I went to Best Buy today...

[The Don]

I figured this deserved it's own thread..

okay...I was just looking at DVD players looking for the HD DVD player as I noticed the price tag with no display and they had the whopping total of 5 movies on display (the last samurai was the only worthwhile title)

anyways...someone asked if I needed help...I said I was just looking...and then said...wait, do you have an HD DVD player on display, I wanted to check it out...

he replied.. no, we've been selling so many that we haven't had the chance to put them on display....

okay, whoelse thinks this was him posturing to get me to want to buy one because I was "just looking"?...I highly doubt they are selling out with 5 titles right now...

I even told him I was shocked as they only really have Universal making movies and BD will have a much stronger following...he just said...yeah, I dunno....

and that was that....sounds like pooh to me..

[zombie]

Yes, the reports of the Toshiba HD DVD players selling out are true. However, they only shipped 10,000-15,000 units according to various reports. It isn't hard to sell that many units at launch. We'll see if they're still selling this many in a month or two. From what I've read each Best Buy received 3-5 players per store. It's not too hard to sell out of this small handful when you consider how many early adopters there are. I expect they'll continue to sell all players shipped over the next month but then the sales will slide because it will become increasing obvious with Blu-ray's launch that BD is where the vast majority of studio and hardware support is. So take a deep breath, all of this is to be expected. The real story will be if the Toshiba's continue to sell at these rates throughout the summer.

[Marwin]

This is Toshiba's own planned sales figures of HD-DVD players for the first three months:

According to Toshiba's Tina Tuccillo, vice president of marketing communications, the company expects to sell 30,000 units in the first three months.

Source: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,124961,00.asp

That doesn't sound like too much of a head start.

[SurfingMatt27]

Their selection of player brands is'nt going to help them either.

Let's see you have either RCA which is a rebadged HD-A1, a toshiba, and soon to be announced Thompson and Sanyo and NEC players.Not much variety if you ask me

[The Don]

Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27

Their selection of player brands is'nt going to help them either.

Let's see you have either RCA which is a rebadged HD-A1, a toshiba, and soon to be announced Thompson and Sanyo and NEC players.Not much variety if you ask me

not much of a variety...and the quality is even worse...

it's not like Toshiba is a top 5 brand anyways..

[Marwin]

Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27

Let's see you have either RCA which is a rebadged HD-A1, a toshiba, and soon to be announced Thompson and Sanyo and NEC players.Not much variety if you ask me

Thomson is the company behind the supposedly rebadged RCA-brand HD-DVD player.

Sanyo is focused on selling Blu-ray/HD-DVD OPUs/LSIs to other manufacturers and have put their own HD-DVD player on ice for now (what we heard at CES 2006).

LG has said that they are considering a universal player, but this is most likely still far away (not sure if they've scrapped the non-universal players).

NEC doesn't make stand-alone players, only PC drives (although their HR-1100 drive is in the HD-A1 ).

[JTK]

I've seen fights on certain prominent forums over this but the fact of the matter is this:


HD-DVD and its supporters are relying and praying on two things:

1.) Misinformation

2.) Ignorance

3.) "Average Joe/average consumer" (This is downright laughable for anyone that knows the normal cycle of life in consumer electronics.)

They WANT Best Buy clerks, for example, to pass off misinformation because lying and smokescreens are really the only chance in hell HD-DVD has, when you get down to it.

By glowing margins, WELL INFORMED potential customers and early adopters wouldn't touch HD-DVD with a ten foot pole, and rightly so.


I understand and appreciate sentiments like "I want to watch HD now" and that's all good and fine, but it's purely subjective and emotional. When you go past this sort of thing and start getting down to concrete facts, that's when you'll see HD-DVD supporters start throwing around rhetoric and insults, because the facts are so overwhelmingly not to their advantage or to their liking and they know it.

[SurfingMatt27]

So True^^^^

[zombie]

Originally Posted by JTK

I understand and appreciate sentiments like "I want to watch HD now" and that's all good and fine, but it's purely subjective and emotional. When you go past this sort of thing and start getting down to concrete facts, that's when you'll see HD-DVD supporters start throwing around rhetoric and insults, because the facts are so overwhelmingly not to their advantage or to their liking and they know it.

100% agreement! Nearly every argument HD DVD supporters make can easily be refused with evidence to the contrary. My favorite line is them saying that more support is coming. Oh and Disney recently said they will likely end up supporting both formats. There were no indications that this would happen soon. The way I read it, it seemed more like Disney will support HD DVD too if it's still around next year. Regardless of when it may or may not happen, its sure as hell hasn't happened yet. Still you get clowns stating that Disney is now in both camps. Perhaps even funnier are the HD DVD supporters who think a dual format player is the best option. Not only is this false but it also reeks of desperation. They want dual format players so that when there format dies they can still buy a BD player that will play their discs since their A1 is a POS.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

100% agreement! Nearly every argument HD DVD supporters make can easily be refused with evidence to the contrary.

That's because they have no real arguments based on anything conrete or meaningful.

Again, literally every concrete fact and aspect to this whole thing you wish to name is clearly stacked against thier preferred format.

It's really like taking a knife into a gun fight.

My favorite line is them saying that more support is coming.

And that's when you see the inevitable "average joe customer is going to see this at WalMart and watch the sales!" BS.

What fantasy!

Oh and Disney recently said they will likely end up supporting both formats. There were no indications that this would happen soon. The way I read it, it seemed more like Disney will support HD DVD too if it's still around next year.

Who cares? How is that a plus for HD-DVD or a negative against BR?

