Confusion on Atmos speaker layout configuration in 7.2 Onkyo receivers. Please help!

[Paulo Elias]

I have tried hard getting useful info about speaker layouts for Onkyo 7.2 Atmos receivers. Sadly Onkyo does not have a presence in my country, and the Onkyo official rep does not have the answer to the following:

7.2 Atmos AVRs from Onkyo may or may not have a separate speaker output for a pair of Atmos speakers, called Height Speakers in this case.

My current receiver has only one, and therefore it is automatically restricted to either 5.1.2 Atmos or 7.1.0 B with Surround Back speaker outputs.

Other models, including the new RZ units, feature separate Height and Surround Back speakers. So, you can connect all speakers but still restricted to 5.1.2 Atmos, since these are 7.2 receivers with only 7 power amps.

I read this info on an 7.2 Onkyo manual regarding speaker layout:

"You can connect both back speakers and
height speakers at the same time, but you
can only output audio from one of these at
a time."

Fair enough, since there are only 7 channels!

"When connected at the same time,
you can switch speakers to prioritize in the
Quick Setup menu that appears when you
press the Q button on the remote controller
(Speaker Layout function). For details, see
"7 Quick Setup menu" of "Step 3: Playing
Back"

And later, in the corresponding section:

"Speaker layout: Select the speakers to prioritize when
back speakers and height speakers are connected at
the same time."

All right then, but select what exactly? Which speakers will be "prioritized"?

Supposedly when you connect back and height speakers this setting would change 7.1.0 to 5.1.2 Atmos and vice versa automatically. They don't explain how this is accomplished though.

I have tried to find this info elsewhere. Onkyo does not allow residents outside their boundaries to send them an e-mail. I also asked for an American friend to help me out on this one. At this time he is doing whatever he can.

So I decided to post this thread here, in the hope that I find some of my forum peers to clarify this me.

Any help or input is deeply appreciated, and I thank beforehand anyone who is willing to help.

[schan1269]

Apparently you haven't actually bought the AVR yet.

On the AVR with 9 speaker posts(otherwise known as Intelligent Amp Design...yes, IAD is a feature) you go into the AVR menu and select the Atmos layout for EVERY Atmos movie you want played that way.

If...you put in a 5.1.2 setup and are not playing an Atmos disc...

DSU is a sound mode...just like IIz was.

[Scarriere]

It seems like you can switch between 7.1 and 5.1.2 on the fly. That's a pretty cool feature.

[Paulo Elias]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Apparently you haven't actually bought the AVR yet.

On the AVR with 9 speaker posts(otherwise known as Intelligent Amp Design...yes, IAD is a feature) you go into the AVR menu and select the Atmos layout for EVERY Atmos movie you want played that way.

If...you put in a 5.1.2 setup and are not playing an Atmos disc...

DSU is a sound mode...just like IIz was.

That's exactly right, and the current dollar value in Brazil has sky-rocketed, so I don't want to waste money on yet another Atmos AVR.

I understand that a 9.2 AVR would be the ideal setup for 7.1.2 Atmos, but it is too expensive for the time being, and that made me looking for alternatives.

Onkyo does not state clearly how will the user setup his receiver to achieve the automatic 5.1.2 vs. 7.1.0 layouts according to what is playing in 7.2 models.

I have been experimenting 5.1.2 with my current receiver, and I am also on the verge of finishing the assembly of a couple of Atmos enabled speakers. I am using BSA SAK6 drivers for the experiment. These are 20 degrees angled units, with a frequency response between 50 to 22kHz. They sound nice and are well built.

I am not willing to jump into conclusions as yet, but I got convincing results with these BSA speakers mounted on top of my L/R front speakers. It may not be the best for Atmos (4 speakers would be best) but I am not willing to mount overhead speakers for various reasons.

I could only pursue the replacement of my current Atmos receiver, namely the Onkyo TX-NR737, for another 7.2 model if, and only if, I could use the automatic speaker layout feature. Changing speaker layouts in the receiver's setup is quite annoying.

BTW, DSU in the 737 is compulsory! There are no provisions for disabling it. And why would I? The DSU does a remarkable job improving non-Atmos surround tracks.

