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Old 02-21-2016, 04:44 PM   #1
SlaughterX SlaughterX is offline
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Default 4K UHD BD via PC?

Can a PC with a good GPU (like the 980ti) play UHD BD-ROMs? Does it require a special type of BD-ROM< are there any out or any software that supports it? I just ordered a new PC with the above GPU which is fully 4k capable, but I'm not trying to pay another $400 for a dedicated UHD BD player...
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Old 02-21-2016, 05:08 PM   #2
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaughterX View Post
Can a PC with a good GPU (like the 980ti) play UHD BD-ROMs? Does it require a special type of BD-ROM< are there any out or any software that supports it? I just ordered a new PC with the above GPU which is fully 4k capable, but I'm not trying to pay another $400 for a dedicated UHD BD player...
Still too soon for PC software support but as far as hardware I can tell you

- 980ti is a great video card but no video card that I know can do hardware decoding of HEVC 10-bit (that is what's stored on these discs)

- So you should have a PC with a 980ti (because HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 is required) but more importantly a great CPU (i5, i7) for software decoding

- About the BD Drive: so far the only one that seems to be able to READ (but not PLAY yet) these disc is this: (THE BLACK BARE DRIVE)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-WH16NS40-In...ords=lg+burner

- Then you have to wait for Cyberlink to release a new version of PowerDVD compatible with UHD-BD...
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:02 PM   #3
SlaughterX SlaughterX is offline
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It has a Intel i7 6700K processor quad-core [4.0GHz, 8MB Shared Cache]... I imagine that should do the trick. So now we play the waiting game for software before I bite on that drive. That's a BD burner right? Seems like a good deal.
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:08 PM   #4
applemac applemac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
- About the BD Drive: so far the only one that seems to be able to READ (but not PLAY yet) these disc is this: (THE BLACK BARE DRIVE)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-WH16NS40-In...ords=lg+burner.
For once I already own something with rare features/capabilities.
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:22 PM   #5
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Originally Posted by SlaughterX View Post
It has a Intel i7 6700K processor quad-core [4.0GHz, 8MB Shared Cache]... I imagine that should do the trick. So now we play the waiting game for software before I bite on that drive. That's a BD burner right? Seems like a good deal.
Amazing CPU (I have the 6700 non-k)!

Yes it's a BD Burner (it reads and writes also BDXL 100/128 GB)

The drive seems to be compatible with Fox Discs (BD-66GB), it'a new revision (LATE 2015) of an older drive with the same name, that's why I said to check it's the BLACK one. The original version was more like grey/blue... The older version doesn't work with UHD discs...

OLD MODEL (2012)



NEW MODEL (2015)

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Old 02-21-2016, 07:55 PM   #6
geiger167 geiger167 is offline
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Not strictly true about the GPU, I'm currently using a Geforce GTX 960 which does offer HEVC hardware decoding (currently using Media Player Classic software)
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:00 PM   #7
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
Not strictly true about the GPU, I'm currently using a Geforce GTX 960 which does offer HEVC hardware decoding (currently using Media Player Classic software)
HEVC Decoding ≠ HEVC 10-bit decoding

Even my Intel Skylake integrated GPU does 8-bit HEVC decoding but 10-bit is a completely different matter....
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:07 PM   #8
geiger167 geiger167 is offline
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I've tested it with 10-bit decoded files, playing in vlc without hardware accelation uses 86% of cpu (i5 four cores) using hardware decoding in MPC uses 1.5% CPU, it makes a huge difference

file tested;
Jimix : Put Your Hands Up
Resolution : 3840x2160
File size : 633 Mo
Duration : 03min 55sec
Format : TS
Codec : HEVC
Overall bit rate : 22. Mb/s
Bit depth : 10 bits
Frame rate : 50 fps
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:13 PM   #9
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
I've tested it with 10-bit decoded files, playing in vlc without hardware accelation uses 86% of cpu (i5 four cores) using hardware decoding in MPC uses 1.5% CPU, it makes a huge difference

file tested;
Jimix : Put Your Hands Up
Resolution : 3840x2160
File size : 633 Mo
Duration : 03min 55sec
Format : TS
Codec : HEVC
Overall bit rate : 22. Mb/s
Bit depth : 10 bits
Frame rate : 50 fps

Maybe a driver update enabled 10-bit DXVA profile for your video card. That's great news, you are very lucky
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:27 PM   #10
applemac applemac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
Amazing CPU (I have the 6700 non-k)!

