Dirty AC Power

[airwedge1]

I found an insert in my POTC 3 BD that says some crap about dirty ac power degrading your tv performance, and you should buy a "Monster Power" unit. Is there any truth at all behind this, and if it is true, is there a product out there that is not Monster?

My intuition tells me that is is a complete lie, or only applies to homes with 50 year old electrical in them.

[darkpoet25]

You can get a power line conditioner from someone other than Monster Cable. It's just they are a more recognized brand name. Yes a line conditioner/power surge protector does make a difference. It helps to keep elctrostatic charges and line noise from screwing with the overall picture and it protects equipment from damaging lightning strikes and power surges.

[DefTechPioElite]

If you want the most out of you home theater system, a line conditioner is definitely a must. Think of it this way, is you car's engine going to run it's best if you never change your oil and let it get dirty? Well, is your home theater going to perform its best if you run it on dirty noise polluted power? And trust me, 9/10 you have dirty power. Monster is good, if you're REALLY into sound quality go with a Furman, but I use Panamax.

[m6bigdog]

That was obviously a sales ad from Monster.
So do you believe all that you see, I don't.

Electronics equipment doesn't use the AC line power directly - it is converted to usable DC power inside the equipment. The power supply in most electronics equipment is more than adequate to filter out issues with noise and RF on the AC line power.
If the power is that BAD I would contact the utility company and ask them to fix it or get the wiring within the residence repaired.

After that, Monster is just a company that is feeding on your fears and lack of knowledge to sell you unnecessary and overpriced accessories.

[B-rad]

Yeah it is a good idea. Harmonics from the power feeding your equipment can not only cause damage but degrade quality. Cheap way is to have a dedicated ground to that plug. But.. if you don't know what you are doing it can be a "shocking" experience. Another ways is to have some sort of filter. Monster being the most well known and by that most $$$$

[all_blu_man]

Monster power is a definitely must have. Yes it is expensive but it is worth it specially if you buy an equipment that is worth over $1000 or even $500 actually. The cheapest clean power they have is like $99 in Canada so it is probably cheaper in the US. I work in audio/video, we have dirty power testers and you can HEAR the difference. All my tvs and electronic equipment in my house have monster power and IT MAKES A PRETTY BIG DIFFERENCE at least what I see on TV.

[blujacket]

Snakeoil

[Iceman_II]

Originally Posted by blujacket

Snakeoil

+1

A good UPS on the other hand is a must have as far as I am concerned (and they will condition the power as well) Think about it, the PS3, your Tivo, your dish/direcTV DVR, etc... they are all computers. Hell, even a standalone is a computer, it runs Java doesn't it?

Treat your components like computers and protect them from power spikes AND drops... but you sure as HELL don't need to spend the kind of coin monster charges!

[The Guardian]

For about $200 installed you can surge-protect your entire house. $500 if you want to go high-end with it. The fuse is plugged directly into the side of your fusebox. The cheaper ones are just fuses and must be replaced if they blow, but it takes a LOT to blow them (ie a lightning strike).

It won't save you if lightning hits your house because it's already in the house (at that point likely your UPS units won't save your computer either hehe) but it will save everything in your house (think fridge, stove, everything plugged in) if lightning hits right next to you...

I also picked up 4 used UPS units with unopened spare batteries from a business closing down for $15 each... 1 for each of 3 computers, and the fourth powers the cable modem, router and cordless phone, so lots of stuff still works if the power goes out.

[m6bigdog]

I disagee with the "Must Have".
However, if you must have one enjoy it.

You won't find one manufacture of consumer electronics equipment - except those that have an ore in the power conditioning market - recommend them for the PQ & SQ of their product.

This topic has been discussed to death.

Equipment designers (including myself) know what they are doing and they are aware of line voltage fluctuations and noise.
You best believe the design of the equipment power supply includes filtering for the line voltage issues. If not the world of computers and consumer electronics would have ground to a hault a long time ago. Digital systems have even a greater amunity to RF and other EMI induced interference.

Yes, AC Line Power has all kinds of switching noise and harmonics on it from other equipment connected to the local power panel circuits and the way the power supply is designed so those anomalies are filtered out and have no affect what so ever on the circuits connected to the power supply and attempting to clean up the power provides no additional benifit.

If a power conditioner improves the PQ or SQ of your system you will have more problems in you future.

Also, a power conditioner will not save your equipment from a near lightening strike, as that will take out everything in your house. If you live in a lightening area you will want a good lightening rod and lightening rated surge protectors on your incoming AC line power with a TVSS at the equipment. The transient voltage surge suppressor are all you need, are inexpensive and are included in a most computer equipment power distribution boxes (relocatable power taps).

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by m6bigdog

You won't find one manufacture of consumer electronics equipment - except those that have an ore in the power conditioning market - recommend them for the PQ & SQ of their product.

I'd hope that the reason for this would be rather obvious to everyone here: any company admitting that their equipment might produce a better picture or better sound if power is delivered to it through a line conditioner would of course be admitting that their engineering and/or components are substandard. Not something a rational business would want to do IMHO.

