The Great Debate

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I think that would be great if they went purely Blu-ray. Talking about a kick to Hd-dvd. I cant wait till next month when the real war begins and Blu-ray kicks down the door. I hope they sale like hotcakes and fly by Hd-dvd like they are sitting still. (this is where I would give an evil chuckle, but since its just typing, whats the use?)

What's more important to you? Watching quality HD movies or watching one group of manufacturers get money over another. I'm selfish. I'm strictly about wanting to see a great quality movie at an affordable price. Thus whatever company does the best job of meeting my selfish needs gets my money.

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

What's more important to you? Watching quality HD movies or watching one group of manufacturers get money over another. I'm selfish. I'm strictly about wanting to see a great quality movie at an affordable price. Thus whatever company does the best job of meeting my selfish needs gets my money.

Correct. For me the same. In fact I don't really care about who's gonna win. I want to see full HD movies, the best quality for the best price.
I think it's the same for everyone. Unless you have money invested in some companies... But in general I don't see why it wouldn't be the same.
But when I see, who has what to offer, then I choose for Blu-ray. I may be a BD enthousiast, but I'm definately not a blind supporter.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Correct. For me the same. In fact I don't really care about who's gonna win. I want to see full HD movies, the best quality for the best price.
I think it's the same for everyone. Unless you have money invested in some companies... But in general I don't see why it wouldn't be the same.
But when I see, who has what to offer, then I choose for Blu-ray. I may be a BD enthousiast, but I'm definately not a blind supporter.

Agreed 100 percent, but I think we all know, sadly, that "best quality at best prices" doesn't usually end up happening.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by JTK

Agreed 100 percent, but I think we all know, sadly, that "best quality at best prices" doesn't usually end up happening.

exactly...if HD DVD wins...they easily have the best price...however, Blu-Ray dwarfs them quality-wise...

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by The Don

exactly...if HD DVD wins...they easily have the best price...however, Blu-Ray dwarfs them quality-wise...

I'd have to disagree with this statement as HD DVD does NOT easily have the best price. So far, both low end next generation HD players from both HD DVD and Blu-ray are $499. In addition, discs from both will be selling at the same price. In general, price is equal.

Concerning quality, the upper hand goes to Blu-ray. Moreover, it does matter to me who wins as I want the best format possible for the consumer which includes myself. Not a format from manufacturers that cut corners in quality (of durability, of resolution, of storage space, etc.) just to save themselves a buck while all the while selling us the product (HD DVD) at the same price as the superior product (Blu-ray).

[The Don]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

I'd have to disagree with this statement as HD DVD does NOT easily have the best price. So far, both low end next generation HD players from both HD DVD and Blu-ray are $499. In addition, discs from both will be selling at the same price. In general, price is equal.

Concerning quality, the upper hand goes to Blu-ray. Moreover, it does matter to me who wins as I want the best format possible for the consumer which includes myself. Not a format from manufacturers that cut corners in quality (of durability, of resolution, of storage space, etc.) just to save themselves a buck while all the while selling us the product (HD DVD) at the same price as the superior product (Blu-ray).

do you mean a PS3 as a BD player?....I don't really count them because the quality of the player won't be that great and you won't really be able to get your hands on one unless you reserve it......

you can't say that about any HD-quality player available or one's that will be available anytime soon...

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

What's more important to you? Watching quality HD movies or watching one group of manufacturers get money over another. I'm selfish. I'm strictly about wanting to see a great quality movie at an affordable price. Thus whatever company does the best job of meeting my selfish needs gets my money.

Whats more important to me?
Uh, having the best product on the market win even if it is more expensive at first. I want Blu-ray, not HD-dvd. I'm not blindly loyal, but when I have a choice of 2 products, I choose the better of the 2. In this case thats Blu-ray. I will not ride the fence on this one. I will not buy 2 players. I will not support anything less than the best and end up with a half hearted or 2nd place format. I have made my choice based on which is superior and now I will stick by my choice. If hd-dvd suddenly became better in anyway other than price, I would rethink my choice. But that isnt going to happen. Blu-ray is better with capacity, durability (thanks to Durabis), Quality and Support. You may not like what I have to say, but at least you know where I stand.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by The Don

do you mean a PS3 as a BD player?....I don't really count them because the quality of the player won't be that great and you won't really be able to get your hands on one unless you reserve it......

you can't say that about any HD-quality player available or one's that will be available anytime soon...