[Paulo Elias]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

It seems like you can switch between 7.1 and 5.1.2 on the fly. That's a pretty cool feature.

Ok, but how is that done? As I pointed out before regrettably the manual is not clear enough of what the user has to do to set the receiver to the automatic swapping of layouts.

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

Ok, but how is that done? As I pointed out before regrettably the manual is not clear enough of what the user has to do to set the receiver to the automatic swapping of layouts.

I don't know, I'm going by what you quoted.

On my Yamaha, when I put an Atmos disc in, it automatically plays the movie in Atmos. If it isn't an Atmos disc, the yamaha plays the movie in DSU. Unless I want to pick Straight or any of the DSPs.

I'm not familiar with Onkyo, but I'd think that going into the menus and checking them out and learning your way around them is a good start. Are you able to download the manual? Having the manual while going into the menus would help for sure.

I don't understand why you would buy a product that has no support in your country? Aren't there other brands you could look at? Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer all have nice gear.

I hope you get this figured out. Good luck.

[Zhorik]

On the NR series with 7 speaker connection posts (excluding zone 2), you either connect your Dolby Atmos enabled speakers or the rear surround speakers at a time and can not switch on the fly.

On the RZ series, they contain additional posts allowing connection of the rear surround and the height speakers at the same time and switching from the quick set up menu (pressing Q on the remote > Audio > Speaker Layout).

Edit: I would advise against sacrificing a 7.1 base layer to go to 5.1.2 layout. Movies like Jurassic World that aggressively use the rear surround channels for dinosaur effects make those channels worthwhile.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

I don't know, I'm going by what you quoted.

On my Yamaha, when I put an Atmos disc in, it automatically plays the movie in Atmos. If it isn't an Atmos disc, the yamaha plays the movie in DSU. Unless I want to pick Straight or any of the DSPs.

I'm not familiar with Onkyo, but I'd think that going into the menus and checking them out and learning your way around them is a good start. Are you able to download the manual? Having the manual while going into the menus would help for sure.

I don't understand why you would buy a product that has no support in your country? Aren't there other brands you could look at? Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer all have nice gear.

I hope you get this figured out. Good luck.

You don't have a 7 channel AVR. All 7 channel AVR, Atmos is not "automatic".

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by Zhorik

On the NR series with 7 speaker connection posts (excluding zone 2), you either connect your Dolby Atmos enabled speakers or the rear surround speakers at a time and can not switch on the fly.

On the RZ series, they contain additional posts allowing connection of the rear surround and the height speakers at the same time and switching from the quick set up menu (pressing Q on the remote > Audio > Speaker Layout).

Edit: I would advise against sacrificing a 7.1 base layer to go to 5.1.2 layout. Movies like Jurassic World that aggressively use the rear surround channels for dinosaur effects make those channels worthwhile.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Originally Posted by schan1269

You don't have a 7 channel AVR. All 7 channel AVR, Atmos is not "automatic".

No, I don't. I'm not sure what you're getting at though.
Yes, Atmos discs play in Atmos when I load them into the player. A cheap Sony player for now.

*edit:
Actually I do have a 7 channel AVR. It's really 9.2 but I'm only using 7 of those channels, along with 4 pre-outs.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

Actually I do have a 7 channel AVR. It's really 9.2 but I'm only using 7 of those channels, along with 4 pre-outs.

Ergo...

YOU DON'T HAVE A 7 CHANNEL AVR.

All Atmos AVR at 9 and 11 channels are ALREADY capable of base 7 channel and 2 extra or 5 base and 4 extra...

Meaning you don't have to pick between 5.1.2 and 7.1.

Since you don't have to pick...the AVR assumes "the layout...is the layout". Don't ask me why all Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite and Integra have "the hoop" at 7 channels. When "the hoop" is removed on 9 channels.

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Ergo...

YOU DON'T HAVE A 7 CHANNEL AVR.

All Atmos AVR at 9 and 11 channels are ALREADY capable of base 7 channel and 2 extra or 5 base and 4 extra...

Meaning you don't have to pick between 5.1.2 and 7.1.

Since you don't have to pick...the AVR assumes "the layout...is the layout". Don't ask me why all Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite and Integra have "the hoop" at 7 channels. When "the hoop" is removed on 9 channels.

