Apparently HD-DVD is in the lead

[ianirvin]

MACWORLD seems to have some news that the rest of the world hasn't noticed. Apparently, Blu-Ray is poised to win the DVD format wars.
Under the somewhat obvious heading "Blu-ray claims it's poised to win DVD format battle", hack Jim Dalrymple conducts a startlingly unbalanced interview with Pioneer senior vice president of product development, Andy Parsons.

Pioneer is one of the few supporters of Blu-ray left with many other drive makers either hedging their bets or going with HD-DVD.

The article trumpets the release of Samsung's first Blu-ray disk player next month, but fails to mention that it has come out late and behind the HD-DVD, which hit the shops in April.

It dismisses supporters of the HD-DVD format who include Toshiba, NEC, Intel and Microsoft because, "when it comes to getting players into people's homes Blu-ray has the power of the consumer electronics companies behind them".

It will be news to Toshiba and NEC that they not consumer electronic outfits any more.

"With content as king, both Blu-ray and HD-DVD went after the motion picture studios to publish content in their respective formats. While there were wins for both sides, ultimately Blu-ray came out on top," waxes the article, lyrically.

Warner, Paramount, Universal, NBC and New Line Cinema have backed HD-DVD. MGM had to be acquired by Sony before it nailed its colours to the Blu-Ray mast, along with 20th Century Fox and Columbia TriStar Group, who went voluntarily.

While most analysts think it is too early to write off Blu-Ray yet, most seem to think that it will have an uphill struggle.

None of this information seems to have been put to Parsons who seems to have been allowed to gabble on about Blu-ray being the best thing since sliced bread.

So why does MacWorld seem to think that HD-DVD is such a loser?

It might be something as obtuse as the fact that Microsoft backs HD-DVD and, natturally, anything the Vole likes must be evil. Other than Intel of course, that is now wonderful

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31674

Aparently having major movie producers agree to only realese movies in the blu-ray format and having the majority of the electronics manufactueres backing blu-ray is a bad thing? acording to this fellow. I liked his article so much I took the liberty of hitting the flame button to let him know just how much I liked it.

[zombie]

HD DVD is in the lead... but only because Blu-ray isn't out yet.

[thunderhawk]

It might be something as obtuse as the fact that Microsoft backs HD-DVD and, natturally, anything the Vole likes must be evil. Other than Intel of course, that is now wonderful

What the hell does M$ and Intel have to do with the consumer electronics?
Do they represent more then the BD-only companies in the BDA???

Argh some people will never understand untill they see BD is the winner with their own eyes.

[phloyd]

People that post crap like this just amaze me.

It is almost like they are religious about this stuff...

I would like to understand what mental disorder they suffer from or who's payroll they are on.

I just can't fathom a rational explanation for these kinds of comments....

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

HD DVD is in the lead... but only because Blu-ray isn't out yet.

Exactly right. And that's the only reason.

[marzetta7]

What's funny is, these same type of people who write articles against Blu-ray will in the same breath claim that Apple actually backs HD DVD because they have some support in their DVD Studio program, throwing away the facts that Apple is on the Board of Directors of the BDA and have officially backed Blu-ray in a coporate statement.

Their spin knows no bounds. In addition the author of this article digs into MacWorld for conducting an unbalanced interview, and yet does he consider what he writes being balanced?

Also, what I found interesting the other day was on the Blu-ray Disc site under Frequently Asked Questions...

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-1...s/4/Index.html

For key differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD, it states that NEC and Sanyo actually support both formats. From what I understand they both used to be exclusively HD DVD. Why hasn't this been in the news, unless it is a typo or something?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-1...s/4/Index.html

For key differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD, it states that NEC and Sanyo actually support both formats. From what I understand they both used to be exclusively HD DVD. Why hasn't this been in the news, unless it is a typo or something?

I think you know the answer.

[hmurchison]

throwing away the facts that Apple is on the Board of Directors of the BDA and have officially backed Blu-ray in a coporate statement.