Yes, correct, the PS3 as a BD player. Why wouldn't you really count it? How do you know the quality of the player won't be that great?

I ask these questions because the PS3 will be capable of 1080P output (granted for the higher end $599 model), which is better quality as compared to HD DVD from the onset. Furthermore, the PS3 will sell 4,000,000 units before December 31st, compared to HD DVD's units--12,000 to 24,000 units by then. So, really you ought to count it.

[Grubert]

Back to the issue of Paramount, here's what they said back in January:

Paramount joined Warner and Universal at an HD DVD media event on Wednesday.

“We are excited to support the launch of HD DVD with 10 titles from Paramount’s storied library,” said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, worldwide home entertainment.

The studio will have more than a dozen titles ready to go for both formats at launch and later this year, including all three Mission: Impossible movies, the most recent of which is being released in theaters this summer.

But Lesinski said the studio will determine its own definition of what constitutes a “launch” of high-def digital disc players in the market.

A few hundred or a few thousand players at select retailers will not be enough to motivate Paramount to release product, he said.

“When we know there’s enough product out there, we will determine that to be a launch and will then put out product,” Lesinski said.

He predicted that timeframe will be summer or possibly late spring.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6296434.html

[JTK]

^^ Sounds pretty reasonable.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Back to the issue of Paramount, here's what they said back in January:



http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6296434.html

Yeah I remember that article too. Does it suggest that HD DVD sales weren't as big as Paramount had anticipated? They had given release dates for three titles.

[phloyd]

I want to be able to watch HD movies, and I also want to record my own.

That is why I prefer Bluray - the recording options (PC drives) will be there from the beginning. And the capacity will be higher than HD DVD if they ever release recordable discs.

I would tend to agree that people who just want to watch prerecorded discs are most likely format agnostic. I doubt there will be much difference in experience if that is all you want.

[phloyd]

Also on the AVS HD DVD section there is a thread about this. Amir claims to know what the deal is but cannot say

Anyways, it is a hard thread to read if you are not a rabid HD DVD type...

[The Don]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

Yes, correct, the PS3 as a BD player. Why wouldn't you really count it? How do you know the quality of the player won't be that great?

I ask these questions because the PS3 will be capable of 1080P output (granted for the higher end $599 model), which is better quality as compared to HD DVD from the onset. Furthermore, the PS3 will sell 4,000,000 units before December 31st, compared to HD DVD's units--12,000 to 24,000 units by then. So, really you ought to count it.

when I think about the PS3's BD player and the fact the game system has it and is still only 600....I begin to think about how good the DVD player on the PS2 was...

DVD's skip rather easily and it doesn't give you a DVD menu to select from....they will find a way to make it the bare minimum....

not to mention that not many people will be able to get their hands on one for awhile..

[eon007]

I agree with hmurchison, I don't care which format wins. I just want one to go away as soon as possible. Neither format is supperior in what counts. Both formats support 1080p (the first Toshiba player doesn't now but MAYBE with the first firmware flash, or the next player will). In fact, the visual difference between Progressive and Interlaced video is hard to see. Both formats have more than enough capacity to deliver full HD and extra content (I don't need a thousand trailers I've already seen, or a copy of AOL software, or more Sony rootkits, etc on my discs). From a movie viewing experience they are equal. With that said, HD-DVD is here now and less expensive than the projected BD PLAYER costs. I don't count the PS3 because it WILL NOT be full featured (No 5.1 audio output jacks, no front panel display, no menus, no remote, etc). At this point I'd be happy if Blue-Ray went away and the industry could move forward NOW. Not next year or years from now. If BD had arrived first I'd want HD-DVD to go away.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Whats more important to me?
Uh, having the best product on the market win even if it is more expensive at first. I want Blu-ray, not HD-dvd. I'm not blindly loyal, but when I have a choice of 2 products, I choose the better of the 2. In this case thats Blu-ray. I will not ride the fence on this one. I will not buy 2 players. I will not support anything less than the best and end up with a half hearted or 2nd place format. I have made my choice based on which is superior and now I will stick by my choice. If hd-dvd suddenly became better in anyway other than price, I would rethink my choice. But that isnt going to happen. Blu-ray is better with capacity, durability (thanks to Durabis), Quality and Support. You may not like what I have to say, but at least you know where I stand.

