Films shot in Dolby Vision?

[kristoffer]

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

Is current technology up to filming it or dsplaying it? The light output is much higher, so something taking it in would probably have to be digital - anathema to old-school Hollywood.


Vizio's 120" 4K television was vaporware (no surprises, they're notorious for that) but it was the only unit I've heard of that was using the Dolby technology for the set. It had people floored, it was so sharp and bright. That's all I've seen for home playback - perhaps everybody is waiting for a serious 4K market to develop, nothing else will do justice for it.


In theaters, can projectors keep up?


I hope it gets popular, I've heard amazing things.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

Motion pictures aren’t really ‘shot’ in Dolby Vision, more like (can be) ‘mastered’ in an extended (high) dynamic range format, be it Dolby Vision or other. There is a short film which should debut at a film festival next year which was ‘mastered’ in high dynamic range on a DaVinci Resolve 11 – https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...davinciresolve , shot by a former President of the American Society of Cinematographers and Husky (dog) lover . Who also worked on the DCI StEM Digital Projection Test material, as described several years ago -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In that regard, the StEM (movie short) was a collaborative effort between American Society of Cinematographers and DCI. More than two hours of film were captured in 35mm (and to be completely accurate, a small amount in 65 mm also) by a world-class team of ASC cinematographers. The footage featured a bunch of scenes with a variety of lighting conditions, colors, textures and other variables of photographic definition including rain, confetti, fog, smoke, etc. The footage accumulated was intentionally made to stress the system (i.e. theatrical presentation of the imagery). It was edited down to a mini-movie consisting mostly of 35mm original source and a little bit of 65mm. Eastman negative 5218 (think Van Helsing) was the primary stock and 5245 was used for the shot tilting down from the sky.

The location was Uni’s “European Village" backlot with a wedding scene (b.t.w., the groom in a tuxedo and the bride in a wedding gown is a great way to test blacks and whites) set-up similar to the one in The Godfather. The StEM material also includes some 4k CGI from Disney’s Treasure Planet.

[Richard Paul]

I have to say that Dolby is doing a good job of promoting their HDR system. While I would prefer more details on what they mean when they talk about more colors the Dolby Cinema website is well made.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Motion pictures aren’t really ‘shot’ in Dolby Vision, more like (can be) ‘mastered’ in an extended (high) dynamic range format, be it Dolby Vision or other. There is a short film which should debut at a film festival next year which was ‘mastered’ in high dynamic range on a DaVinci Resolve 11 –

To get the full effect of Dolby Vision wouldn't everything (filming, CGI, post-production) have to be made with it? Excluding conversions done after the movie is completed that sounds like it would be costly.

[steve1971]

Now this is something I would be interested in.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I have to say that Dolby is doing a good job of promoting their HDR system. While I would prefer more details on what they mean when they talk about more colors the Dolby Cinema website is well made.

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres. It showed a theatre rendering with acoustic panels, but without any surround or ceiling speakers and then it presented Atmos incorrectly, since it showed lines emanating from the screen to the ceiling and surrounds, instead of the ceiling and surrounds emanating to the seats. And really, who needs all that A/V in the corridor leading into the theatre - you'd spend $1 million or more for a spot that most patrons wouldn't spend more than 20 seconds standing. And you know that super-wide display would be used for advertising. I'd rather they spend that money in the theatre itself for better sound, projection or showmanship.

That theatre design looked more appropriate to a museum exhibit. I bet that site was designed out-of-house, by an agency that didn't really know what they were doing.

While the overall Dolby website has gotten more interesting from a graphic design standpoint, it's far less practical - it's harder to find the information you're looking for, harder to find theatre or film listings and harder to find product brochures than it used to be.

As far as more colors are concerned, they do say it's got to be 10 or 12 bit. But they don't say if they'll be following BT2020 or some new standard. I can say that I've seen the Dolby monitor and it's quite amazing. The colors in that monitor are breathtaking. And this encoding format, whatever it is, does require decoding (and license) in the playback device, but I don't think Dolby has anything "real" as yet.

[slimdude]

Dolby is forevermore trying to compete with themselves. What else are they going to come up with!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

To get the full effect of Dolby Vision wouldn't everything (filming, CGI, post-production) have to be made with it? Excluding conversions done after the movie is completed that sounds like it would be costly.

With modern day digital cameras, and even film (celluloid) for that matter, the RAW image already contains the extended dynamic range. Colorists can see it, it’s just that the end user doesn’t with current SDR mastering, e.g. from almost a year ago -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The great value of HDR for imagery comes as no surprise to colorists who have worked with Dolby’s LCD reference color grading monitor, the PRM 4200 or 4220, which some post houses use in their mastering and whose colorists have ever experimented with Dolby’s HDR ACES output display transform to allow movie content to be viewed in HDR and P3 color space while in the DYN operational mode (maximum luminance of 600 nits).

Then, afterwards, when flipping back to traditional non-HDR mode, it’s amazing how much RAW imagery (be it from the Alexa, RED, Sony--whatever high end camera be your acquisition device) is clipped at 100 nits.