Apple is a member of the DVD Forum which oversees DVD and now HD-DVD. Blu Ray is a new format and thus their BoD wouldn't obviously be newer than the DVD Forum. So logic has it that we cannot read too much into Apple's plans. I know of no official statement from Apple claiming to support only one format. In fact they make it quite clear that both are supported.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Can someone please point me to a press release from Apple in which they have rescinded support for HD-DVD in lieu of Blu Ray? I want both platforms to do well if the market can sustain them but this site has got to be a beacon for correct information. Wave your flags ...but make sure you keep the deception to a minimum.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

...but make sure you keep the deception to a minimum.

You have no room to talk.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by JTK

You have no room to talk.

Interesting. Where have I attempted to deceive?

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Apple is a member of the DVD Forum which oversees DVD and now HD-DVD. Blu Ray is a new format and thus their BoD wouldn't obviously be newer than the DVD Forum. So logic has it that we cannot read too much into Apple's plans. I know of no official statement from Apple claiming to support only one format. In fact they make it quite clear that both are supported.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html

Well, as most of us know, you'll notice that Sony, Sharp, Samsung, TDK, and Walt Disney are all members of the DVD Forum as well. Do you notice a pattern here in terms of the companies, yup they support Blu-ray exclusively. So, your reference to the DVD Forum is about as worthless as your argument that somehow HD DVD will be the next generation HD format. Regarding Apple's support of only one format, Blu-ray, and this statement...

Can someone please point me to a press release from Apple in which they have rescinded support for HD-DVD in lieu of Blu Ray? I want both platforms to do well if the market can sustain them but this site has got to be a beacon for correct information. Wave your flags ...but make sure you keep the deception to a minimum.

This link ought to be quite telling of what Apple's intentions are other than being on the BDA's board of directors and officially stating their support of Blu-ray...

http://www.hddvdprg.com/about/member.html

You'll find that this link to be a list of the members of the HD DVD promotion group who's purpose is...

The purposes of the Group are to (a) promote the HD DVD format established by the DVD Forum, (b) enhance the development of content and hardware made in compliance with the HD DVD format, and (c) establish and expand the market for such products. For such purposes, the Group shall conduct the following activities ("Purposes"):
i) provide useful information to companies that are interested in HD DVD;
ii) exchange ideas and share information concerning HD DVD among the Group's members, subject to the antitrust policy issued by the Management Meeting; and
iii) promote the HD DVD products.

Then, why, oh why is Apple so noticeably absent from this list if you claim that Apple supports HD DVD? Wouldn't you think Apple would be on this list if Apple was so gung ho on HD DVD support? If anything, Apple's support for HD DVD in their current software is more than likely nothing more than an interim solution until Blu-ray is released seeing how ol Stevie declared 2006 the year of HD, he has to provide something. Couple this with the fact that in the last MacWorld expo, Steve had the president of Sony up on stage speaking about Blu-ray. Moreover, with Steve having stated that he looked forward to "burning Blu-ray discs" I think the writing is on the wall, but somehow, you've become voluntarily illiterate.

I'll also add, that from a corporate perspective, what do you think Apple has to gain by supporting their direct competition's (Microsoft's) format in HD DVD? Doesn't make much sense does it. Apple will always find ways to stick it to Microsoft and by supporting Blu-ray, they're doing just that and thank goodness because with Microsoft in our living rooms, I think the future of HD TV would be a nightmare.

[hmurchison]

your reference to the DVD Forum is about as worthless as your argument that somehow HD DVD will be the next generation HD format. Regarding Apple's support of only one format, Blu-ray, and this statement

Nay. Your point was that Apple joining the BDA BoD was somehow an affirmation of their support for Blu Ray. It is...but this action does not mean they disavow HD-DVD either. [/quote]

Then, why, oh why is Apple so noticeably absent from this list if you claim that Apple supports HD DVD? Wouldn't you think Apple would be on this list if Apple was so gung ho on HD DVD support

I've followed Apple for years. Rarely are they publically viewable on a list. Remember they value secrecy so jumping on every list of their interest isn't something that you'll see. When Apple announced the Airport years ago it came out of left field because Apple was not listed as a member of the consortium that developed and ratified the 802.11b spec.

