channel Stereo', because that is all seven using one channel.

Honestly if this is already posted, I didn't research.... lol

Thanks guys!!!!!

both your player and your 805 support DSD which is the native format for SACD (you won't have to change it from DSD to PCM) your player should stream it out via HDMI as DSD, your Onkyo 805 should recognize it as DSD either stereo or multichannel and you will have some really nice sound. when i had the 805 it would say DSD Stereo or DSD multichannel on the display and hitting the display button it would say the frequency and bitrate. you shouldn't have to do anything.

now that i have the 5507, as with almost every Onkyo receiver i still get to enjoy SACD's with DSD support!

best of luck, keep us posted.

HAMP · 07-30-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

both your player and your 805 support DSD which is the native format for SACD (you won't have to change it from DSD to PCM) your player should stream it out via HDMI as DSD, your Onkyo 805 should recognize it as DSD either stereo or multichannel and you will have some really nice sound. when i had the 805 it would say DSD Stereo or DSD multichannel on the display and hitting the display button it would say the frequency and bitrate. you shouldn't have to do anything.

now that i have the 5507, as with almost every Onkyo receiver i still get to enjoy SACD's with DSD support!

best of luck, keep us posted.

Ok, I have no problem bringing it to my main theater, this is something I am curious about, but do you think it should do the samething with my Denon 789. Only reason I ask, is because the S570 is connected in my bedroom on the Denon.

LordoftheRings · 07-30-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMP

Ok, I have no problem bringing it to my main theater, this is something I am curious about, but do you think it should do the samething with my Denon 789. Only reason I ask, is because the S570 is connected in my bedroom on the Denon.

Nope, no HDMI SACD support from the Denon 789 receiver.

Onkyo 805, YES, both from HDMI (DSD staight or PCM converted

), and also from the Multichanel analog input (which your Denon 789 does also have). ...But does your Sony 570 have Multichannel analog outputs? Nope!

solarrdadd · 07-30-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Nope, no HDMI SACD support from the Denon 789 receiver.

Onkyo 805, YES, both from HDMI (DSD staight or PCM converted

), and also from the Multichanel analog input (which your Denon 789 does also have). ...But does your Sony 570 have Multichannel analog outputs?

LOTR's is correct on all fronts, sorry. let me ask you this. will the dennon convert the SACD DSD to PCM (stereo or multichannel) or will it not allow it to play anything via HDMI?

LordoftheRings · 07-30-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

LOTR's is correct on all fronts, sorry. let me ask you this. will the dennon convert the SACD DSD to PCM (stereo or multichannel) or will it not allow it to play anything via HDMI?

No SACD support at ALL (either DSD or PCM conversion)!

...Or unless, let me double check on that solarrdadd.

J6P · 07-30-2010, 11:10 PM

Hey HAMP,

I've got the BDP-S570 as well (man... I gotta update that gallery some time) and you need to make a change in the player's menu to get it up and running with DSD.

Under Audio Settings / DSD Output Mode: Set to ON (Default is OFF)

This will set you up to bitstream the DSD, rather than convert to PCM.

Enjoy the SACD! It's absolutely amazing.

LordoftheRings · 07-30-2010, 11:38 PM

Ok solarrdadd, I just checked the entire Denon 789 receiver' manual!

And there is absolutely no mention of this whatsoever, even of converted PCM from the DSD audio signal.

* But my best guess is that if you set the Sony 570 BD player to output converted PCM of the DSD audio signal from its HDMI output, then the Denon 789 receiver should output it as such from it's HDMI input, as it is now Multichannel PCM right? ...Because the Denon receiver still has HDMI version 1.3 but without any support for the DSD bitstream audio signal, just multichannel PCM. ...But even there, I'm not positively certain, but I truly think that's what is happening. ...Just that the Denon manual never mentioned anything of that sort!
- And if you use the analog outputs from the Sony player, you'll get only Stereo SACD output, as the Sony has only Stereo analog out.