Yes, I do not have a 7 channel AVR. I'm using it as 7 channel, but whatever.

Even though you are yelling at me, I still don't understand what that has to do with anything.
Define "hoop" too while you're at it.

OP, sorry about derailing the thread. Never a dull moment when schan is around.
Which I don't mind at all.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

Yes, I do not have a 7 channel AVR. I'm using it as 7 channel, but whatever.

Even though you are yelling at me, I still don't understand what that has to do with anything.
Define "hoop" too while you're at it.

OP, sorry about derailing the thread. Never a dull moment when schan is around.
Which I don't mind at all.

Onkyo on their 7 channel AVR(regardless if it has IAD) require you to pick 5.1.2 as you are starting the Atmos track...or it defaults to 5.1 with DSU on 5.1 discs and 5.1 on 7.1 discs.

That is what every other 7 channel AVR does.

Why it changes at 9 channels...No one knows.

[Scarriere]

I see now.
It hasn't been an issue for me, which may be why it was difficult to wrap my brain around.

You youngsters can be so cantankerous at times.
Lol.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

I see now.
It hasn't been an issue for me, which may be why it was difficult to wrap my brain around.

You youngsters can be so cantankerous at times.
Lol.

I'm probably older than you are.

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by schan1269

I'm probably older than you are.

No, I don't think so.
It looks like your birthdate in your username. Along with some of your posts about the 70's, it kinda confirmed that to me. That'd make me older than you by just over a year.
I'm younger in spirit though!

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

No, I don't think so.
It looks like your birthdate in your username. Along with some of your posts about the 70's, it kinda confirmed that to me. That'd make me older than you by just over a year.
I'm younger in spirit though!

I was barely born in the 60s...

12/26/1969.

[Paulo Elias]

I don't understand why you would buy a product that has no support in your country? Aren't there other brands you could look at? Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer all have nice gear.

I hope you get this figured out. Good luck.

Thank you.

It is a sad state of affairs that most receiver manufacturers do not have a presence in this country except for Sony.

Why would I stick to Onkyo? Simply because it is a high class audio and allows me to set all audio parameters, such as filters, accurately. Besides they are certified THX models, and I do care about those.

On the RZ series, they contain additional posts allowing connection of the rear surround and the height speakers at the same time and switching from the quick set up menu (pressing Q on the remote > Audio > Speaker Layout).

Edit: I would advise against sacrificing a 7.1 base layer to go to 5.1.2 layout. Movies like Jurassic World that aggressively use the rear surround channels for dinosaur effects make those channels worthwhile.

That is what the manuals say, only that there is no mention of how an automatic setting is achieved. As far as the Quick Menu is concerned it implies that every time I play a specific track I must go through the QM and change the layout. If that is not correct, please tell me what am I missing.

I agree that 7.1 playback is vital to many soundtracks. That's why I am trying to contemplate both 7.1.0 and 5.1.2 if possible.

For the TX-NR737 that I own the Manual clearly states that in order to play Atmos soundtracks you must have Surround Back or Atmos speakers installed, and I quote:

Dolby Atmos

Introduced first in the cinema, Dolby Atmos brings a
revolutionary sense of dimension and immersion to the
Home Theater experience. Dolby Atmos is an adaptable
and scalable object based format that reproduces
audio as independent sounds (or objects) that can be
accurately positioned and move dynamically throughout
the 3 dimensional listening space during playback. A key
ingredient of Dolby Atmos is the introduction of a height
plane of sound above the listener.

Surround back speakers or height speakers need to be
installed.

This listening mode can be selected only if the input
signal is Dolby Atmos.

By reading this one may assume that the use of Surround Back speakers will emulate Dolby Atmos regardless of the presence of Height (Top or Dolby Enabled) speakers installed.

This may seem somewhat confusing because we assume that Surround Back units are not Atmos speakers. On the other hand, Dolby Atmos is described by Dolby as an scalable codec, meaning it is able to adapt itself to the number of speakers installed.

Apparently 7.1.0 will playback Atmos competently. In most of my experimental auditions the sound coming from 7.1.0 B is not that much different from Atmos enabled speakers in 5.1.2.

Ideally they should both work together somehow.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

Thank you.