Marzetta7 Steve also panned flashed based MP3 players until the shuffle came. Steve also panned Intel processors until the day they announced Intel support. Notice a trend here?

Apple is simply not going to stop supporting HD-DVD. They've had the support in DVD Studio Pro 4 for over a year. You just can't pull support from authors. Apple could in fact lean towards Blu Ray but they've already made their bed and there's room for both platforms. Frankly they just want to sell more Final Cut Pro Studio.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Interesting. Where have I attempted to deceive?

"Content helps but it's the penultimate choice. Consumers respond content only after finding the desired product meets their pricing needs."

"Despite having a 'bit' more media and a few more players Blu Ray is still more expensive than HD DVD."

"Blu Ray just got owned today folks. All I've gotten back today is weak rebuttals. We all know consumer will gravitate to the cheaper format regardless of studio support."

"You all know what I know...the cheaper format usually prevails. If HD DVD is $499 now...ask yourself what happens when the Chinese start making them?"

"The problem is that iHD is better than Java for interactivity. HP simply came to their senses on this one."

"HD DVD authors are going to laugh like crazy everytime they see a Blu Ray author compiling just to see their menus."

Oh, just some off the top of my head that I've heard from you on this forum. I'm also quite familiar with your no 50 GB discs, no 100 GB discs, no managed copy, Blu-ray discs are more expensive, etc. predictions on other forums that were a wee bit FUDtastic. So don't start trying to act like a factual saint, as you are far from it.

I don't think anyone is trying to deceive on these boards, as to me, that is too strong a word. Given Apple's corporate stance and other factual information, I think it is a pretty fair assesment as to what direction Apple is going to take in favor of Blu-ray. Especially considering, that after Apple's corporate statment in favor of Blu-ray, headlines read "Apple Backs Blu-ray" in all of its various forms, and not one, not one mentioned "Apple Backs HD DVD." Apple didn't even bother to state in a corporate release (of its own, not buried within the release of the Final Cut Pro applicaton) of its own that they officially back both. Personally, I just think you are grasping at straws, as you now that HD DVD support is pretty much two companies--Toshiba and Microsoft exclusively as it appears NEC and Sanyo will be supporting Blu-ray as well.

In any case, I think we'll know for sure in the next expo from Apple and from future hardware releases; but, I have some premonition that even when we find Blu-ray drives in future MacBooks, MacBook Pros, Mac Pros, iMacs, etc., you'll still be saying, Apple still backs HD DVD! Deceptive, no not really,...illogically fan boyish....yeah.

[hmurchison]

Deception and disagreement are two different things.

Many specs are up in the air which means I'm neither wrong nor right just as you.

[ianirvin]

but wait, there is more from fox-news.

Dvorak: Consumers Lose in DVD Format War

By the end of this year, we'll see exactly which next-generation optical media will be on our desktop computers. Or will we?

The possibility lurks that the final resting place for next-generation media will not be determined for a couple of years. During that time, HD DVD and Blu-ray will fight it out in the consumer market, leaving computer users to languish.

There are a couple of interesting variables in this emerging battle, and the market reaction to them may determine the final outcome.

The most important event to watch may be the bundling of Blu-ray with the Sony PlayStation 3. But this device may have issues and may not become the fabulous success predicted.

Also, the HD DVD folks have recently come up with a unique gambit.

If you buy a new DVD from Warner Home Video, you may get a HD DVD on the other side of the disc.

This is very doable with the HD DVD format: The reflective data layer is deep inside the plastic, so it's easy to make a reversible disc. In fact, the same stamping equipment is used for both technologies, making the process even easier.

Not so with Blu-ray. Stamping out this combination product (DVD and Blu-ray) would take very specialized equipment.

