TV showing 60hz, not 120hz?

[Go Blue]

I have a Samsung LED DLP (HLT5089S) and the display always reads 1080@60 when I am watching TV through my HR20 Directv HDDVR. When I am watching a BD it reads 1080@24. The specs for this TV show that the display rate is 120hz. Does anyone know why the TV won't display it? Any help is appreciated.

[sokrman14]

TV shows are 60Hz and bluray is 24Hz, they chose 120Hz for TV's because both numbers will go evenly into 120Hz.

[Go Blue]

So, will the display on my TV ever show 1080@120? Or, is there a way to see 120hz material?

[WickyWoo]

No, because there's no 120hz material out there

[takezo]

Originally Posted by schultz

I have a Samsung LED DLP (HLT5089S) and the display always reads 1080@60 when I am watching TV through my HR20 Directv HDDVR. When I am watching a BD it reads 1080@24. The specs for this TV show that the display rate is 120hz. Does anyone know why the TV won't display it? Any help is appreciated.

Simple. Broadcasted frequency vs Film frequency vs max frequency of TV.

HDTV that is broadcated at 1080 is actualy 1080i. 1080i draws half the frame every 60th of a second which gives 29.97 full frames a second which is NTSC standard for broadcast. Bluray is 1080p encoded. Film is already 24 FPS when filmed, thus when displayed at it's unaltered true 1080p form, the FPS will remain 24. It's only when 1080p is downsampled to 1080i as with smaller or non 1080p HDTV's, it adds the extra frames in a process known as tellicine. This is the same process that Direct TV does to get 1080i HD broadcasted.

Basically 1080@60 on your TV means it's interlaced or 1080i, and 1080@24 mean it's 1080p.

to get the full 120Hz, you need to connect your TV to PC with a supporting Video Card.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

No, because there's no 120hz material out there

Thanks, thats what i was looking for. Everyone keeps talking about how great 120hz is vs 60hz, but I didn't think there was a way to see it. Do you know how people from stores like Best Buy claim to have seen the difference 120hz makes?

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by takezo

Simple. Broadcasted frequency vs Film frequency vs max frequency of TV.

HDTV that is broadcated at 1080 is actualy 1080i. 1080i draws half the frame every 60th of a second which gives 29.97 full frames a second which is NTSC standard for broadcast. Bluray is 1080p encoded. Film is already 24 FPS when filmed, thus when displayed at it's unaltered true 1080p form, the FPS will remain 24. It's only when 1080p is downsampled to 1080i as with smaller or non 1080p HDTV's, it adds the extra frames in a process known as tellicine. This is the same process that Direct TV does to get 1080i HD broadcasted.

Basically 1080@60 on your TV means it's interlaced or 1080i, and 1080@24 mean it's 1080p.

to get the full 120Hz, you need to connect your TV to PC with a supporting Video Card.

Thanks for your answer. So, other than having your PC connected, what is the point of a 120hz display rate? Why is it so much better than 60hz if there are no video sources that support it?

[WickyWoo]

Thanks, thats what i was looking for. Everyone keeps talking about how great 120hz is vs 60hz, but I didn't think there was a way to see it. Do you know how people from stores like Best Buy claim to have seen the difference 120hz makes?

Well, several things. Your TV is scanning @120hz no matter what, and that helps eliminate motion artifacts and such.

It also gives you 24p compatibility for movie playback

It's absolutely a good thing

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Well, several things. Your TV is scanning @120hz no matter what, and that helps eliminate motion artifacts and such.

It also gives you 24p compatibility for movie playback

It's absolutely a good thing

So, when I am watching TV and hit the display button on my TV and it says 1920x1080@60hz, is it really refreshing @120hz? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

[Proteus]

It won't do 120 until US broadcasts change (perhaps in 2009 with the whatever congressional act about HD). Right now the maximum you can display is 60 frames.

Someone told me this is related to power delivery also (yes, what comes out of the socket) but I don't have _anything_ about that in front of me.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by schultz

I have a Samsung LED DLP (HLT5089S) and the display always reads 1080@60 when I am watching TV through my HR20 Directv HDDVR. When I am watching a BD it reads 1080@24. The specs for this TV show that the display rate is 120hz. Does anyone know why the TV won't display it? Any help is appreciated.

When you hit "info" on the remote with an HLT model it displays what your input to the TV is and not what it is being displayed at. For the HLT LED models the TV native display mode is 1080P@ 60 or 120 HZ. Not sure about the Hz as some people say its 120 while others say its 60. But all input into the tv regardless of resolutions or frequency will be displayed at the TV's native resolution as this makes it look the best. The TV however can accept input in the other formats (480/720/1080i..etc) and display it at the TV native resolution. So that is why you see the info about the input and not the actual display rate as the dispaly rate never changes.

Supposedly 24HZ fits more evenly into 120HZ (24 times 5 equals 120) so the movie playback has less judder when panning as its more accurate. For 60Hz displays though they use a 3:2 pulldown method which is basically not as accurate and judder is more noticeable.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

When you hit "info" on the remote with an HLT model it displays what your input to the TV is and not what it is being displayed at. For the HLT LED models the TV native display mode is 1080P@ 60 or 120 HZ. Not sure about the Hz as some people say its 120 while others say its 60. But all input into the tv regardless of resolutions or frequency will be displayed at the TV's native resolution as this makes it look the best. The TV however can accept input in the other formats (480/720/1080i..etc) and display it at the TV native resolution. So that is why you see the info about the input and not the actual display rate as the dispaly rate never changes.