NOTE -> HAMP, SACD sounds fabulous! And I encourage you to pursue this route that would provide it in your own setup. Check it with your Denon 789 receiver just as I said above (from your Sony 570 BD player setup: DSD Output Mode = OFF, which should convert it to Multichannel PCM from its digital HDMI output, and then up to your Denon HDMI input), and just see if you get any multichannel audio from your speakers. Of course you'll have to set your Sony player to play the Multichannel SACD layer for that.
- And if not, just bring your 570 into your main room with your Onkyo 805, and set both of them to DSD 'bitstream' direct (from both your 805 going into the HDMI audio menu setup, and also in your 570 just like J6P told you how to set it up above, to "ON").
-> Now, after that you need to get some software.

doctorsteve · 07-31-2010, 01:18 AM

By whatever means necessary HAMP... find a way to get ya some SACDs...

My faves: Dark Side of the Moon, The Stranger (Billy Joel), Trespass, Selling England by tbe Pound, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (all 3 Genesis), Aja and Gaucho from Steely Dan, Marc Knopflers Shangri-La, Bjork's Vespertine

Prime stuff, all of it!!! Some pricey, but to me - it's been worth it so far...

So, the best bet is to support Blu-Audio as well, so we can get more good stuff on Blu for the future...

Doc

ManUtd · 07-31-2010, 02:11 AM

HAMP before you get serious about SACDs I suggest you browse http://www.sa-cd.net/ and see if the artists/albums that you're interested in are available in this format. That site provides links to various Amazon sites where you can buy them. You can also check ebay for availability. Good luck.

HAMP · 07-31-2010, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

-> Now, after that you need to get some software.

You had me up until here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J6P

Hey HAMP,

I've got the BDP-S570 as well (man... I gotta update that gallery some time) and you need to make a change in the player's menu to get it up and running with DSD.

Under Audio Settings / DSD Output Mode: Set to ON (Default is OFF)

This will set you up to bitstream the DSD, rather than convert to PCM.

Enjoy the SACD! It's absolutely amazing.

Ok, thank you for your help... Will be doing this

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

By whatever means necessary HAMP... find a way to get ya some SACDs...

My faves: Dark Side of the Moon, The Stranger (Billy Joel), Trespass, Selling England by tbe Pound, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (all 3 Genesis), Aja and Gaucho from Steely Dan, Marc Knopflers Shangri-La, Bjork's Vespertine

Prime stuff, all of it!!! Some pricey, but to me - it's been worth it so far...

So, the best bet is to support Blu-Audio as well, so we can get more good stuff on Blu for the future...

Doc

Your post has gotten me a little scared.... lol
Scared I might like SACD more then I could have thought and really get into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManUtd

HAMP before you get serious about SACDs I suggest you browse http://www.sa-cd.net/ and see if the artists/albums that you're interested in are available in this format. That site provides links to various Amazon sites where you can buy them. You can also check ebay for availability. Good luck.

I kinda browsed that link before I created this thread to see if there was anything I was kinda interested in, before even taking the S570 downstairs to hear.

There were a few and I have a feeling if I like, I might go over board and get things I would have never bought before.

ManUtd · 07-31-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMP

I kinda browsed that link before I created this thread to see if there was anything I was kinda interested in, before even taking the S570 downstairs to hear.

There were a few and I have a feeling if I like, I might go over board and get things I would have never bought before.

Because of the limited availability (unless you're into classical music), that is pretty common and actually happened to me and some people I know.

LordoftheRings · 07-31-2010, 06:07 AM

CDs are going to be still around for quite a while though.

* Not too sure about Blu-rays though with that new Violet laser!

Johnny Vinyl · 07-31-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

CDs are going to be still around for quite a while though.

The used market will ensure that the supply will always be available.

Quote:

* Not too sure about Blu-rays though with that new Violet laser!

I don't think that is being marketed for the consumer BDP's.

John

dobyblue · 07-31-2010, 11:29 AM

One thing that hasn't been mentioned to you is that the TX-SR805 needs to be in either "DIRECT" or "PURE AUDIO" listening modes in order to process DSD directly to analog.

In all other modes it will convert to PCM and then use the DSP's.

The PCM1796 DAC's employed in the TX-SR805 will only convert DSD directly in those two modes. There is no "HDMI Audio menu set-up" on the 805 for deciding whether or not DSD is handled as PCM, only the listening modes will decide that for you.