Yes it's a BD Burner (it reads and writes also BDXL 100/128 GB)

The drive seems to be compatible with Fox Discs (BD-66GB), it'a new revision (LATE 2015) of an older drive with the same name, that's why I said to check it's the BLACK one. The original version was more like grey/blue... The older version doesn't work with UHD discs...

OLD MODEL (2012)

[Show spoiler]


NEW MODEL (2015)

[Show spoiler]
Darn, I don't have the updated model.
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:21 PM   #11
ldm ldm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
- 980ti is a great video card but no video card that I know can do hardware decoding of HEVC 10-bit (that is what's stored on these discs)

Actually the Second Generation Maxwell GM02 cards have full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode source, so that's only:
* GTX 950
* GTX 960

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
- So you should have a PC with a 980ti (because HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 is required) but more importantly a great CPU (i5, i7) for software decoding
I have a 6700K and it can not smoothly software decode 10-Bit 3840x2160 30fps 128 Mbit/s HEVC (basically the UHD spec that can go upto 60fps), using a test file from here.

Just wait for Intel to release Kaby Lake which has full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode if you don't plan on using a capable GPU, source, and you won't even have to get an expensive CPU then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
I've tested it with 10-bit decoded files, playing in vlc without hardware acceleration uses 86% of cpu (i5 four cores) using hardware decoding in MPC uses 1.5% CPU, it makes a huge difference
Try playback something over 100 Mbit/s, e.g. from here. I think you'll see you can't do it smoothly in software, as my 6700K can't.

There is a workaround however, which is to transcode to AVC (even if you double or triple the bitrate the HEVC file was at) and then hardware decoding the AVC.

Last edited by ldm; 02-22-2016 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:39 PM   #12
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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128 mbit/s HEVC is insane bitrate, I don't think I would never need to decode a file like that in real-life....
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:58 PM   #13
geiger167 geiger167 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldm View Post
Actually the Second Generation Maxwell GM02 cards have full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode source, so that's the GTX 950 and GTX 960 only.



I have a 6700K and it can not smoothly software decode 10-Bit 3840x2160 30fps 128 Mbit/s HEVC (basically the UHD spec that can go upto 60fps), using a test file from here.

Just wait for Intel to release Kaby Lake which has full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode if you don't plan on using a capable GPU, source, and you won't even have to get an expensive CPU then.



Try playback something over 100 Mbit/s, e.g. from here. I think you'll see you can't do it smoothly in software, as my 6700K can't.

There is a workaround however, which is to transcode to AVC (even if you double or triple the bitrate the HEVC file was at) and then hardware decoding the AVC.
Played the 100mbit file you suggested in link with no issues(jellyfish-100-mbps-hd-hevc), cpu never rose about 1% for MPC. Suggests UHD playback shouldn't be an issue for the card ?
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:34 PM   #14
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
Played the 100mbit file you suggested in link with no issues(jellyfish-100-mbps-hd-hevc), cpu never rose about 1% for MPC. Suggests UHD playback shouldn't be an issue for the card ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
Played the 100mbit file you suggested in link with no issues(jellyfish-100-mbps-hd-hevc), cpu never rose about 1% for MPC. Suggests UHD playback shouldn't be an issue for the card ?
Not al all, you are set...

EDIT:

I made some calculations based on the disc sizes that we know:

The Martian main movie m2ts file (similar audio tracks inside)

BD= 38.8 Gigabytes (of a BD-50 disc)
UHD BD= 48.8 Gigabytes (of a BD-66 disc)


= 26% bigger

BD Bitrate= 27 mbit/s (AVC)

+26%=

UHD Bitrate= 34 mbit/s (HEVC)


Even with a full BD-100 disc there's no way the encoding reaches anything near 100 mbit/s. HEVC was invented to keep file size down....