The problem is that with high or extended (as Dolby actually prefers calling it) dynamic range is that it is even less forgiving than shooting in 4K which, in terms of the cost issue which you bring up, could potentially push make-up, set design, etc. to *up their game*. Additionally, I would say that in order to get ‘the full effect’ or the best effect out of Dolby Vision or any high dynamic range solution will be to light the scene in a way that would make the most out of an HDR finish…which could contribute additional cost. And the best way to check the lighting of a scene would be with the use of an HDR on-set monitor, of which, as of now, there is no practical product available for D.P.’s.

The producer can always have a colorist do an HDR pass on a good dynamic range element from a high end modern day digital camera or even film and produce something better than SDR mastering if the Director and colorist work collaboratively at it but, to get the full effect out of any HDR finish I think it would be optimal to have that finish in mind from the get-go and structure the production accordingly…which could incur additional cost. This is all new territory and the learning curve for everyone has just begun.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Dolby is forevermore trying to compete with themselves. What else are they going to come up with!

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/d...ng-corporation

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres.

I think it is mainly to get people interested in the idea of Dolby Cinema and to try to sell that idea to theater owners.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As far as more colors are concerned, they do say it's got to be 10 or 12 bit. But they don't say if they'll be following BT2020 or some new standard.

It would be nice if Dolby provided more details about Dolby Vision and a bit less marketing fluff. Dolby has released a white paper about Dolby Atmos but they haven't done that with Dolby Vision.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The problem is that with high or extended (as Dolby actually prefers calling it) dynamic range is that it is even less forgiving than shooting in 4K which, in terms of the cost issue which you bring up, could potentially push make-up, set design, etc. to *up their game*. Additionally, I would say that in order to get ‘the full effect’ or the best effect out of Dolby Vision or any high dynamic range solution will be to light the scene in a way that would make the most out of an HDR finish…which could contribute additional cost. And the best way to check the lighting of a scene would be with the use of an HDR on-set monitor, of which, as of now, there is no practical product available for D.P.’s.

The producer can always have a colorist do an HDR pass on a good dynamic range element from a high end modern day digital camera or even film and produce something better than SDR mastering if the Director and colorist work collaboratively at it but, to get the full effect out of any HDR finish I think it would be optimal to have that finish in mind from the get-go and structure the production accordingly…which could incur additional cost. This is all new territory and the learning curve for everyone has just begun.

For something like a nature documentary I could see Dolby Vision being easy to do but for movies it sounds difficult. I would like to see a movie made from the start for Dolby Vision but I get the feeling that most movies will be some kind of HDR conversion. While I would prefer an update to the DCI standard it does seem like Dolby is going to bet a lot on Dolby Vision.

[Bobby Henderson]

Dolby intends to have Dolby Cinema function as a real ''premium" movie-going experience. But, yes, Dolby must first sell movie theater operators and movie studios on the idea for it to get anywhere.

Dolby Cinema will follow a formula somewhat similar to IMAX' approach. Dolby (and perhaps partnering movie studios) would pay for the expensive laser projection and audio hardware going into the theater. The movie theater operator would provide the building. Dolby and its partners would take a cut of the box office money to pay for sound/vision hardware.

Some aspects of who would pay for what are unclear. Would the theater operator have to pay for the fancy signage and huge animated video wall in the auditorium's entrance? If that wall is a LED-based "jumbotron" display it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars on its own, particularly if it is high resolution.

At any rate, Dolby has to do something to keep its brand visible in movie theaters.

A movie-goer must deliberately go out of his way to find theaters equipped with Dolby Atmos or Dolby 3D. Hollywood studios are doing next to nothing to promote those formats. When you look at a movie poster these days all you see is IMAX and RealD. Dolby Cinema would change that and get the Dolby brand visible once again on movie posters, trailers, etc.

It's still going to be a challenge to get movie productions on board with Dolby Cinema.

Not all that many movies are mixed in Dolby Atmos and of the ones that are released with Dolby Atmos not many of those have mixes which do much with the format. I've seen a few Atmos movies were the track didn't sound much different than a standard 5.1 or 7.1 track. Really "immersive" mixes like the Atmos mix of Gravity are more rare.

I think it's going to be an even bigger challenge getting the Dolby Vision aspect of Dolby Cinema widely supported. I don't like them using "HDR" when describing it. I associate HDR with all those garish, surreal images I see coming from the still photography world. Imagery in Dolby Vision must still look natural. On top of that, it still has to look like a film-originated movie. The top complaint about 48fps HFR shows is that it looks like videotape from a soap opera or the 6 o'clock news. Lots of movies these days have very muted, dreary color schemes. Sometimes they look like a view through a urine filled fish tank. How will Dolby Vision fit in with that? Wider dynamic range may also mean a significantly bigger color bit depth, both in shooting and post production. That's going to raise production costs.

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres. It showed a theatre rendering with acoustic panels, but without any surround or ceiling speakers and then it presented Atmos incorrectly, since it showed lines emanating from the screen to the ceiling and surrounds, instead of the ceiling and surrounds emanating to the seats.