THX, multi-channel, stereo, all channels, all these modes convert to PCM.

LordoftheRings · 08-01-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

One thing that hasn't been mentioned to you is that the TX-SR805 needs to be in either "DIRECT" or "PURE AUDIO" listening modes in order to process DSD directly to analog.

In all other modes it will convert to PCM and then use the DSP's.

The PCM1796 DAC's employed in the TX-SR805 will only convert DSD directly in those two modes. There is no "HDMI Audio menu set-up" on the 805 for deciding whether or not DSD is handled as PCM, only the listening modes will decide that for you.

THX, multi-channel, stereo, all channels, all these modes convert to PCM.

Very True. And you have to select "NO" under 'Direct Setting' (Delay Enable) for the DSD signals to be NOT processed by the DSP, and in those two audio listening modes you just mentioned; 'Pure Audio' or 'Direct' (page 83, top left corner from the 805's manual).
-> And if you select "YES", then the PCM factor comes into play.

HAMP · 08-01-2010, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

One thing that hasn't been mentioned to you is that the TX-SR805 needs to be in either "DIRECT" or "PURE AUDIO" listening modes in order to process DSD directly to analog.

In all other modes it will convert to PCM and then use the DSP's.

The PCM1796 DAC's employed in the TX-SR805 will only convert DSD directly in those two modes. There is no "HDMI Audio menu set-up" on the 805 for deciding whether or not DSD is handled as PCM, only the listening modes will decide that for you.

THX, multi-channel, stereo, all channels, all these modes convert to PCM.

I have learned a little more then what I was looking for, but this is answering my orginal question. I knew it had to be in a certain sound field, but didn't know all that would occur from other fields.

***** Edit *****
Also,
I ordered Norah Jones: Come Away with me as my first test SACD. I already have her regular CD to compare it with

dobyblue · 08-01-2010, 03:34 AM

Don't see where it says in the manual that a PCM conversion comes into play when you're only dealing with an A/V synch issue. Do you?

The manual simply says - In listening modes other than DSD Direct, DSD sources are converted and handled as PCM.

The delay is a strange setting, why would you want an A/V sync setting with DSD which contains no video?

LordoftheRings · 08-01-2010, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Don't see where it says in the manual that a PCM conversion comes into play when you're only dealing with an A/V synch issue. Do you?

The manual simply says - In listening modes other than DSD Direct, DSD sources are converted and handled as PCM.

The delay is a strange setting, why would you want an A/V sync setting with DSD which contains no video?

I just referred to page 83, top left corner, where it does mentioned "Delay Enable" under 'Direct Setting' for DSD. Anything else is pure conjunction.

* As for PCM, I just presume from my simple but smart brains.

(I think you simply misreaded or misunderstanded my prior post, which is totally unimportant.)

~ Anyway the OP has all the info he really needs and his first SACD is on his way.

HAMP · 08-01-2010, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Anyway the OP has all the info he really needs and his first SACD is on his way.

This may sound silly, but I hope when it gets here, and I have everything set up perfect, I don't notice a thing and I can talk trash to you guys.

I'm a little scared I'm gonna love it and go a little nuts and have friends over for SACD listening parties.

If I love it, I already know I'm going to have to buy a SACD player, becasue the S570 is for the bedroom.

07-30-2010, 10:24 PM	#1
HAMP Banned Top contributor Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Michigan Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:272 Trading Score:1	SACDs I heard about SACD, but never gotten around to liatening to them. The closet I came to listening to them was from my PS3 the first one to come out. I was planning to buy a CD, but before I could my PS3 was stolen. Looking something up for someone else, I noticed that my Sony BDP-S570 will play SACD. My question is, what sound field am I to use when listening to SACD? I was thinking it couldn't be Stereo, because It's just two channel and it couldn't be 'All channel Stereo', because that is all seven using one channel. Honestly if this is already posted, I didn't research.... lol Thanks guys!!!!!