It is a sad state of affairs that most receiver manufacturers do not have a presence in this country except for Sony.

Why would I stick to Onkyo? Simply because it is a high class audio and allows me to set all audio parameters, such as filters, accurately. Besides they are certified THX models, and I do care about those.



That is what the manuals say, only that there is no mention of how an automatic setting is achieved. As far as the Quick Menu is concerned it implies that every time I play a specific track I must go through the QM and change the layout. If that is not correct, please tell me what am I missing.

I agree that 7.1 playback is vital to many soundtracks. That's why I am trying to contemplate both 7.1.0 and 5.1.2 if possible.

For the TX-NR737 that I own the Manual clearly states that in order to play Atmos soundtracks you must have Surround Back or Atmos speakers installed, and I quote:



By reading this one may assume that the use of Surround Back speakers will emulate Dolby Atmos regardless of the presence of Height (Top or Dolby Enabled) speakers installed.

This may seem somewhat confusing because we assume that Surround Back units are not Atmos speakers. On the other hand, Dolby Atmos is described by Dolby as an scalable codec, meaning it is able to adapt itself to the number of speakers installed.

Apparently 7.1.0 will playback Atmos competently. In most of my experimental auditions the sound coming from 7.1.0 B is not that much different from Atmos enabled speakers in 5.1.2.

Ideally they should both work together somehow.

The manual states rear or height "required" because the base track of Atmos is 7.1.

Essentially all they are saying is "there must be a reason you bought a 7 channel AVR".

[Zhorik]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

[Show spoiler]Thank you.

It is a sad state of affairs that most receiver manufacturers do not have a presence in this country except for Sony.

Why would I stick to Onkyo? Simply because it is a high class audio and allows me to set all audio parameters, such as filters, accurately. Besides they are certified THX models, and I do care about those.

That is what the manuals say, only that there is no mention of how an automatic setting is achieved. As far as the Quick Menu is concerned it implies that every time I play a specific track I must go through the QM and change the layout. If that is not correct, please tell me what am I missing.

I agree that 7.1 playback is vital to many soundtracks. That's why I am trying to contemplate both 7.1.0 and 5.1.2 if possible.

For the TX-NR737 that I own the Manual clearly states that in order to play Atmos soundtracks you must have Surround Back or Atmos speakers installed, and I quote:



By reading this one may assume that the use of Surround Back speakers will emulate Dolby Atmos regardless of the presence of Height (Top or Dolby Enabled) speakers installed.

This may seem somewhat confusing because we assume that Surround Back units are not Atmos speakers. On the other hand, Dolby Atmos is described by Dolby as an scalable codec, meaning it is able to adapt itself to the number of speakers installed.

Apparently 7.1.0 will playback Atmos competently. In most of my experimental auditions the sound coming from 7.1.0 B is not that much different from Atmos enabled speakers in 5.1.2.

Ideally they should both work together somehow.

With regards to the TX-NR737 receiver (which you state you have purchased):

The manual states "Surround back speakers or height speakers need to be installed."

The key word there is "or" as you will manually connect either the rear surround or height speaker wire to that same post.

The manual on page 9 under step 4, has an image which shows where you will select if you have connected rear surround or height speakers as shown below:
Image.jpg

Thus you can have 7.1 or 5.1.2 but can not change on the fly as you will need to manually change the speaker cable on the rear of the receiver and then change the setting as shown in the quick menu.

[Paulo Elias]

Thus you can have 7.1 or 5.1.2 but can not change on the fly as you will need to manually change the speaker cable on the rear of the receiver and then change the setting as shown in the quick menu.

Zhorik, what you said is the reason why I am contemplating the investment on a new receiver.

Up to model 737 one cannot connect the Height and SB speakers at the same time. From 837/838 onwards there are separate speaker outputs, but again nothing is clearly said on the manual about HOW the user can have 7.1.0 B switched to 5.1.2 automatically and vice-versa.

Clearly, it is possible to do that manually, via Quick Menu, and I hope you will agree that this is rather unproductive and annoying!

As a side note:
I would like to thank all the answers thus far, but sadly none of them managed to address my help request. I am, on the other hand, still waiting for a contact from Onkyo to a friend of mine. If they come with useful info, I will surely post it here.