The speakers will be hidden from view behind all those angled acoustic panels. I don't mind the idea from an aesthetic viewpoint. Some theaters and private screening rooms have been hiding the surround speakers for many years. A Dolby Atmos system has LOTS of surround speakers, probably enough to create at least some issues with sound wave reflections. The Dolby Cinema concept tries to eliminate as much of that as possible.

BTW, the one thing I really do not like in the Dolby Vision concept: the floating screen. It has no masking, much less no curtains. Something shot in HD aspect ratio (1.77:1) or flat (1.85:1) may fill the screen. But 'scope 2.39:1 movies will be letter-boxed, just like on the TV set at home. The screen even looks like the display from one of those late 1970's era projection screen TV sets. I would like the Dolby Cinema concept more if it had a proper masking and curtain setup for the screen, and if the room wasn't so barren and stark looking.

IMHO, Warren Theaters has a better idea of just what the movie-going public wants in theater aesthetics. They're about to open a new $45 million multiplex in Broken Arrow, OK just outside of Tulsa. The two biggest "Grand Infinity" houses have ornate decor and premium balcony seating for adults age 21 and up. Those two houses will be the first in the United States to utilize 4K laser projectors full time to the movie-going public. The sound systems in all 18 screens are THX certified. The Grand Infinity houses will be equipped with Dolby Atmos, wired and amplified in its maximum 64-channel configuration.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think it is mainly to get people interested in the idea of Dolby Cinema and to try to sell that idea to theater owners...

Wait till they find out the cost of the build out.

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

For something like a nature documentary I could see Dolby Vision being easy to do but for movies it sounds difficult. I would like to see a movie made from the start for Dolby Vision but I get the feeling that most movies will be some kind of HDR conversion.

Well, to keep things in perspective, that wouldn’t be sooo bad, contrary to the rushed-out-the-door early 3D conversions that were produced back in the day.

For one thing, unless one is referring to the HDR conversion (remastering) of old motion pictures (a la Rob Marshall’s Chicago in Dolby Vision), a new motion picture really wouldn’t be an HDR conversion, per se, even if one exactly exposes scenes as you typically would for only a traditional digital cinema finish (standard dynamic range) and then in post production do an ‘HDR’ finish because the HDR finish would actually come first (be your primary grade or hero master) and then with the aid of the DV plugin you’d then do a quick trim pass for other (standard dynamic range) deliverables.

It’s just that in order to get the ‘full’ effect out of any high/extended dynamic range solution that can leverage the broad dynamic range at the sensor level of high end digital cameras, or film, I think there will have to be additional adjustments (incurring cost) on set during the production process.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Dolby intends to have Dolby Cinema function as a real ''premium" movie-going experience. But, yes, Dolby must first sell movie theater operators and movie studios on the idea for it to get anywhere.

Bobby's back
I thought one of dem hurricanes got you.

[kristoffer]

Star Wars The Force Awakens could become the first film released in Dolby Vision HDR http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...redirect=false

The Ari Alexa and the new Sony cameras also have the ability to capture the dynamic range of HDR.

[Thomas Irwin]

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Star Wars The Force Awakens could become the first film released in Dolby Vision HDR http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...redirect=false

Carolyn is one of the finest reporters in Hollywood because not only does she provide cutting edge news but in doing so, she doesn’t kiss the arse of her sources in her reporting, interviews, etc., like some others do to further their careers.

To add on to something which she said…”many insiders from Hollywood's technology community believe that consumers will see a noticeable difference with HDR, compared with the more widely touted "Ultra HD" 4K resolution and high frame rates”

it’s not exclusively insiders from Hollywood, but people outside Hollywood also. In regards to that, tomorrow in Paris, new results from the 4Ever consortium regarding testing of HDR and HFR will be presented at 4:05 P.M. http://www.mesclado.com/wp-content/u...v6-English.pdf

But, keep in mind, as has been said before - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...te#post7325076

4K or increased spatial resolution alone has increased peoples’ awareness (and resultant R&D) of the other attributes (greater bit depth, HDR, HFR, WCG) of UHD included in BT 2020. Sure, one of your children may be brighter or faster than the others, but when queried to that regard as to who/what is *best* at the last SMPTE Tech Conference this past October, the keynote speaker (a Netflix Director) responded to the inquisitor with something like ‘we love all our children equally’ for he realizes the BIG picture, the business realities and how the consumer electronics industry works.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

The Ari Alexa and the new Sony cameras also have the ability to capture the dynamic range of HDR.

As does the Red Dragon…still unsure though if it is as great as 18 f-stop as the company claimed - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...im#post8569119 as I haven’t followed that aspect of the Dragon in quite some time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Thomas Irwin

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

apparently

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Thomas Irwin

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

And Chicago in Dolby Vision has gained almost zero traction since Dolby announced the format. Truth be told, Dolby is desperate for anything as they are no longer the relevant cinema company they once were. This Dolby Cinema is not going to work.

[Penton-Man]

Well, I’d like to see it succeed, at least for the folks in Eindhoven, as I don’t think $18.00/ticket is unreasonable.