07-30-2010, 11:38 PM	#8
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	Ok solarrdadd, I just checked the entire Denon 789 receiver' manual! And there is absolutely no mention of this whatsoever, even of converted PCM from the DSD audio signal. * But my best guess is that if you set the Sony 570 BD player to output converted PCM of the DSD audio signal from its HDMI output, then the Denon 789 receiver should output it as such from it's HDMI input, as it is now Multichannel PCM right? ...Because the Denon receiver still has HDMI version 1.3 but without any support for the DSD bitstream audio signal, just multichannel PCM. ...But even there, I'm not positively certain, but I truly think that's what is happening. ...Just that the Denon manual never mentioned anything of that sort! - And if you use the analog outputs from the Sony player, you'll get only Stereo SACD output, as the Sony has only Stereo analog out. NOTE -> HAMP, SACD sounds fabulous! And I encourage you to pursue this route that would provide it in your own setup. Check it with your Denon 789 receiver just as I said above (from your Sony 570 BD player setup: DSD Output Mode = OFF, which should convert it to Multichannel PCM from its digital HDMI output, and then up to your Denon HDMI input), and just see if you get any multichannel audio from your speakers. Of course you'll have to set your Sony player to play the Multichannel SACD layer for that. - And if not, just bring your 570 into your main room with your Onkyo 805, and set both of them to DSD 'bitstream' direct (from both your 805 going into the HDMI audio menu setup, and also in your 570 just like J6P told you how to set it up above, to "ON"). -> Now, after that you need to get some software. Last edited by LordoftheRings; 07-30-2010 at 11:54 PM. Reason: typo

07-31-2010, 06:07 AM	#13
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	The times they are a-changin'. CDs are going to be still around for quite a while though. * Not too sure about Blu-rays though with that new Violet laser!

07-30-2010, 11:10 PM	#7
J6P Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:117 Blu-ray collection:270	Hey HAMP, I've got the BDP-S570 as well (man... I gotta update that gallery some time) and you need to make a change in the player's menu to get it up and running with DSD. Under Audio Settings / DSD Output Mode: Set to ON (Default is OFF) This will set you up to bitstream the DSD, rather than convert to PCM. Enjoy the SACD! It's absolutely amazing.

07-31-2010, 01:18 AM	#9
doctorsteve Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Tonawanda, NY Home Theater Gallery:15 Blu-ray collection:188 Blu-ray reviews:16	By whatever means necessary HAMP... find a way to get ya some SACDs... My faves: Dark Side of the Moon, The Stranger (Billy Joel), Trespass, Selling England by tbe Pound, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (all 3 Genesis), Aja and Gaucho from Steely Dan, Marc Knopflers Shangri-La, Bjork's Vespertine Prime stuff, all of it!!! Some pricey, but to me - it's been worth it so far... So, the best bet is to support Blu-Audio as well, so we can get more good stuff on Blu for the future... Doc

07-31-2010, 02:11 AM	#10
ManUtd Blu-ray Count Top contributor Member since:Feb 2008 Location:In my HT Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:15 Blu-ray collection:829 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:5	HAMP before you get serious about SACDs I suggest you browse http://www.sa-cd.net/ and see if the artists/albums that you're interested in are available in this format. That site provides links to various Amazon sites where you can buy them. You can also check ebay for availability. Good luck.

07-31-2010, 11:29 AM	#15
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	One thing that hasn't been mentioned to you is that the TX-SR805 needs to be in either "DIRECT" or "PURE AUDIO" listening modes in order to process DSD directly to analog. In all other modes it will convert to PCM and then use the DSP's. The PCM1796 DAC's employed in the TX-SR805 will only convert DSD directly in those two modes. There is no "HDMI Audio menu set-up" on the 805 for deciding whether or not DSD is handled as PCM, only the listening modes will decide that for you. THX, multi-channel, stereo, all channels, all these modes convert to PCM.

08-01-2010, 03:34 AM	#18
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	Don't see where it says in the manual that a PCM conversion comes into play when you're only dealing with an A/V synch issue. Do you? The manual simply says - In listening modes other than DSD Direct, DSD sources are converted and handled as PCM. The delay is a strange setting, why would you want an A/V sync setting with DSD which contains no video?

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