There is nothing in the BD-ROM spec that says Durabis will be included. In fact I haven't heard or read of any wins for Durabis on BD-ROM. HD-DVD doesn't "require" a special coating. Nice to see people spinning this as if it's some extra benefit. If you didn't have a thin film coating for Blu Ray you'd be using caddies. The codecs are identical so there's no superiority there. Blu Ray's prime advantage is storage and that's solution looking for a problem since 30GB holds feature length films with extras and realtime commentary.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

Yes, correct, the PS3 as a BD player. Why wouldn't you really count it? How do you know the quality of the player won't be that great?

I ask these questions because the PS3 will be capable of 1080P output (granted for the higher end $599 model), which is better quality as compared to HD DVD from the onset. Furthermore, the PS3 will sell 4,000,000 units before December 31st, compared to HD DVD's units--12,000 to 24,000 units by then. So, really you ought to count it.

Technically incorrect as always. 1080p doesn't automagically make something superior. I've seen HDTV monitors where the 1366x768 model looked better than the 1080i model. In fact the Sony SXRD is lauded as the best looking TV money can buy...ooops 1080i inputs despite 1080p inputs from HP and JVC and Mitsubishi models. Do yoursellf a favor and and stop misleading people that they can point to a spec on a page and choose the higher number and know it's going to look better. We all know that's not true.

[eon007]

I've spent hours compairing progressive to interlaced on the same hardware (TV, DVD player, etc). There is very little visable difference. The magic of HD is that you can view your content on larger screens without pixilation. SD-DVD looks really good on my 19" Dell LCD, but softer on my 60" Sony LCD HD TV.

[Shadowself]

Those are the two things that are strongly in favor of 1080p (both in the ability to display it and in the ability to accept it as input).

If you don't believe the industry will evolve to a "true HDTV standard" being 1080p *and* you never want to view things on a screen larger than about 40-50 inches diagonal, then you don't need to ever support 1080p. It's that simple.

However, if you do believe the industry will migrate to 1080p *or* if you want to view fast action on a 60 inch or larger screen, then you should seriously consider components which will get you to 1080p both in inputs and display, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.

Also, while some people have tried to make a big deal out of the fact that the Durabis coating is not required by the Blu-ray Disk spec, I have not seen anywhere in the HD-DVD spec which requires 1080p output (but I have not read through it in quite a while). Blu-ray systems are already announced with 1080p outputs.

[eon007]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

Those are the two things that are strongly in favor of 1080p (both in the ability to display it and in the ability to accept it as input).

If you don't believe the industry will evolve to a "true HDTV standard" being 1080p *and* you never want to view things on a screen larger than about 40-50 inches diagonal, then you don't need to ever support 1080p. It's that simple.

However, if you do believe the industry will migrate to 1080p *or* if you want to view fast action on a 60 inch or larger screen, then you should seriously consider components which will get you to 1080p both in inputs and display, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.

Also, while some people have tried to make a big deal out of the fact that the Durabis coating is not required by the Blu-ray Disk spec, I have not seen anywhere in the HD-DVD spec which requires 1080p output (but I have not read through it in quite a while). Blu-ray systems are already announced with 1080p outputs.

I agree with you entirely, the standard IS and Will be 1080p. My point is that the visual differnece between progressive and interlaced is minimal. There are much bigger factors that determine visual quality (bit-rates, method of transfer to disc, etc). By the way HD-DVD discs are encoded in 1080p.