Supposedly 24HZ fits more evenly into 120HZ (24 times 5 equals 120) so the movie playback has less judder when panning as its more accurate. For 60Hz displays though they use a 3:2 pulldown method which is basically not as accurate and judder is more noticeable.

So, are you saying that my TV actually refreshes @120hz, but the display only says 60hz because of the source?

[WickyWoo]

Correct. Broadcast TV is 1080i/60

Basically 120 is the perfect number for virtually all existing formats (except PAL).

30fps(NTSC x 4)=120
24fps(cinema x 5)=120
60fps(720p, some sports broadcasts and games and future 1080p stuff)x2=120

[Dadds]

Thanks Wicky for the numbers. Really good to know.

[HDTV1080P]

Those specs you are seeing in the display are telling you what type of signal you are receiving. Your direct TV HDDVR most likely is set to output 1080I/60 even when watching 480I programming. The Direct TV receiver is up converting the 480I signal to 1080I/60. Only when watching true HDTV programming at 720P or 1080I will the picture look much better then standard programming. So unless you have a option in the receiver to set the Direct TV receiver to a native resolution output most likely the satellite receiver will always output 1080I/60.
When your Samsung HLT5089S is receiving a 1080P/24 signal from a BLU-RAY player your display should read 1920 X 1080@24. Also if you were watching a ATSC over the air program your Samsung would display something like 720 X 480 and 1280 X 720 along with 1920 X 1080 depending on the broadcast signal mode. The main thing to remember is that the specs showing up on the screen are what the display is receiving and not what the display is displaying.
I just did a search in the manual for the Samsung HLT5089S and it does not mention 120HZ or 120 frames per second info. http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200703/20070326174110812_BP68-00628B-01L03_0309.pdf
All my research is showing me that the display is a 60HZ display. So yes it will input 1080P/24 but the 1080P/24 signal is being converted to 60fps. Now of course the color wheel spins at 120HZ on most models of DLP’s. For example a 6 segment color wheel will rotate at two revelations per frame on a 4X wheel.
Your Samsung 1080P is still a very good display that refreshes all images at 60 frames per second.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Correct. Broadcast TV is 1080i/60

Basically 120 is the perfect number for virtually all existing formats (except PAL).

30fps(NTSC x 4)=120
24fps(cinema x 5)=120
60fps(720p, some sports broadcasts and games and future 1080p stuff)x2=120

So, would PS3 games show as 60hz or 120hz?

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Those specs you are seeing in the display are telling you what type of signal you are receiving. Your direct TV HDDVR most likely is set to output 1080I/60 even when watching 480I programming. The Direct TV receiver is up converting the 480I signal to 1080I/60. Only when watching true HDTV programming at 720P or 1080I will the picture look much better then standard programming. So unless you have a option in the receiver to set the Direct TV receiver to a native resolution output most likely the satellite receiver will always output 1080I/60.
When your Samsung HLT5089S is receiving a 1080P/24 signal from a BLU-RAY player your display should read 1920 X 1080@24. Also if you were watching a ATSC over the air program your Samsung would display something like 720 X 480 and 1280 X 720 along with 1920 X 1080 depending on the broadcast signal mode. The main thing to remember is that the specs showing up on the screen are what the display is receiving and not what the display is displaying.
I just did a search in the manual for the Samsung HLT5089S and it does not mention 120HZ or 120 frames per second info. http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200703/20070326174110812_BP68-00628B-01L03_0309.pdf
All my research is showing me that the display is a 60HZ display. So yes it will input 1080P/24 but the 1080P/24 signal is being converted to 60fps. Now of course the color wheel spins at 120HZ on most models of DLP’s. For example a 6 segment color wheel will rotate at two revelations per frame on a 4X wheel.
Your Samsung 1080P is still a very good display that refreshes all images at 60 frames per second.

This is were I saw the 120hz display rate: http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...5089_final.pdf

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by schultz

This is were I saw the 120hz display rate: http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...5089_final.pdf

You are correct the product brochure mentions 120 HZ refresh (display rate). It would be nice if they would have mentioned 120HZ in the owners manual. Since the Samsung you own is 120HZ it is going to convert 60HZ signals and other material to 120HZ to try and smooth or improve the image. Now we will have to wait for a professional review to see if the Samsung has 4:4 pulldown (96HZ) or 5:5 pulldown (120HZ) when receiving 1080P/24 material. According to the product brochure it mentions 3:2 pulldown technology with 24 frame material. 3:2 pulldown is used to convert 24 fps to 60 fps. It is possible the Samsung does not refresh at multiplies of the original frame and just converts 24 frame material to 60HZ and then 120HZ with a 3:2 pull down process.

[WickyWoo]

So, would PS3 games show as 60hz or 120hz?

Everything displays at 120hz on your screen

PS3 depends on the game what it's actually processing.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Everything displays at 120hz on your screen

PS3 depends on the game what it's actually processing.

Even though everthing actually displays @120hz, are there any PS3 games that would change what the display shows when I hit the info button on the TV's remote from 60 to 120?

Currently, it only changes from 60 to 24 when watching BD's. It shows 60 when watching HDTV, standard DVD's, and the PS3 games and demos I have.