Last edited by MisterXDTV; 02-21-2016 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:29 AM   #15
rodrigob rodrigob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldm View Post
Actually the Second Generation Maxwell GM02 cards have full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode source, so that's the GTX 950 and GTX 960 only.



I have a 6700K and it can not smoothly software decode 10-Bit 3840x2160 30fps 128 Mbit/s HEVC (basically the UHD spec that can go upto 60fps), using a test file from here.

Just wait for Intel to release Kaby Lake which has full fixed function 10-Bit HEVC decode if you don't plan on using a capable GPU, source, and you won't even have to get an expensive CPU then.



Try playback something over 100 Mbit/s, e.g. from here. I think you'll see you can't do it smoothly in software, as my 6700K can't.

There is a workaround however, which is to transcode to AVC (even if you double or triple the bitrate the HEVC file was at) and then hardware decoding the AVC.
Even the 400 Mbit/s plays ok with the GTX 960
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:49 AM   #16
ldm ldm is offline
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Originally Posted by geiger167 View Post
Played the 100mbit file you suggested in link with no issues(jellyfish-100-mbps-hd-hevc), cpu never rose about 1% for MPC. Suggests UHD playback shouldn't be an issue for the card ?
Yes you have a GTX960 it can decode 4k HEVC 10-bit (specifically the Main10 profile). You'll be able to playback every possible UHD Blu-ray disk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
128 mbit/s HEVC is insane bitrate, I don't think I would never need to decode a file like that in real-life....

Even with a full BD-100 disc there's no way the encoding reaches anything near 100 mbit/s. HEVC was invented to keep file size down....
What?! Yes you would encounter that in real life as that is possible under the UHD Blu-ray spec. Did you even look at the source i linked?

On September 5, 2014, the Blu-ray Disc Association revealed that the future 4K Blu-ray Disc format will support 4K UHD (3840x2160 resolution) video at frame rates up to 60 frames per second. The standard will encode videos under the High Efficiency Video Coding standard. 4K Blu-ray Discs will support both a higher dynamic range by increasing the color depth to 10-bit per color and a greater color gamut by using the Rec. 2020 color space using HEVC. The 4K-Blu-ray specification allows for three disc sizes, each with their own data rate: 50 GB with 82 Mbit/s, 66 GB with 108 Mbit/s, and 100 GB with 128 Mbit/s.

Thus if you are not able to smoothly playback 4k, 10-bit, 60fps, 128 Mbit/s, HEVC, (the worst case scenario) then you can not be confident that you'll be able to play every UHD Blu-ray disk produced. Just because The Martian does not use UHD Blu-rays to their full potential does not mean other movies won't.

Last edited by ldm; 02-22-2016 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:59 AM   #17
dvdmike dvdmike is offline
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It's only true HD and 10 bit 4k combined that slows mine down
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:43 AM   #18
bailey1987 bailey1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
Amazing CPU (I have the 6700 non-k)!

Yes it's a BD Burner (it reads and writes also BDXL 100/128 GB)

The drive seems to be compatible with Fox Discs (BD-66GB), it'a new revision (LATE 2015) of an older drive with the same name, that's why I said to check it's the BLACK one. The original version was more like grey/blue... The older version doesn't work with UHD discs...

OLD MODEL (2012)



NEW MODEL (2015)


I'm furious. I only got this drive in August just past and I have the older model.

Make sure you get a GPU with HEVC decoding, I think the only Nvidia one that has it is still the Geforce GTX 960, which is the one I have. Don't forget about the HDMI port on the back as well, at best it will only be 2.0, to be safe I would wait until they have one with 2.0a on.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:33 AM   #19
MisterXDTV MisterXDTV is online now
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Originally Posted by bailey1987 View Post
I'm furious. I only got this drive in August just past and I have the older model.
The new model came out in September/October, that's why....

The maximum bitrate in the specs is just theoretical, 130 mb/s HEVC would be probably enough for a 8K file...

Last edited by MisterXDTV; 02-22-2016 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:47 PM   #20
bruceames bruceames is offline
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What kind of enclosure should I get for this? I have an iMac (so no place to install an internal drive obviously) but am running Windows on it.
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