Originally Posted by m6bigdog

Equipment designers (including myself) know what they are doing and they are aware of line voltage fluctuations and noise.
You best believe the design of the equipment power supply includes filtering for the line voltage issues. If not the world of computers and consumer electronics would have ground to a hault a long time ago. Digital systems have even a greater amunity to RF and other EMI induced interference.

Other engineers, such as myself, have designed systems as well and some of us believe the multiple redundancy is a good thing of course most of the systems I helped design are in orbit so repair was a bit of an issue thus making redundancy an absolute necessity. Even if today's electronics have a very high tolerance for line noise I can't think of a valid reason to not use a line conditioner other than the small increase in the cost of the system.

Originally Posted by m6bigdog

Also, a power conditioner will not save your equipment from a near lightening strike, as that will take out everything in your house. If you live in a lightening area you will want a good lightening rod and lightening rated surge protectors on your incoming AC line power with a TVSS at the equipment. The transient voltage surge suppressor are all you need, are inexpensive and are included in a most computer equipment power distribution boxes (relocatable power taps).

Very true but if a manufacturer will back up their lightning warranty these boxes can be fairly cheap insurance against just such a catastrophe but everyone should understand that they won't save a system from a direct hit or near miss.

YMMV on these products but I've used Furman's units for years in my gigging rack and despite having played in places where the lights popped off and on and even one gig where a console ground caused an arc from a mic to the singer's lips strong enough to trip a breaker and knock out the house lights I've never , in around 20 years of use, lost a piece of gear plugged into a quality unit.

For the home theater I went with an APC H Type. Overkill? Perhaps but it represents only 2% of the system cost and I'm willing to pay a bit at the margins given my past experience.

[johnnymech]

Originally Posted by airwedge1

...and you should buy a "Monster Power" unit.

The key to knowing it's an ad is that is says to buy a Monster Power unit, and not a "power conditioner".

Next you'll tell me that NetFlix is going to start selling ad space on their envelopes.

[Slicker1]

Go Panamax. Monster is over priced, and does not react as fast to a surge. Seen that with my own eyes.

[The Guardian]

They make a difference for sure.

Here's a video of what a simple $100 line conditioner can do: http://bluecircle.com/video/pillow.mpg

Will you notice it on a (relatively) cheap system? Possibly/probably not. Unless you have really bad power (ie you don't live in a city).

I however have an $800 receiver and $500/pair front speakers and I can hear the difference between it plugged in and not plugged in. Blind tested. And I do live in a fair-sized city with fairly clean power.

As for a full-blown power conditioner... well I wouldn't use more than 10% of my budget for my home theater on it. So unless it was a higher-end setup I wouldn't bother with one.

[bageleaterkkjji]

http://www.monstercable.com/power/ go to where it says demos at the bottom it is better then the video above

[bageleaterkkjji]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ENTECH-WIDEBAND-...QQcmdZViewItem
does anyone know where to find one of these...i would not pay near that. i just want to test it plugged into a surge protector thats suppose to already have noise protection lol

[JJ]

I always wondered about this, but for my setup, it is probably unnecessary.

[Kayne314]

I thought it was all snake-oil too, until I tried it.

With my old setup I was hearing a tone emanating from my speakers. It was high pitched. You could barely hear it, but once you noticed it, it was ALL you could hear. I thought either my speakers were fried, or my receiver was dieing. A co-worker suggested I try a power cleaning power bar. I thought it wouldn't hurt to try, and at least I would know for sure.

I found a relatively inexpensive one made by Cyber-Power.(Not trying to make a commercial here, just letting you know you don't have to shell out big bucks for Monster)

Not only did it completely eliminate the tone, I immediately noticed an improvement in overall sound and picture quality. Since I upgraded my home theater, I've stayed with clean power. At least this way I'm assured to have the best PQ and AQ possible, and I can't blame crappy wiring for interfering with my home theater.

Could be the new equipment I have doesn't need clean power, but I feel better off knowing I have it.

Just my two cents here. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Russell_L]

In audiophile circles, PS Audio is a well-respected maker of power conditioners (their units actually take the power from the wall and regenerate it into clean power). I've used their P500 model with great results. Shunyata also makes great power conditioners--their Hydra line is also very well respected. I currently use the Hydra 6 in my audio system.

I've also heard the difference that a good aftermarket power cord can make. PS Audio, Shunyata, Cardas, and many other cable companies make them. (But not Monster, oddly enough.)

http://www.psaudio.com/

http://www.shunyata.com/

Russell

[Bruiser2007]

I immediately saw an improvement in video quality with subtle audio improvement with the following Tripp Lite product:

http://www.laaudiofile.com/ht1210isoctr.html

The filter works very well for me. Before I purchased this, I would see horizontal lines moving vertically on my High Def set which was annoying as heck (especially during dark scenes). Once I plugged my PS3, high def cable box, Onkyo receiver and TV in..Poof....No more noise

Now this product does not regulate the voltage but that is something I have little trouble with in my neck of the woods. I am happy with it so far and it does provide added surge protection...