Whatever tricks the marketers pull out of the hat won't make much difference if one of these formats doesn't take off faster than the other. Otherwise all the potential licensing profits are going to be lost to special deals and promotions, so both formats are losers for a long time.

I suspect this will happen, since the upgrade pattern has a rocky road ahead.

The HD formats will not go the way of the record business, where people repurchased their entire vinyl collection to get the better-sounding CDs. This gave the music business windfall profits that it still enjoys two decades later.

In fact, you have to wonder if people will upgrade any of their current DVD collections. I seriously doubt it.

I don't think too many people upgraded their VHS collection to DVDs, either. Movies aren't like music, where you can listen to the same songs over and over. Most people are not rewatching "Groundhog Day" over and over.

And many people upgraded their vinyl collection because the vinyl wore out. DVDs do not wear out. Furthermore, the line-doubling DVD players often provide a credible substitute for HD, negating the absolute need for an HD version of the movie.

New content will be what drives the HD disc sales, so there will be no windfall for the vendors. In fact, this changeover will probably cost everyone a lot of money. Of course they'll blame any losses on "bootlegging" and piracy. That should be good for a laugh.

Meanwhile the computer users are going to have to decide what to do. Dell has chosen to use Blu-ray, and these drives will come on some computers.

But most of these big companies added the now-dead ZIP drives to their machines, too. Remember that dead end?

I'm not in the mood to begin to move my photos from DVD-R discs to either one of these two new formats unless I know that the formats are going to survive.

I definitely cannot see Blu-ray and HD DVD living side by side the way DVD-R and DVD+R have done.

For one thing, among the competing DVD technologies, the combination drives work and their intercompatibility is high (except for the R/W DVD technologies). The difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD is extreme.

Now the big question: If you had to pick one of these two formats today, which would it be?

Can you pick the one that isn't going to become dead media? Are you going to have to worry, ten years from now, that the drive coming off the assembly line is the last one being built? Are you going to have to buy it to transfer all your data from that dead media onto some new format — or onto the other format that you didn't pick in the first place?

Quite simply, these are choices consumers do not want to make. And it's beginning to look as if certain licensing restrictions that prevent the popularization of combination drives are making the situation intolerable.

I'm afraid we're witnessing a train wreck. It looks as if we'll be sticking with our old DVD-writable drives for quite a while longer if something doesn't change fast.

[phloyd]

New question...

Outside of we enthusiasts, does anyone else give a crap about these reports?

I think most tech junkies have made up their own mind or will just get one of each.

This whole situation seems crazy to me.

It will be years before most consumers will care about these formats...

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by phloyd

New question...
Also, the HD DVD folks have recently come up with a unique gambit.

If you buy a new DVD from Warner Home Video, you may get a HD DVD on the other side of the disc.

This is very doable with the HD DVD format: The reflective data layer is deep inside the plastic, so it's easy to make a reversible disc. In fact, the same stamping equipment is used for both technologies, making the process even easier.

Not so with Blu-ray. Stamping out this combination product (DVD and Blu-ray) would take very specialized equipment.

I disagree with this author on more comments than one.

BDA disc manufacturers are already making hybrid discs that will be capable of playing DVD and Blu-ray and whether it will take very specialized equipment or not, the discs from Blu-ray will be here, so I fail to see how this is a unique gambit for HD DVD. More like trying to find some sort of perceived advantage for HD DVD is more like it.

Moreover, this author fails to realize that any delay in adoption for the next HD format will more than likely favor Blu-ray as the PS3 will be selling in the millions regardless as it will be purchased for both its gaming abilities and as a cheaper Blu-ray player alternative. I love his vague reference in that the PS3 "may have issues,"...does he have any information, or is he just pulling something out of his arse? I think it is the latter.

I think that the only thing I agreed with him on was that I, too, don't forsee HD DVD and Blu-ray living side by side with of course Blu-ray becoming the clear victor--as he said it himself, that new content will be what drives new HD sales and with the majority of content coming from Blu-ray...it looks like it will be Blu-ray who will come out on top IMHO.