Does the lack of profile 1.1 players for the holidays have you concerned?

[lokus]

I am a little concerned for the Blu-ray format that we don't have much information about any low price profile 1.1 players for the holidays. Any thoughts?

[CAB]

Nope, cause the only people that really care about PiP and downloadable content are the four people who each post 731 threads a day on AVpM$.

[lokus]

But do you feel the lack of support will cause problems down the line for releases that won't work on 1.0 players? If consumers start purchasing 1.0 players this holiday season and then buy titles with certain featuers, don't you think they will be somewhat confused and/or feel betrayed?

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by lokus

I am a little concerned for the Blu-ray format that we don't have much information about any low price profile 1.1 players for the holidays. Any thoughts?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I was aware there weren't any Profile 1.1 players arriving this year at all, low or high priced. Nearly every player announced recently is set to launch before the Oct 31st deadline, and the rest aren't being released until next year.

Unless the PS3 gets updated to 1.1, I suspect there won't be a Profile 1.1 player available for the holidays. Again, if I'm wrong please someone correct me. Maybe there's other players that could also be upgraded, but will they be?

And yes, this does concern me because regardless of how widely the feature is used and/or would be used by the end user it DOES give Blu-Ray the appearance of being inferior to the abilities of HD-DVD.

Also, I agree that it could cause issues down the line as it sounded like Disney was set to bring movies to market next year that required 1.1 players for full functionality. How are consumers that bought Blu-Ray players this year for POTC or Cars going to feel next year when they bring a disc for their kids and discover their kids can't play the game listed on the back of the box? I guess we can hope the format war is over by then because I don't think it's going to look very good.

[CAB]

It's my belief, based on expert insider information from these forums, that the only content that will not function is the PiP. Since I think PiP is a gimmick, I don't think people will be missing anything.

I do everything I can to eliminate ambient noise and light that could distract from the, are you sitting down?, the movie. The last thing I want is a huge distraction being sourced by the disc.

[bootman]

I'm a little concerned.
Why not take advantage of the xmas rush this year?
What is really going on with 1.1?
Samsung has already canceled the 2400 release and the 5000 duo might be next.

(it is a 2400 with HDDVD thrown in)

I don't know what is going on.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by bootman

I'm a little concerned.
Why not take advantage of the xmas rush this year?
What is really going on with 1.1?
Samsung has already canceled the 2400 release and the 5000 duo might be next.

(it is a 2400 with HDDVD thrown in)

I don't know what is going on.

Really...can you provide a link or something?

Thanks!

[bootman]

http://wesleytech.com/samsung-bdp-24...-canceled/380/

It's mentioned in the 2400 thread also.

[lokus]

The BDA has a large amount of CE companies on its side but no one is releasing profile 1.1. So to me, it doesn't matter if they have 1,000 CE companies because they still aren't releasing their first final spec with it being over a year since HDM started. Don't get me wrong I back Blu-ray, but I don't think they are going to do that well this holiday season unless they sell a bunch of PS3s. Maybe I should be a bit more positive...

[LynxFX]

The general public hasn't a clue what Profile 1.1 is and for all extent and purposes never will. Hell even die hard electronic geeks don't fully understand it.

Seeing as the PS3 will be my only player for awhile and I'm fully confident that it will be classified as a 2.0 player very soon, I'm not worried.

[Beta-guy]

tbh the only people I think who are really complaining about lack of profile 1.1 are HD-DVD fanboys who are saying "well we have it, don't you?" the real thing to think about tho is who wants to be sitting there watching a great movie and see a box that takes up a portion of the screen with some guy chatting about how they did the production...

on DVD's they put that under the special features section, if anyone really cared about it, I personally watch the movie and any deleted scenes/alternate endings so this really doesn't effect me.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Beta-guy

tbh the only people I think who are really complaining about lack of profile 1.1 are HD-DVD fanboys who are saying "well we have it, don't you?" the real thing to think about tho is who wants to be sitting there watching a great movie and see a box that takes up a portion of the screen with some guy chatting about how they did the production...

on DVD's they put that under the special features section, if anyone really cared about it, I personally watch the movie and any deleted scenes/alternate endings so this really doesn't effect me.

As I posted in another thread, The real point isn't if we think the 1.1 features are useless, but the perception of a product with less features than the competition to the general public.