It still boils down to: I can get everything on BR right away except Universal studios and patiently wait for Univeral to get their heads out of their butts and at least decide to support both formats like everyone else.

In other words, there's simply no compelling, must-have reason to choose HD-DVD unless, frankly, you're a cheapskate, a die hard Microsoft fan, a die hard Toshiba fan, a die hard Universal fan, or all of the above. That's all there is to it.

Regardless of when it may or may not happen, its sure as hell hasn't happened yet. Still you get clowns stating that Disney is now in both camps.

All you do is ask them to provide a concrete link and source.

At least one of several things happens at that point.

1.) If you're lucky, you're conveniently ignored outright.

and/or


2.) Sidestepping, misdirection, insults, flames, trolls, the usual bag of tricks.

But none of it is ever qualified or backed up and I've let threads go for several pages full of BS and then I come back and simply requote the original post and say: "As expected, nothing concrete to back this up" and it usually kills that thread.

But what's pathetic is: I find myself doing that far too often and I've grown quite tired of it.

So I just don't post on certain forums nearly as much and I tend to avoid certain areas of certain forums.

It's better for my health and sanity. Life is too short.

If people want to be stupid and misinformed and believe lies and waste their money, that's their problem, not mine.

Perhaps even funnier are the HD DVD supporters who think a dual format player is the best option.

Never happen.

The logistics of making a dual deck player and the costs involved make it a pointless option and redundant.

If I'm LG or a heavy hitting neutral like Onkyo/Integra or Denon, am I really going to spend x amount of dollars so some player can play the stray HD-DVD Universal titles while everything else is already on BR anyways?

Pointless!

Not only is this false but it also reeks of desperation.

This thing has reeked of desperation for at least the last 6-8 months.

They want dual format players so that when there format dies they can still buy a BD player that will play their discs since their A1 is a POS.

There's some people on certain forums that I know will not have the guts, the balls, or the integrity to admit as much when they inevitably buy their Sony or Pioneer Elite BR player.

On the other hand, there are some big wig forumers that spend money like water that won't hesitate to start illuminating truth.

There's a certain someone I'm specifically thinking of. You know who it is.

A certain someone that changes out five figure front projectors every few months out of sheer bordeom? This is someone who's credibility is through the roof, and he buys everything just because he feels like it, including HD-DVD Toshiba player.

I can't wait to see what he's going to say when he takes delivery of his Pioneer Elite BluRay player in a couple of months.

Can we say? "Informal shootout" at the very least?

$500 to this person is what he spends on wine every week. When he throws down and some of his fellow high end buddies throw down come mid summer or so...it's going to represent a seismic shift on at least one prominent forum.

As for HD-DVD?

What does it say about a product when you HAVE to rely on a web of propoganda, lies, and deceit on at least one prominent forum in the guise of at least two MS employees in addition to several plants running under alt. handles? Anyone who's been to that forum knows who I'm talking about and which forum I'm talking about.

If you have a good product, you don't need any of the above tactics I just spelled out.

It speaks for itself. I think the whole thing stinks.

[zombie]

I've been outranted.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

I've been outranted.

And I'm in a good mood today, too.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by JTK

And I'm in a good mood today, too.

ahaha good read, though

[JTK]

Originally Posted by The Don

ahaha good read, though

That's kind of been on my chest for a while...as if you all couldn't tell.

[SurfingMatt27]

Originally Posted by nyg

100% agreement! Nearly every argument HD DVD supporters make can easily be refused with evidence to the contrary. My favorite line is them saying that more support is coming. Oh and Disney recently said they will likely end up supporting both formats. There were no indications that this would happen soon. The way I read it, it seemed more like Disney will support HD DVD too if it's still around next year. Regardless of when it may or may not happen, its sure as hell hasn't happened yet. Still you get clowns stating that Disney is now in both camps. Perhaps even funnier are the HD DVD supporters who think a dual format player is the best option. Not only is this false but it also reeks of desperation. They want dual format players so that when there format dies they can still buy a BD player that will play their discs since their A1 is a POS.

Aint that the honest truth, Too many HD-DVD supporters there think that

IMO i think the Toshiba HD-A1 is a POS, i mean it can't even do 720p good which is totally bunk!!! That just tells me the scaler of this player is poor.

I mean come on!..at least make 720p as good as 1080i so that folks with 720p projectors or flat panel displays can have a pure 720p signal with no scaling.

It's funny that so many posters are posting issues about the Tosh yet no one really wants to admit outright that it is a POS!!!

[SurfingMatt27]

Originally posted by JTK
There's a certain someone I'm specifically thinking of. You know who it is.

I know who you're talking about.

[thunderhawk]

Such a nice thread this is Really nice nyg and JTK.
Like that one guy from the blog, his only justification was: the DVD forum supports HD DVD. But what's the BDA then? lol, the DVD forum doesn't have anything to say with these HD formats. If the DVD forum did have some influence and they did do some research, they should've known that AOD (some people on the board who follow the war for quite a while now) is the same as HD DVD but with another name (ofcourse in meantime they did change the format, like adding a 3rd layer that probably won't get into the mass-production process)... So now you see how much technical details and industry support means to the DVD forum. *-*
By the way; I still think the representatives were bribed that day....

[JTK]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Such
By the way; I still think the representatives were bribed that day....

Either that, and/or some folks were smokin' something or had something slipped in thier drinks.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by JTK

Either that, and/or some folks were smokin' something or had something slipped in thier drinks.

or had something slipped into what they were smoking..

[georgir]

i guess its just that most retail shops get just 2-3 players if not less, so displaying one of them could be a problem. they have to sell the unpacked one at a discount later, so why bother?