Marketing wise, this isn't a good thing since we can't currently make a point on price either. (hopefully that will change soon also)

Got to think big picture, and this might turn out to be a pretty big stumbling block this XMAS if not treated properly by the BDA now.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I was aware there weren't any Profile 1.1 players arriving this year at all, low or high priced. Nearly every player announced recently is set to launch before the Oct 31st deadline, and the rest aren't being released until next year.

Unless the PS3 gets updated to 1.1, I suspect there won't be a Profile 1.1 player available for the holidays. Again, if I'm wrong please someone correct me. Maybe there's other players that could also be upgraded, but will they be?

And yes, this does concern me because regardless of how widely the feature is used and/or would be used by the end user it DOES give Blu-Ray the appearance of being inferior to the abilities of HD-DVD.

Also, I agree that it could cause issues down the line as it sounded like Disney was set to bring movies to market next year that required 1.1 players for full functionality. How are consumers that bought Blu-Ray players this year for POTC or Cars going to feel next year when they bring a disc for their kids and discover their kids can't play the game listed on the back of the box? I guess we can hope the format war is over by then because I don't think it's going to look very good.

ask your self this:
does your blu-ray player have a network port, can you upgrade the firmware of your blu-ray player...if so you have nothing to worry about.
java is just like the IHD. just a little more robust. the hardware in bd players need to have 128 MB of Ram in order to run 1.1..1.0 only required (64k) can you say in today's CE companies production of hardware that they are not produceing machines with atleast with 128 MB of flashable Ram with how cheap that ram is to produce . if they already knew what the profile 1.1 was going to be.even sci-calc. have more than (64k) of ram....

this is the SAME FUD i have been hearing since IHD was the defacto interactive software of HD DVD AND not blu-ray THE FACT THAT Blu-Ray is Java instead means the SOFTWARE is robust to add functions to the software. the only limitation would be the hardware. with all the CE companies involved in the development of Blu-Ray. do you think for a sec. that they did not have the forsight to put in better hardware than the MIN requirements for software since the software can be added to with little so ram and storage requirements...

look at the playstation 3..by far the single largest amount of blu-ray players on the market and it has all the required hardware for BD-J 2.0.

Funai is putting out a BD-J 2.0 player that the price is arround less than $500.00

so how many $1000.00 Blu-Ray standalone players from last year 2006 up to now, do you think cannot upgrade with firmware ....?
is there any Blu-Ray player's that do not allow firmware updates...? if so please list them....?

[Jim L]

It is not important for enjoying what BD is all about.

The only reason it is being hammered on is because the HD-DUD fanbois have lost most of their original talking points. It's really pathetic how they cling to this as a format advantage.

Now, there is a valid reason to want this ironed out (and soon!): Warner. We are missing some key titles because of this. (I also want Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and The Matrix trilogy!)

Don't worry about this folks. The hardware CE companies will definitely have players that accomodate it. Right now for the end of the year holiday sales, the BDA is also pushing for lower priced players to increase our player base. That is also very important.

And remember this one point: The largest chunk of the Blu-ray player installed base at this point is the PS3. I am confident that it can do PIP (and anything else in profile 1.1). And this capability can be turned on by a simple firmware update.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Jim L

It is not important for enjoying what BD is all about.

The only reason it is being hammered on is because the HD-DUD fanbois have lost most of their original talking points. It's really pathetic how they cling to this as a format advantage.

Now, there is a valid reason to want this ironed out (and soon!): Warner. We are missing some key titles because of this. (I also want Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and The Matrix trilogy!)

Don't worry about this folks. The hardware CE companies will definitely have players that accomodate it. Right now for the end of the year holiday sales, the BDA is also pushing for lower priced players to increase our player base. That is also very important.

And remember this one point: The largest chunk of the Blu-ray player installed base at this point is the PS3. I am confident that it can do PIP (and anything else in profile 1.1). And this capability can be turned on by a simple firmware update.

that is also not just the playstation 3 i have found all current blu-ray player's as far as i know have the ability to update the firmware. so unless the player cannot update its firmware than i could see the player not being profile 1.1 to 2.0 enabled. other than that the FUD about this so called issue about blu-ray players not being able to update to 1.1 "since that is nothing but a rumor" anyway this FUD being spread around the NET is getting to be pretty D@MN pathetic.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by joeorc

...the hardware in bd players need to have 128 MB of Ram in order to run 1.1..1.0 only required (64k) can you say in today's CE companies production of hardware that they are not produceing machines with atleast with 128 MB of flashable Ram with how cheap that ram is to produce . if they already knew what the profile 1.1 was going to be.even sci-calc. have more than (64k) of ram....

Isn't the 1.1 mem requirement 256 megs min and for 2.0 one 1gig?

However, the actual PIP features of 1.1 vs HD-DVD isn't the only thing about this, but I agree what is more important is that actual titles are being held back because of this.
Just calling this issue FUD and closing your eyes, doesn't change this fact.
Now if you think that it isn't a big deal for this xmas season then I think its time to take the blu glasses off.
The BDA does need to step it up here.

[NutsAboutPS3]

The BDA really need to get this sorted out. We need players on the market that meet the final spec, and we need to stop selling players that don't meet the final spec. Until this happens, HD DVD will have this as a talking point.

It doesn't matter if we don't care about PiP, studios are producing discs that use it, and it's delaying the availability of Blu-ray content. Allowing the sale of 1.0 players to continue indefinitely will just cause consumer confusion when they buy a player and find the discs they bought to go with it don't work properly on it.

joeorc, although players allow firmware updates, there is a limit to what these updates can achieve. The hardware doesn't have unlimited power, and standalones are only going to be upgradeable to 1.1 if they were built with the necessary hardware to decode a 2nd video stream. The PS3 almost certainly has sufficient power, but many standalones won't have.

So while the whole thing is a non-issue to me personally as I very rarely watch special features, I think as an ongoing issue it has been, and will continue to be, very damaging to Blu-ray in the format war.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by bootman

Isn't the 1.1 mem requirement 256 megs min and for 2.0 one 1gig?

However, the actual PIP features of 1.1 vs HD-DVD isn't the only thing about this, but I agree what is more important is that actual titles are being held back because of this.
Just calling this issue FUD and closing your eyes, doesn't change this fact.
Now if you think that it isn't a big deal for this xmas season then I think its time to take the blu glasses off.
The BDA does need to step it up here.

sorry it is 256MB of Ram...IT is FUD if there is no actual facts about current players not being able to be updated..is there any facts about current player's that do not not have enough of the flash ram for firmware updates.?
the point is no sense in rushing the software if the player plays the movie just fine. its better to get the software finished .

Just because they have not done updates for players yet ,does not mean that the current players cannot be updated . people are trying their best to make this an issue that may/or may not be there the same was said about the playstation 3 not being able to upscale movies ..that the playstation 3 could not do that ..what happened..does the playstation 3 upscale . that is the whole point of firmware updates.i do not get why some people are seeing "waiting as a problem" before they jump to conclusions.

[joeorc]

[QUOTE=NutsAboutPS3;247077]The BDA really need to get this sorted out. We need players on the market that meet the final spec, and we need to stop selling players that don't meet the final spec. Until this happens, HD DVD will have this as a talking point.

It doesn't matter if we don't care about PiP, studios are producing discs that use it, and it's delaying the availability of Blu-ray content. Allowing the sale of 1.0 players to continue indefinitely will just cause consumer confusion when they buy a player and find the discs they bought to go with it don't work properly on it.

joeorc, although players allow firmware updates, there is a limit to what these updates can achieve. The hardware doesn't have unlimited power, and standalones are only going to be upgradeable to 1.1 if they were built with the necessary hardware to decode a 2nd video stream. The PS3 almost certainly has sufficient power, but many standalones won't have.

So while the whole thing is a non-issue to me personally as I very rarely watch special features, I think as an ongoing issue it has been, and will continue to be, very damaging to Blu-ray in the format war.[/QUOTE]

the highlighted in red is my point about this very thread you are trying to point out that the current players outside the playstation 3 cannot be updated like the anti-blu-ray pro hd dvd SUPPORTERS HAVE BEEN..how do you know for sure THAT THE CURRENT PLAYERS CANNOT BE UPDATED...that's my point unless you open up the player and look at the chips and that or have the ISERP product catalog handy there is no way outside of the company that built the machine to know other wise.
other than that its just people are jumping to conclusions because the software has not been done fast enough for some people.

hell their GUESS may be true but untill it can be proven otherwise that the current player's cannot its just a RUMOR . and people spreading arround RUMOR's like they are FACTS are just makeing the FUD being accepted as fact's when there is no fact's to start with.

[CYMBOL]

It hurts Blu-rays image without it. They need to be going full steam ahead on this one.

If the PS3 can't do it, there will be many, many pointing fingers and laughing happening. Sony can't have their flagship Blu-ray player/game console not being "up-to-specs".

I hope they can do it.

And I hope they can give us some "bitstream" support too.